SkySoaringMagpie Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html The dark side of puppy farming Stephanie Gardiner March 16, 2012 - 5:01PM Read later Lucky dog ... Gidget now and, inset, how she was when found in squalid conditions at a Sydney breeder. Photo: Animal Welfare League NSW More on puppy farms Among 42 dogs found in a dark, dank, maggot-filled shed was Gidget, a miniature poodle with fur so matted and dirty it caused painful eye and ear infections. Looking at Gidget today, with her round belly and manicured fur, it's hard to believe she was ever the victim of a cruel backyard breeder in Sydney's north-west. Advertisement: Story continues below Gidget and the other dogs were recently seized from the property in Londonderry by Animal Welfare League NSW inspector Ian Hughes. The dogs had no water in their cages, which were filled with faeces and maggots. "It was quite dark ... there was just some light in there coming through some slats," Mr Hughes said. "You can imagine the temperature in the middle of summer ... you could be talking about 50 or 55 degrees inside. It's hot enough to kill animals." The Londonderry backyard breeder was fined more than $3000 in Penrith Local Court on February 27, for offences including "fail to exercise care", according to court papers. Mr Hughes and the inspectors regularly dealt with similar cases. "You go inside these houses and the smell stays on your feet for weeks; you wouldn't believe the squalor," he said. "I know there are hundreds of animals out there that I will never come across and that's heartbreaking. "People will never see them. "They're the ones that keep you awake at night." The Animal Welfare League has released details of a proposed breeder licensing scheme that could put a stop to cruel backyard breeders, puppy farms and anyone keeping large groups of dogs in a state of neglect. The scheme would require anyone in NSW selling or transferring a dog - including those online - to quote a breeder licence number. The licence number would be given to breeders whose premises have been inspected for a fee of between $300 and $500, which would go towards funding the cost of all inspections. Inspectors would also monitor animal welfare standards by making annual unannounced visits to breeders. Under the proposed user-pays scheme, people who buy dogs would be able to check on where they came from by using an online register. Animal Welfare League NSW chief executive, Tim Vasudeva, said the Londonderry case also highlighted the need for tougher legislation against people who are keeping animals in poor conditions. Mr Vasudeva said there were many good breeders out there, but a licensing scheme had to include all dog breeders or people would continue to abuse the system. "At this point in time the system that we have is not an effective one, as there is no transparency around where puppies have come from and people don't know if they're supporting cruelty when they adopt a new puppy." Mr Vasudeva said the scheme would stop cruel breeders and puppy farms from slipping past authorities. "We were lucky to find these dogs at Londonderry thanks to a tip-off from the public, but many more dogs are still trapped in conditions just like it. "The scheme would mean these cruel operators are no longer able to hide." The proposal is before the NSW companion animals taskforce, which is soon to release a discussion paper. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html#ixzz1pGuOEsar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) A license is a temporary revocable permit that allows the licensee to have something, or to do something that would be illegal to have, or to do without the license. It makes dog breeding illegal. It turns over all ownership, and use rights to the licensing agency which can at any time, inspect, confiscate,suspend, revoke, or halt issuance of the license. Licensure is a taking by government without compensation. If you live in a city, town, municipality,county, or state that requires dog breeder licensing, then the act of dog breeding has been made illegal without permission of government. they can at any time change the rules and leave you unable to comply. When we agree to license ourselves to breed dogs we agree to give over our ownership and breeder right to the licensing agency, which can at any time revoke our use rights. We grant them absolute control over our animals. They can come onto our real property, and remove our transitory property (dogs) without due process of law. These people where doing disgusting things and were found and prosecuted - how is any of us paying 500 bucks going to stop them before they are found and prosecuted? Edited March 16, 2012 by Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 (edited) http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html "The scheme would mean these cruel operators are no longer able to hide." The proposal is before the NSW companion animals taskforce, which is soon to release a discussion paper. Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/the-dark-side-of-puppy-farming-20120316-1vaav.html#ixzz1pGuOEsar Except that what these people were doing was in breach of how many existing laws yet they managed to hide it for how long? But making some more rules will stop them, cause of course these sort of ratbags wouldn't dream of breeding a dog without complying with all the rules... :rolleyes: Really rational and well thought out. Dear oh dear. More rules for the already compliant. Edited March 16, 2012 by Alyosha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Of course people will be able to hide. All they have to do is not advertise in the paper or on the Net. Or are these inspectors going to police shopping centres and suburban shops and vet surgeries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We all know that throwing more legislation at a problem works great, right? So much easier than actually policing the current laws - and they can make money from the scheme as well... win-win... I have a novel idea... why not actually put some funding into the policing of the CURRENT laws? RSPCA NSW made a large profit last year ($12 million was the number bandied about) - yet they don't have enough inspectors on the ground to respond to calls about people flaunting the animal welfare laws currently in force... no idea what the AWL NSW financial situation is, but they don't have as big an operation as the RSPCA, or the public's knowledge that they can do inspections also. Steve has the right of it... A license is a temporary revocable permit that allows the licensee to have something, or to do something that would be illegal to have, or to do without the license. It makes dog breeding illegal. It turns over all ownership, and use rights to the licensing agency which can at any time, inspect, confiscate,suspend, revoke, or halt issuance of the license. Licensure is a taking by government without compensation. If you live in a city, town, municipality,county, or state that requires dog breeder licensing, then the act of dog breeding has been made illegal without permission of government. they can at any time change the rules and leave you unable to comply.When we agree to license ourselves to breed dogs we agree to give over our ownership and breeder right to the licensing agency, which can at any time revoke our use rights. We grant them absolute control over our animals. They can come onto our real property, and remove our transitory property (dogs) without due process of law. This proposal is only going to affect those already doing the right thing... in the most negative of ways... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I was reading a statics of australia. we have over 23,019,000 million people in this country as at 1st Jan 12. and as steve said there are only 4,500 odd registered purebred dog owners in this country. That mean that only 0.02% of the population are mebers of their Canine councle. just because some 4,500 people are registered members of all the state canine bodies does not mean they all breed, many are members because they want to show. or are thinking of breeding. some are members because they used to breed and or show and like to keep getting their newsletters. I remember there used to be a yearly list of how many puppies were registered in any given year. anyone know where these figures can be accessed? How many million dogs and cats does the rescues say they get every year? Somehow it doesn't seem to be of interest the attacks re legistation are being aimed at what was already a minority group and now is nearing extiction as others are suggesting. ? I causes one to wonder why there is such focus on the minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 I was reading a statics of australia. we have over 23,019,000 million people in this country as at 1st Jan 12. and as steve said there are only 4,500 odd registered purebred dog owners in this country. That mean that only 0.02% of the population are mebers of their Canine councle. just because some 4,500 people are registered members of all the state canine bodies does not mean they all breed, many are members because they want to show. or are thinking of breeding. some are members because they used to breed and or show and like to keep getting their newsletters. I remember there used to be a yearly list of how many puppies were registered in any given year. anyone know where these figures can be accessed? How many million dogs and cats does the rescues say they get every year? Somehow it doesn't seem to be of interest the attacks re legistation are being aimed at what was already a minority group and now is nearing extiction as others are suggesting. ? I causes one to wonder why there is such focus on the minority. No - you have interpreted the numbers wrong - there are about 30,000 members of the CC Australia wide but only about 4,500 are breeding registered pups Australia wide - we dropped about 2,000 registered breeders in 2011 The figures can be accessed on the ANKC website. This has registration numbers of all breeds, state stats and litters bred and members by how many breeders australia wide etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 17, 2012 Share Posted March 17, 2012 Look - there a few things in life which are introduced as laws which dont have un intended consequences .Sometimes when they make these laws they know what those consequences my be but the chances they could know what they may be if they are only coming at a problem from one perspective are greater. Some bright spark decided that if we are to ensure dogs don't suffer in commercial breeding and rearing establishments that they needed to draft a whole pile of things every breeder would have to do. They thought about what things made it easier to keep a clean environment and based their thinking on how pounds and boarding kennels operate - no one seemed to get that keeping a dog on your property for years and now and then allowing her to have a litter is vastly different and requires different methods of managing them in order for them to be able to act like dogs and live healthy lives. No one really considered how a person knowing their dogs individually taking into account so many variables including breed and size etc that they would need to consider how many run together and play together and sleep together. As soon as I say this we can all see that keeping a dog in a shelter and a boarding kennel are of a temporary nature, they have many different animals coming and going and they dont really have to consider their long term health and how their environment will impact on them.they have to have policies and procedures which limit the risks of what they are doing to keep the dogs safe and prevent over crowding fighting etc. These codes and regs and laws were pushed by animal welfare and animal rights with little or no understanding or experience in what things a breeder really does have to manage and live with on a daily basis and there seems to a general lack of desire for them to learn about that - they see a problem - these people keeping their animals in disgusting conditions - assume the cause and assume the solution without full information. So lets look at the unintended consequences of drafting laws and codes and regs which don't fully consider the potential unintended consequences which are already introduced in various parts of this country. If a dog breeder who owns more than a couple of dogs on properties where large scale breeding kennels can be erected is given the choice in how they would keep their animals its my opinion most would want to keep them in yard like environments appropriate to the size required for their breed and the numbers they want to live together at any given time. they would want to provide them with shade , dirt to dig in and earth to stand and run on ,sunshine to lay in ,wading pools, things to climb on jump over hide under etc where the breeder can walk in and throw a ball and interact with them at various times of the day. Where they can live as a pack in numbers which the breeder determines is best for them , the management and their breed. Where they can bark at each other, strangers, and all else without going deaf in an enclosed building etc. Where at night they can snuggle up together within their pack. Where a whelping area with easy cleaned surfaces because its a confined area etc is used only for a very short period of say 3 to 5 weeks to whelp puppies. More healthy less costly to build - where dogs can live like dogs and not prisoners in cells on concrete floors . Where they are not over medicated or their immune systems are not compromised by generic instructions on vet treatments Then look at the laws and mandatory codes in - say Victoria. if people come onto your property in Victoria in the middle of the night with cameras and your dogs are not locked up - only ever 1 or 2 in each pen regardless of how many you own you are breaching the mandatory codes. Try and get a DA in any state to breed dogs on your property and then see the requirements for housing etc is based on these codes which are more suited to pounds and boarding kennels. So in order to keep your dogs in areas you dont want to keep them in you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars on permanent non porous flooring etc ,lock them up at night singly or in pairs . then we hear screams about them being kept in stalls and factory type situations - but its the laws which are making them keep them in those situations. So some people who don't have the money or who are renting or who just dont think its good for their dogs and of course some who couldnt care less what is best for their dogs but dont want to spend the money start to get paranoid and go underground and do things designed to avoid detection .They dont register their dogs and will find all manner of ways around any laws designed to track them and locate where they are. the question becomes - would more rather than less breeders keep their dogs in yard like environments which is better for the dogs rather than hide because they have to keep them in old sheds and shipping containers because they cant or wont comply with codes and laws? I spoke with a large commercial breeder about this some weeks ago - they own 200 dogs and they are in kennel blocks - in my opinion its horrible but it is fully licenced and they have all the permits and pass all of the inspections. These breeders are as upset about having to keep their dogs in these conditions as most of us are looking at it but if they do what they want to do and what they think is best for their dogs they cannot operate because they dont fit the codes and laws. Its not all easy to analyse and find solutions for but usually there are other hidden agendas - money or zealotry Would seem to me if we really are all coming at it from the same base - trying to work out what is best for the dogs the great divide has to come together with each group assumed to have the best interests of dogs at heart and try to find a realistic solution which doesn't become part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I would be interested in how many of these registered puppies from registered breeders actually end up in rescue every year? I may have a distorted image in my head but it seems to me it is not the purebreds you usually find in the pounds and rescues across the country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 I would be interested in how many of these registered puppies from registered breeders actually end up in rescue every year? I may have a distorted image in my head but it seems to me it is not the purebreds you usually find in the pounds and rescues across the country? But the fact is you cant stop some dogs being dumped and you cant tell if more of less via percentage is dumped which are purebred really or not because we breed far less than any other group. If ours get dumped in the same ratio per those bred as any other you would expect to see limited numbers in comparison because we breed less. - It doesnt matter because no matter how hard you screen them no matter what you do now and then someone is an idiot , someone has no choice because their lives have changed but to place their dog in rescue. The change has had a focus on breeding and where they are sold but no matter how many are bred no matter where or how they are sold until you address the real problem which is the owners the problem will remain. It is the owners who buy them, the owners who live with them and the owners who decide to chuck them away. Reality is just as many good owners exists regardless of where they purchased their puppies from but they are bogged into stopping pppies in pet shops and stopping them being bred as if this is the only issue we are dealing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smilerz Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 Congratulations Steve you sound like you are on my wave length. Do these groups that make up these rules on how a dog should be bred, live, eat, whelp etc know that it better for the dog to be in a family home environment than be locked up in kennels going out of their mind. Pups reared from bitches with this sort of behavior have a knock on effect on the pups. Hence why we have so many behavioral issues when the pup leaves the kennels and end up being discarded into pounds and shelters. I will happily help you draw up recommendations for different styles of breeding so that each breeder can individualise their breeding practices but stay within a set regime which can be easily understood and administered by council, government departments etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 spotted on another forum (Quote) Found Female Cairn terrier Will be taking vet tomorrow. To check if microchiped If you are the owner Please describe dog And will give contact number to dog owner. Someone must own this lovely dog. The people who found her took her to vets today. She's not microchipped nor been desexed. She ever has exscaped from home or even out of car or ute. She is a young dog, very happy at finders place. Please if you know anyone who's lost a cairn terrier or similar please post with description of dog. I'm happy to say this young girl owners have been found. It's believed she escaped yard as inappropriate fencing was up. Owners will rectify. (Quote) now I wonder why I suspect it was not bred by a registered breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 (edited) Except that what these people were doing was in breach of how many existing laws yet they managed to hide it for how long? But making some more rules will stop them, cause of course these sort of ratbags wouldn't dream of breeding a dog without complying with all the rules... :rolleyes: Really rational and well thought out. Dear oh dear. More rules for the already compliant. I've agreed with you in another thread about this point. Step 1 in combating puppy farming activities is to look at all existing laws. And if any of them can address the problem. If so, how can they be better enforced. Or even just tweaked, in some way. And that includes looking at consumer law which may need to be expanded to cover the welfare issues at critical point-of-sale. UQ research mentioned a significant issue in 'dumping' of dogs was that they did not live up to the owners' 'expectations'. But it's first necessary to look at what is wanted in the care & breeding of dogs. If that were done, AWL NSW would find that making 'breeders' pay $500 a year is actually encouraging large-scale operations where commercial aims trump socialisation. If the AWL NSW is trying to get dogs to 'stick' in pet homes, their 'plan' is in the opposite direction. It encourages 'farming' approaches. So they need to draw on more expert advice. And present a plan that encourages & supports puppies being bred in more 'human family' context. Once again, UQ research pointed to the vital importance of socialising puppies (& breeding them from a well- socialised mother dog). Puppies coming from such a background were far less likely to develop the characteristics linked with high dumping rate. Edited March 24, 2012 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 People who push these kinds of laws seem to know little about dogs yet have the mindset that they know everything about dogs. I don't think they would listen to anyone because they already know it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jade~Harley~Bella Posted March 23, 2012 Share Posted March 23, 2012 Sounds good on paper. But yet again only the responsible will comply. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 24, 2012 Share Posted March 24, 2012 People who push these kinds of laws seem to know little about dogs I agree with you, Sheridan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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