Why Would A Full Grown Dog Attack A Puppy?

[BlackJaq]

I was just reading someone's comment about a friendly dog greeting stragers with his hackles up and such...

My dog does that, too!

She has met several nasty dogs whose owners were convinced they would "be fine" with her when she was only little, and even though she hasn't become DA or even developed fear agression issues, she does always raise her hackles when meeting a new dog, even whilst wagging and even though, once she has categorized the other dog as "friendly" she will play bow, hackles go down and such, initially the hackles ALWAYS come up.

I never really thought about this so much, as she lets them down once friendly interaction starts, but other people seem to become very fearful of the hackles (no lip lifting, growling, or other signs of agression involved, she is very submissive and will roll over right away in submission if the other dog becomes pushy, will turn her face away with the "submissive"-face on, hold her ears in the submissive pose etc). I have to say, those people who freak out at the hackles are generally pretty un-versed with dogs, but it seems that to them, an attack appears imminent... Despite anything I say and even though Foxy will play without incident after the initial meeting.

So what is the go with the hackles?

[Salukifan]

I was just reading someone's comment about a friendly dog So what is the go with the hackles?

It means your dog is in a high state of arousal.. that's all. Doesn't necessarily relate to aggression but your dog's responses (in whatever manner she responds) will be triggered more easily in that state.

[Staffyluv]

I was just reading someone's comment about a friendly dog So what is the go with the hackles?

It means your dog is in a high state of arousal.. that's all. Doesn't necessarily relate to aggression but your dog's responses (in whatever manner she responds) will be triggered more easily in that state.

This is something I learned at the dog park - I always thought it meant that the dog was not happy but that is not the case at all... The humongous labrador at the park we go to does it all the time and he is a really sweet boy, just really excited. But not so excited that he is over the top - I guess you have to see it to realise he is just really happy to see everyone.

[BlackJaq]

Ah, righto, yes that sounds about right.

She is incredibly happy to play with other dogs, loves them all, but is not rude about her excitement, no jumping on people or bowling over other dogs. I can imagine that holding back all the exuberance and her trying to be civilized in case the dog is unfriendly is showing in the hackles popping up, you can tell how hard it is for her to contain the energy.

To start with I was pretty shocked at how strongly some people reacted to the hackles, they didn't seem agressive to me at all and she was really careful about all her first meetings, possibly due to bad experiences with unknown dogs in the past.

Unfortunately she is not allowed to play with very tiny baby puppies because she categorizes them as "kittens" and pokes them with her (big, heavy) paws, expecting them to have claws and be fiesty like kittens (her kitten "Eddie" taught her well lol). This is obviously not an appropriate way to deal with very young dogs at all so she is only allowed to play with them once they get older and she recognizes them as dogs, not cats lol

Edited March 16, 2012 by BlackJaq

[Aidan3]

I was just reading someone's comment about a friendly dog So what is the go with the hackles?

It means your dog is in a high state of arousal.. that's all. Doesn't necessarily relate to aggression but your dog's responses (in whatever manner she responds) will be triggered more easily in that state.

This big GSD I'm fostering has his hackles up greeting other dogs, it scares a few owners but he's a big sweetie and very considerate of other dogs :laugh: As he's got used to meeting other dogs he's doing it less and less.

[Chequeredblackdog]

Poor little pup. Its sad that dog parks usually aren't much fun.

The people at my dog park are (mostly) pretty slack. Most don't even bring a lead, stand/sit around and chat, and usually the dogs have little to no recall. My guys are quite polite and very friendly and have very good recall, I always get comments like "wow they're so smart!" "wish my dog would come back like that" etc. Its sad.

Luckily most of the other dogs are friendly and mean no harm (and my Kelpie who is the one who is more likely to rub somedog up the wrong way, can outrun pretty much everything except the friendly whippet! :laugh: ), the owners don't seem to know/care much about responsible dog-ownership.

One that springs to mind with this story is the young couple who had a 3 year old entire male boxer and a 3(? max) month old female boxer. The couple never has leads (or collars) with them and if they are there, it's guaranteed you wil see the dogs WELL before you see the people they would have to be AT LEAST 100-200 metres ahead, ad this is in a almost fenced huge dog park next to a road, oh and with a large, often strong flowing creek meandering through it! It's sad, but I'm just waiting to hear the the poor little boxer pup has drowned/been run over/ attacked....

Sorry for the long winded reply

[sallyandtex]

Oh thats a terrible thing to happen. Poor pup.

i too grapple with the reasons.

Sally is now 2 1/2, but is still really submissive and rolls on her back with legs apart for any unknown dogs, or those higher on the echelon :laugh:

It is usually a good move, and when the greetings are over, most amicable dogs have a play.

On a few occasions however, there has been a couple of dogs her own breed/size or ACD that go into attack mode straight away...even with Sally on her back .

Never had any blood or marks, but aggressive nonetheless.

i have always wondered why these dogs would attack something so non-threatening, but came to the conclusion that they are just plain bullies, and have not been trained by the owners that it is bad behaviour (ie they like their dogs like that )

[Salukifan]

i have always wondered why these dogs would attack something so non-threatening, but came to the conclusion that they are just plain bullies, and have not been trained by the owners that it is bad behaviour (ie they like their dogs like that )

To a dog it's not generally bullying and no amount of training will make an aggressive dog behave anything but aggressively in certain situations.

Aggression is something you simply manage. Desensitisation is possible but its always lurking in the background. The fact that some owners don't bother to manage it is what keeps me out of public dog parks with a population greater than zero.

[Aidan3]

i have always wondered why these dogs would attack something so non-threatening, but came to the conclusion that they are just plain bullies, and have not been trained by the owners that it is bad behaviour (ie they like their dogs like that )

I think you're probably guilty of projecting your own values onto dogs here. I see a lot of dogs with owners who are actively seeking a solution to their dogs aggressive behaviours, they all learn how to manage their dogs but they don't all end up with lovely, sociable dogs who wouldn't hurt a puppy.

[WeimMe]

Those pooor owners - how distressing for them to have to see that. It's a good thing that the pup was not badly injured.

Dog parks terrify me. So many times there's someone there with an uncontrollable dog with "issues" who believes that they have as much right to use the park as everyone else. I had to stop taking my dog years ago after one to many narrow escapes. A lot of people who used to frequent the dog park in my area did so because their dog was too aggressive to let leash for a run and they believed in their heart of hearts that all dogs need a good free run so this was the next best thing. Shame about all the other people's dogs also using the park.

I completely agree with the comment about putting a puppy in a dog park being akin to throwing a toddler into a rugby match. You just never know what kind of people/dogs you are sharing that enclosed space with.

[Dame Aussie]

Mosley was attacked by a Malamute in a dog park when he was about 5 months and did the same thing, lay on his back, belly exposed, this dog didn't give a crap and just kept going to town on him until the OH had to kick it to get it away. Owbner was there, didn't seem too worried really....he got a mouthful as we left the park :laugh:

I would definitely pick up a small dog to protect it and I will kick the hell out of anything that is trying to hurt my dogs. Carrying umbrellas etc is a great idea. Also as TW said lunging and shouting helps, we scared off a bulldog that was rushing us (not to play) by just stamping in front of it and yelling at it.

I'm so over people not containing/controlling their dog that I just have no tolerance left.

[huski]

i have always wondered why these dogs would attack something so non-threatening, but came to the conclusion that they are just plain bullies, and have not been trained by the owners that it is bad behaviour (ie they like their dogs like that )

How ridiculous. I would give anything for my dog not to be DA, and even after a lot of training and behaviour modification (he hasn’t attacked another dog in more than five years) he will still never be the dog he could have been had he not developed fear aggression. I know a number of people with DA dogs and no one I know actually likes it. Is awful having to manage a dog that can be aggressive. I wouldn’t wish it on anyone.

It’s quite rare to come across a truly rank aggressive dog, by far most aggression is fear based.

If people liked that their dogs were DA, we would never have any clients and neither would any other behaviourial trainers.

Edited March 16, 2012 by huski

[grumpette]

I know of two occasions where an adult bitch attacked two different puppies and it turned out that both puppies had terminal illnesses, which they died from within months of the attacks. Both attacks did not cause injury to the puppies, so their illness was not as a result of the attack.

Sometimes mature dogs attack puppies for logical reasons that we are not aware of.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

My latest pup got socialisation with trusted dogs and owners I knew and at his kindy classes (which are still going). He's a bit of a thug. No way would I let him play off lead with tiny baby puppies - he'd squash them.

I make no assumptions about dogs at trials or shows. I avoid contact unless I know them or they are also baby puppies.

Hard to avoid them when they slip their collar and make a beeline for your dog

There was a baby whippet at one of the dog parks last weekend!

Lets hope it stays in one piece. All it has to be is bowled at speed for a broken leg.

A dog that slipped its collar and made a beeline for any of my dogs would be airborne shortly afterwards. I have no qualms about booting dogs to keep mine safe.. none at all.

We had a baby Iggy up at this rougher park the other day - the owner picked him up and he wriggled the whole time to get down and play but there were bigger dogs there that would have made it impossible..

Darn but he was so very cute though..

And as Italian Greyhound Rescue, we recommend NOT to go to dog parks with larger dogs because Iggies break .... also, if you read about the breed they are usually uncomfortable in a place with lots of other dogs, they are better in a small group setting and not with bigger dogs unless very well supervised and not rough housing.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Poor pup having such clueless owners. It always amazes me to see people take small puppies and small dogs for that matter into dog parks with several large dogs - even when there are small dog enclosures provided. Witnessed this recently when a woman took two small maltese crosses about 7 months old into the large dog section and saw one flattened by a labrador. Only then did she bring them into the small dog enclosure where several of the smaller dogs badgered the poor little thing as well - the woman did not seem to have a clue about protecting her dog I ended up standing in front of the dog myself and shooing the others away. What fear issues will that dog have after that episode I wonder.

It would help if a lot of dog parks were more properly signposted as well i.e, clearly marked as to the size of dog allowed in each section.

[percyk]

cavies in sth america attack and eat their male offspring

and it can happen with domesticated ones too...so breeders take the male away once the sow is heavily pregnant to give the littlies a chance

so maybe it's the same with dogs

maybe some just have that overactive sense of territory and hierarchy and competition

once i was picking up a puppy we were buying and the father of that litter was acting aggressively to his own offspring

the owner was trying to cover up his actions but it was obvious from her choice of words that it wasnt the first time

i have also seen a bitch who was running loose with her own relatively young pups in an offlead park go for a young pup too

she bit off most of the pups ear before being contained

probably hormonal/maternal instinct there but nonetheless very very disconcerting

[megan_]

In Melbourne there are no parks for small dogs

[Greytmate]

i have always wondered why these dogs would attack something so non-threatening, but came to the conclusion that they are just plain bullies, and have not been trained by the owners that it is bad behaviour (ie they like their dogs like that )

A dog's temperament is set genetically, and training and socialisation will only have a limited effect. You can take most of the credit for owning a well-trained dog, but it is the breeder that should take the credit for the dog's underlying nature.

I think many people are surprised when their dog attacks another dog, and many don't want to accept that their dog is aggressive, so will ignore the behaviour or blame the other dog. The idea that 'bad dogs have bad owners' makes some people absolutely refuse to accept that their dog has a behaviour problem, so it is a harmful myth to be spreading around.

Prey drive is one reason why a dog would attack a pup. Such a dog should not be in a dog park, and should probably wear a muzzle in public. Given the attitude of the owners of this dog, they should be reported to council. Before their dog kills another dog. Shaking another dog does not produce many visible injuries, but it can cause quite a lot of internal damage.

[Guest]

My latest pup got socialisation with trusted dogs and owners I knew and at his kindy classes (which are still going). He's a bit of a thug. No way would I let him play off lead with tiny baby puppies - he'd squash them.

I make no assumptions about dogs at trials or shows. I avoid contact unless I know them or they are also baby puppies.

Hard to avoid them when they slip their collar and make a beeline for your dog

There was a baby whippet at one of the dog parks last weekend!

Lets hope it stays in one piece. All it has to be is bowled at speed for a broken leg.

A dog that slipped its collar and made a beeline for any of my dogs would be airborne shortly afterwards. I have no qualms about booting dogs to keep mine safe.. none at all.

DITTO!

[Whippetsmum]

Imagine the horror, toddler assaulted by teenage thugs in Highschool sports ground....(oops it was a Rugby game, maybe they shouldn't have been there?)time for a reality check!

Dog parks are a lottery at best, and Russian roulette most days. The dog park is as dangerous as it comes, you are reliant upon people you mostly don't know to control animals you don't know, with an ever changing mix of dogs and owners. If you can guarantee the attendees, maybe your odds are better. You may know your dog, but can you be sure of the others?

I think the pup owners need to re-think socialisation..... they have rocks in their head if socalisation means the free for all that dog parks can deteriorate into. Socialisation is a far broader concept. e,g, :

Get into puppy classes, meet up with friend's dogs in controlled conditions.....take puppy to busy environments- cafe's, shopping areas, markets....dog parks can wait.

for ignorant Puppy owners! When any new dog- pup or otherwise eneters a dog park- it should be heads up for all.