Staffyluv Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) As the heading says... At the dog park yesterday afternoon this lady turns up with her 2 dogs (I thought this breed was quite a placid type breed). The younger one of the two played lovely with Ziggy and Pippa but the older one seemed not to like Pippa so we went over to the other side of the fenced area where the puppies play. Along comes a young couple with their 3 month old pup and they look at Ziggy and PIppa and decide that the other side is better for their little one to play... Within seconds of entering the older of the 2 dogs runs across from the other side and attackers the pup. Not just a pin down, it actually grabs the poor tiny thing and starts to shake it horribly... The poor young couple were beside themselves. So I leave my 2 and go through the gates to try to help as they are picking their pup up but this other dog won't let go... I gave it a good swift kick in the side and it let go... Its owner by now comes running saying that he takes a dislike to pups (WTF)...but she does not take her dog out or put it on lead or anything. She just took it by the collar back to where she was sitting. Puppy is shaking and obviously upset and we sit down, check him over and there are no serious bites just a bit of blood coming from up near his ear. I suggested they get him checked by a vet to be sure as he might need some antibiotics.. They came and sat in with us, Ziggy and Pippa huddled around the little guy and licked him and smooched him up. Pippa, who is only 5 months old herself seemed really concerned, she would not leave the tiny pup and sat there with him sitting between her legs.... Why would a full grown dog attack a puppy? It is obviously not a normal thing to happen, surely. I thought pups had some sort of right of passage with older dogs (not that this little one did anything wrong) I am glad I listened to my gut and left that side of the park.. Edited March 15, 2012 by Staffyluv Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I don't think anyone can really answer that, too many variables and not knowing the dogs previous history and general temperament. Dante was attacked twice as a puppy by adult dogs, I have no idea why but he continued on his life being the dog that always got singled out and attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helen Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The question is not why the dog attacked, but what i was doing in an offlead dog dog park. Owners fault, not the dog, they obviously knew what he was like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Why would you have a 3 month old off lead at a dog park??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Helen I agree... If the owner knew the dog had issues with pups then a dog park is not the place to let it run free.. I am not going to judge her as I don't know the circumstances but I know If it was my dog and I knew it was prone to disliking puppies, I would not let it offlead at an enclosed dog park... i take my 11 month old and I am having issues with him and his recall at the moment. He is submissive but it has been pointed out here that I shouldn't let him off while his recall is not perfect... As much as I agree, it is totally fenced and he loves to run... It is just to sad to see a dog that loves to run not have a chance to play. He was having another issue being the over friendly, in your fave, I just wanna be friends with all the shy dogs but I have spent heaps of time on the leave it command and that seems to be working to get him to leave the other dogs.. We are still working on the recall with limited success (hard when he was so good a month ago and just seems to be having to much fun to respond but I realise that is the point of recall))... Sas, poor Dante... I remember I used to have dogs having a go at Ollie dog after he was diagnosed with cancer and he was never aggressive before that... All of a sudden even small dogs would walk past us and growl at him... I have the opportunity to do a dog training class that discusses behaviour and reading the behaviour of dogs and I cant wait (one of the benefits of fostering)... I have always gone on gut feelings with dogs and so far have been pretty right. Except for the most adorable, huge Labrador at the other dog park we go to.. He comes to the gate to meet us with all hackles up and teeth bared. No growling at all but the first time I saw it I thought, oh my god, I can't take Ziggy in there... His owner said he loves other dogs and is just very excited... He played with Ziggy as a pup and they still play together and he still hackles up every time we see him... Seriously every hackle from his neck to his tail all straight up.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Why would you have a 3 month old off lead at a dog park??? To socialize it I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Poor pup She really shouldn't have had her dog at the park offlead if it takes a dislike to any type of dog IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Her Majesty Dogmad Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) In our local dog off leash park there was a recent incident with a Staffy grabbing a puppy by the ear and doing some damage. It would not let go and apparently this was not the first instance with the dog attacking in a completely unprovoked situation. A vet was called to the park and treated the puppy who luckily didn't lose an ear, it was some kind of harmless little oodle cross. The puppy was apparently screaming so I asked my friend if the other dog owners held their dogs back and she said she knew to do that because the other owners didn't so she instructed them to hold on to their dogs, this nightmare scene went on for a very long time and was distressing to all. The Staffy's owner was told never to come back again, her dog is simply high risk BUT it is also high risk to take a small puppy to a park. I drive home past a dog park in heavy traffic and last night I saw the tiniest little ball of black fluff running round being chased by two Border Collies, not too many other dogs around but i was terrified for the little mite, the owners just often have no idea. Edited March 15, 2012 by dogmad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Why do people always think that an adult dog won't hurt a puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) My big dog was attacked numerous times as a puppy and this lead to fear aggression, he doesn't only attack puppies but he would do exactly what you outlined in your OP. Its not uncommon for DA dogs to do to other dogs what was done to them. My dog never injured another dog but obviously that doesn't make it ok. Edited March 15, 2012 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Why would a dog attack a pup? Dog aggression. The "why" within that will do your head in. Easier to deal with the behaviour by not giving it an outlet. It's not just external marks you have to worry about when a smaller dog is attacked. A good shaking can do massive internal damage. Why do people take baby puppies to dog parks. Its the kind of "socialisation" you'd experience tossing a toddler into the middle of a rugby game. And people on the sidelines will say "don't worry, the dogs will work it out.. they're just doing what comes naturally". Edited March 15, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommygirl Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Why would a dog attack a pup? Dog aggression. The "why" within that will do your head in. Easier to deal with the behaviour by not giving it an outlet. <b>It's not just external marks you have to worry about when a smaller dog is attacked. A good shaking can do massive internal damage. </b> Why do people take baby puppies to dog parks. Its the kind of "socialisation" you'd experience tossing a toddler into the middle of a rugby game. And people on the sidelines will say "don't worry, the dogs will work it out.. they're just doing what comes naturally". So true. I had one of my dogs die in my arms from this. Big dog picked him up, shook him and threw him to the ground. Not a mark on him, but we thought take him to the vet anyway. He died on my lap in the car on the way there. The other dog had broken his ribs and they punctured his internal organs. (sorry bit OT, but it always scares me when I hear this kind of scenario). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Isn't the whole idea to socialize the pup in the early days important I don't think taking true pup into the big dog section was very intelligent but I guess they saw a couple of schnauzers there and a decent sized staffy cross in the other side. They weren't to know the other dog was DA. I think most newish dog owners would 'assume' a dog park is a good idea... Not saying that is right. My dogs didn't get near the pup until they bought it into the section they were in and they were both very gentle with him. I did not think a grown dog would attack a pup just out of the blue like this did yesterday, that is why I asked the question. I would also like to be able to help again if this type of thing ever happened again. I hope I did the right thing giving the other dog a kick but must admit I felt terrible about it. However my main concern was for the puppy at the time. Was I right in suggesting they seek veterinary help just in case or did I overstep the. Kinds of what should or shouldn't be done... I have never had much to do with dog parks before having Ziggy as when we were younger we just walked the dogs and played on the beach etc So far our time at the dog parks has been great except for yesterday's event Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Isn't the whole idea to socialize the pup in the early days important The word missing is "controlled" socialisation. You want the puppy to only have good or neutral experiences. If you don't know the dogs at the park and you don't know the owners of the level of control they have, its one hell of a risk. There are other, better ways to socialise a puppy. Ways that won't see it end up with an experience that may negatively shape its temperament for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Some pups, particularly very small pups will also trigger prey aggression in some dogs. Particularly dogs that haven't been extensively socialised with other dogs/breeds. They'd have been better off waiting for you to leave the small dog area.. but 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing. I think people should have to attend a presentation on dog behaviour before they are allowed near a dog park. Edited March 15, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I took my girl to dog parks as a pup, but I have always been very, VERY cautious. I don't go when it's busy and I have always avoided certain dogs and breeds. She ended up being attacked a few times, strangely enough NOT at dog parks, but at obedience and agility training/trials. She started exhibiting some different behaviours indicating that she didn't want to interact with lots of unknown dogs, so I rarely go to dog parks anymore. I do go with known, friendly dogs and it's a treat if there is no-one else there! If I see certain breeds or body language before I get in the park, I don't go in. Early on weekends is the best time as they are usually empty or have one or two regulars That being said, my nerves have been rattled and I don't know if I'd be able to stomach it with a new pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) I took my girl to dog parks as a pup, but I have always been very, VERY cautious. I don't go when it's busy and I have always avoided certain dogs and breeds. She ended up being attacked a few times, strangely enough NOT at dog parks, but at obedience and agility training/trials. She started exhibiting some different behaviours indicating that she didn't want to interact with lots of unknown dogs, so I rarely go to dog parks anymore. I do go with known, friendly dogs and it's a treat if there is no-one else there! If I see certain breeds or body language before I get in the park, I don't go in. Early on weekends is the best time as they are usually empty or have one or two regulars That being said, my nerves have been rattled and I don't know if I'd be able to stomach it with a new pup. My latest pup got socialisation with trusted dogs and owners I knew and at his kindy classes (which are still going). He's a bit of a thug. No way would I let him play off lead with tiny baby puppies - he'd squash them. I make no assumptions about dogs at trials or shows. I avoid contact unless I know them or they are also baby puppies. Edited March 15, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 My latest pup got socialisation with trusted dogs and owners I knew and at his kindy classes (which are still going). He's a bit of a thug. No way would I let him play off lead with tiny baby puppies - he'd squash them. I make no assumptions about dogs at trials or shows. I avoid contact unless I know them or they are also baby puppies. Hard to avoid them when they slip their collar and make a beeline for your dog There was a baby whippet at one of the dog parks last weekend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roguedog Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 no dog should be attacking pups, I used to own a badly DA rescue dog, he would try to kill any adult dog (hence why he never saw the inside of a dog park!! or off lead beach either - I never allowed the chance of an incident to happen!! was never let off lead) however he raised countless numbers of foster pups, they could do anything to him without fear of an attack.... any pup was safe with him.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 My latest pup got socialisation with trusted dogs and owners I knew and at his kindy classes (which are still going). He's a bit of a thug. No way would I let him play off lead with tiny baby puppies - he'd squash them. I make no assumptions about dogs at trials or shows. I avoid contact unless I know them or they are also baby puppies. Hard to avoid them when they slip their collar and make a beeline for your dog There was a baby whippet at one of the dog parks last weekend! Lets hope it stays in one piece. All it has to be is bowled at speed for a broken leg. A dog that slipped its collar and made a beeline for any of my dogs would be airborne shortly afterwards. I have no qualms about booting dogs to keep mine safe.. none at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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