Kavik Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) With all these threads on breed health and functionality, I thought I'd start a thread on ways we can test for functionality in breeds. For some this is more obvious than others, some breeds are still used for original work or there are sports which simulate original work, with others their work is illegal so we may need to be more creative in testing for correct temperament/functionality. Obviously I am talking about the breeds with a working function, not those who were bred stricly as companions. So the easy ones: herding breeds - herding tests/trials Terriers - earthdog sighthounds - lure coursing, maybe look at the prey drive section in Korning test to see if it could be adapted somehow? gundogs - the various gundog sports, according to the breed's function sled dogs - sled dog events or weight pull Protection breeds - on another forum we are discussing the best way to go about this as IPO is difficult in this country due to perception and laws (and lack of clubs) - so we are currently looking at alternatives that would be accepted - one idea is a temperament test that is done in Sweden and measures stability, prey drive, play drive, sociability, startle and recovery, reactions to strange people and objects and noise etc and does not include bitework For the more dificult ones Scenting dogs - nosework maybe http://www.funnosework.com/ ETA: Tracking :) cart pulling dogs - weight pull Dallies and other endurance breeds - Endurance test Companion dogs - general temperament test - handleability, sociability, nerve, maybe startle and recovery? The really hard ones - bull breeds and large game hunters whose original purpose is illegal - maybe weight pull http://www.iwpa.net/index.html or one with spring pole? (look down to hang time) http://www.irondog.biz/rules.html which would test gameness Have I missed any? Edited March 15, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 With all these threads on breed health and functionality, I thought I'd start a thread on ways we can test for functionality in breeds. For some this is more obvious than others, some breeds are still used for original work or there are sports which simulate original work, with others their work is illegal so we may need to be more creative in testing for correct temperament/functionality. Obviously I am talking about the breeds with a working function, not those who were bred stricly as companions. So the easy ones: herding breeds - herding tests/trials Terriers - earthdog sighthounds - lure coursinggundogs - the various gundog sports, according to the breed's function sled dogs - sled dog events or weight pull Protection breeds - on another forum we are discussing the best way to go about this as IPO is difficult in this country due to perception and laws (and lack of clubs) - so we are currently looking at alternatives that would be accepted - one idea is a temperament test that is done in Sweden and measures stability, prey drive, play drive, sociability, startle and recovery, reactions to strange people and objects and noise etc and does not include bitework For the more dificult ones Scenting dogs - nosework maybe http://www.funnosework.com/ cart pulling dogs - weight pull The really hard ones - bull breeds and large game hunters whose original purpose is illegal - maybe weight pull http://www.iwpa.net/index.html or one with spring pole? (look down to hang time) http://www.irondog.biz/rules.html which would test gameness Have I missed any? Quite a few sighthounds won't course a plastic bag. And live game is out. I call lure coursing and indicator of function but by no means a definitive method of proving it. Coursing lures don't move like hares either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 You could change the lure to be a fake fur tug or similar. Is there a way you could rig the lure to move like prey? Surely there should be a way to adapt it to test for function. This is the video of the temperament test under discussion for GSDs - if you watch it the section on testing for prey drive uses a pretend furry little animal, that might work for testing sighthounds too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Scenting dogs - nosework maybe http://www.funnosework.com/ Or tracking, seeing that already exists. ;) :) All my terriers do earthdog. :) So I have no qualms with any functionality tests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stonecutter Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 What about companion dogs? The Jap Spitz was bred as a companion and house dog, thought to have originated from the grosse spitz that, from memory, barked to alert of incoming people towards their home. My dog certainly does that! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Protection breeds - on another forum we are discussing the best way to go about this as IPO is difficult in this country due to perception and laws (and lack of clubs) - so we are currently looking at alternatives that would be accepted - one idea is a temperament test that is done in Sweden and measures stability, prey drive, play drive, sociability, startle and recovery, reactions to strange people and objects and noise etc and does not include bitework To do a generalised test like that would then extend outside guarding breeds. Bitework has its own merits as a tester, there are things you cannot prove without seeing the dog bite. There is more to it then pure prey work as well and in that ideal the dogs can be mated to produce different types of working animals. Within some breeds there is a difference between civil working animals and sport animals - you dont mix the two in some instances as it doesnt produce good pups. Plenty of dogs out there with a lot of prey, but woeful bites, and conversely those with a lower prey but fabulous bite and guarding skills. If we keep accepting alternatives our quality will slip, which it has in a lot of cases. That Korning test on paper looks to have a lot of merit, but from that video ... I wouldn't touch that dog to work with a 10 foot pole Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I like the idea of the Swedish test for protection. It could also be used for a lot of sporting working breeds as those qualities are desirable for those breeds too. Do you have any more info on it? Stonecutter - maybe a cut-down of the Swedish protection test? After all, a good pet dog should have solid nerves, should be able to recover quickly from a startle, should react appropriately to strangers (I don't mean they have to love them, but not be timid or aggressive) etc. I like the idea of nosework separate from tracking too, as it provides a different outlet for the scent skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weasels Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) What about companion dogs? The Jap Spitz was bred as a companion and house dog, thought to have originated from the grosse spitz that, from memory, barked to alert of incoming people towards their home. My dog certainly does that! :laugh: You could develop a "fluffiness" test, or evaluate its size:cute ratio :laugh: Edited March 15, 2012 by Weasels Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 http://hem.passagen.se/sparring/mental/korningen.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 People focus would be an obvious test for companion dogs. Or perhaps just a general temperament test to eliminate 'poor' temperament. Not excessively shy, no people aggression, no dog aggression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 actually companion dogs should be tested for handleability, a good nature, good nerve and high tolerance of human contact. Too many small dogs with temperaments totally opposite to what makes a good companion dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I would love to see huskies/ mals etc tested for team working as well. Nothing worse than the ones that snap or lunge as you scoot on overtaking them. (Thankfully not too many) They're supposed to work as a team so they shouldn't be having a go at other dogs IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I would love to see huskies/ mals etc tested for team working as well. Nothing worse than the ones that snap or lunge as you scoot on overtaking them. (Thankfully not too many) They're supposed to work as a team so they shouldn't be having a go at other dogs IMO If they aren't having a go at the dogs on their team, I'd not consider it an issue. A strong pack dog doesn't necessarily welcome strangers to the pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Not many show whippets get to hunt, course or race, and I doubt show greyhounds ever would. I wish that performance ability was recognised by the breed authorities and VCA. At least there's provision for it on the whippet archives, an amazing resource for whippet enthusiasts. I've put all my girls racing acheivements on there. I'm probably the only Australian who's done so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esky the husky Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I would love to see huskies/ mals etc tested for team working as well. Nothing worse than the ones that snap or lunge as you scoot on overtaking them. (Thankfully not too many) They're supposed to work as a team so they shouldn't be having a go at other dogs IMO If they aren't having a go at the dogs on their team, I'd not consider it an issue. A strong pack dog doesn't necessarily welcome strangers to the pack. Fair enough, but I have also seen some dogs have a go at their own team members. There was a nasty blow out between two GSPs at a race last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Protection breeds - on another forum we are discussing the best way to go about this as IPO is difficult in this country due to perception and laws (and lack of clubs) - so we are currently looking at alternatives that would be accepted - one idea is a temperament test that is done in Sweden and measures stability, prey drive, play drive, sociability, startle and recovery, reactions to strange people and objects and noise etc and does not include bitework To do a generalised test like that would then extend outside guarding breeds. Bitework has its own merits as a tester, there are things you cannot prove without seeing the dog bite. There is more to it then pure prey work as well and in that ideal the dogs can be mated to produce different types of working animals. Within some breeds there is a difference between civil working animals and sport animals - you dont mix the two in some instances as it doesnt produce good pups. Plenty of dogs out there with a lot of prey, but woeful bites, and conversely those with a lower prey but fabulous bite and guarding skills. If we keep accepting alternatives our quality will slip, which it has in a lot of cases. That Korning test on paper looks to have a lot of merit, but from that video ... I wouldn't touch that dog to work with a 10 foot pole I agree that a test with bitework would be ideal, but how to get that accepted? The idea being thrown around is start with Korning test and then proceed to Korung which has bitework. Edited March 15, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuffles Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I would love to see huskies/ mals etc tested for team working as well. Nothing worse than the ones that snap or lunge as you scoot on overtaking them. (Thankfully not too many) They're supposed to work as a team so they shouldn't be having a go at other dogs IMO If they aren't having a go at the dogs on their team, I'd not consider it an issue. A strong pack dog doesn't necessarily welcome strangers to the pack. When we were recently in Finland, we did a "husky safari". The dogs are used for racing. They definitely had some arguments even within teams :laugh: Nothing serious though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I would love to see huskies/ mals etc tested for team working as well. Nothing worse than the ones that snap or lunge as you scoot on overtaking them. (Thankfully not too many) They're supposed to work as a team so they shouldn't be having a go at other dogs IMO If they aren't having a go at the dogs on their team, I'd not consider it an issue. A strong pack dog doesn't necessarily welcome strangers to the pack. Fair enough, but I have also seen some dogs have a go at their own team members. There was a nasty blow out between two GSPs at a race last year. GSP's aint a sledding breed though - even if they do race in events. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogsfevr Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Not all states have these events so what happens to those who have to fly or drive for days to get to a test day ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Not many show whippets get to hunt, course or race, and I doubt show greyhounds ever would. I wish that performance ability was recognised by the breed authorities and VCA. At least there's provision for it on the whippet archives, an amazing resource for whippet enthusiasts. I've put all my girls racing acheivements on there. I'm probably the only Australian who's done so. racing is not what greyhounds were originally bred to do, they were bred to hunt and yes some still do so, race and show bred. Not all greyhounds live in backyards plenty live on farms where there are rabbits, hares etc. eta to fix my spelling - again! Edited March 15, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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