Noise Reactive Dog

[emgem]

Just after some advice as to the best way to handle noise reactivity. For the most part, his noise reactivity is fairly mild. Things like thunder, fireworks and traffic don't faze him, but he will start and look at you sideways at odd noises like a blown raspberry, he used to bark at me when I sang and he will bark and chase if my sister's kids rush past him shrieking. However, he is easily settled in all these cases.

He is also however reactive to the sound of other dogs distress, which can be a problem when working with him in classes. He will settle initially but repeat incidents wind him up further and further until even a pace change will set him off. We are working on some general calming exercises but I am struggling to implement things like "look at that" since the time between him hearing the noise and reacting is so short.

[Guest Ams]

emgem afaik the idea behind LAT training is to get it solid before you need it, so take your dog away from classes and other known distractions until you have a solid LAT and once he gets the hang of it, slowly add in distractions (at a distance at first) and slowly decrease the distance and increase the frequency of the distraction as you progress. The idea is for the dog to remain focused on what you want rather than allow the distraction to win so it is a long and sometimes painfully slow process which must be done in tiny increments. If you take too big a leap then you undo all you have achieved and need to go back to the beginning (even if only for a short time) and start again.

You may like to start with TOT (Triangle of Temptation) training first.

I hope that makes sense or that someone else can come in and explain it better.

[BC Crazy]

My girl is pretty reactive to most noises. Have just started to use LAT training 2 days ago & I would go as far as to say I have a 70% improvement thus far. Don't want to jinx myself but I can't believe the difference it has made to her. She doesn't get to the same level of reactivity as she use to & comes back down a lot quicker. I'm wrapped. :)

[emgem]

emgem afaik the idea behind LAT training is to get it solid before you need it, so take your dog away from classes and other known distractions until you have a solid LAT and once he gets the hang of it, slowly add in distractions (at a distance at first) and slowly decrease the distance and increase the frequency of the distraction as you progress. The idea is for the dog to remain focused on what you want rather than allow the distraction to win so it is a long and sometimes painfully slow process which must be done in tiny increments. If you take too big a leap then you undo all you have achieved and need to go back to the beginning (even if only for a short time) and start again.

You may like to start with TOT (Triangle of Temptation) training first.

I hope that makes sense or that someone else can come in and explain it better.

I guess I don't understand how to even get the LAT working when he isn't reactive in other situations ie the only place he has this reaction is during classes so how do I get him to associate the LAT with things that make him reactive. If he was reactive to visual stimulus, we could do it no problem but with noise (particularly random and unpredictable noise) I can't see a starting point.

[Weasels]

I guess I don't understand how to even get the LAT working when he isn't reactive in other situations ie the only place he has this reaction is during classes so how do I get him to associate the LAT with things that make him reactive. If he was reactive to visual stimulus, we could do it no problem but with noise (particularly random and unpredictable noise) I can't see a starting point.

You don't have to start with a stimulus. You can begin training LAT in your backyard with a neutral object. When he looks at the thing (it could be a towel) click & reward. Then once he's offering the look nicely, add your cue & point (my cue is "there!"), until you can cue the behaviour reliably. Then you can start generalising to other still objects, then moving objects, then work up to stimulating objects.

I think the majority of dogs would react to kids running past shrieking! It is a perfect combination of noise, movement & excitement that is doggy overstimulation utopia

Edit:

He is also however reactive to the sound of other dogs distress, which can be a problem when working with him in classes. He will settle initially but repeat incidents wind him up further and further until even a pace change will set him off. We are working on some general calming exercises but I am struggling to implement things like "look at that" since the time between him hearing the noise and reacting is so short.

If he is starting to get wound up, I would take him away from the class after the first instance and do some focus exercises (look-at-me, high-fives, heels, throwing-treat games) until he was back to a lower excitement state and then slowly move back towards the class. Then retreat again if needed rather than letting the excitement escalate. Personally I find focus exercises much easier to implement than calming exercises, but then I have workaholic dogs :laugh:

Edited March 15, 2012 by Weasels

[megan_]

Waht Weasel says. Don't get too hung up on the fact it is called "Look at That", it can also be "Hear That" or "Bananas".

[Weasels]

Waht Weasel says. Don't get too hung up on the fact it is called "Look at That", it can also be "Hear That" or "Bananas".

That's a good point too - since more dogs are motion reactive the 'looking' was probably developed with them in mind.

The only important part is that you are setting the dog up to "tell" you when he sees something exciting. The cue part is just to get the dog to learn the game, then what you want is the dog to think "hey, there's that thing going on over there! Better tell mum and collect my reward". Instead of the dog just having no framework for dealing with overstimulation and flipping out.

[Aidan3]

I would just work on counter-conditioning him to those things.

For e.g, if your sister's kids can cooperate, have them walk past quickly without making much noise (have dog on leash). Click and treat for calm behaviour. Gradually increase the strength of the stimulus, have them run a little faster, start introducing a bit of noise. If you know when they will make the noise, click immediately, before he has had a chance to react. You can do something similar with the blowing raspberries.

If he is reactive to other dogs, start working with him at a distance. Click and treat calm behaviour.

I think that's as simple as it needs to be. If you were an experienced clicker trainer and the problem was really bad you could do what's known as "Differential Reinforcement of Least Intense Response", whereby you click the least intense responses and shape those responses down to calm responses over time. There is always a way.

[emgem]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think I can at least see a place to start with him. The real problem is not the reactivity but he fact that he has limited ability to self regulate and is prone to overstimulation. I can't play fetch with him because it always ends up with a 20 kilo dog leaping about my ears and snatching at the ball. His excitement level also escalates very quickly.

The counter conditioning works well for situations like joggers where the stimulating event happens once or twice in a session. It doesn't work so well for situation with repeating stimuli like classes with reactive dogs. He also isn't exsctly reactive toward other dogs. In response to their noise, yes. But his barking is always directed at the handler, not the dog.

And of course I don't clicker train. I tried but I couldn't manage to coordinate clicker, leads and rewards.

[persephone]

What is the body language when barking? Any video/photos/description.That may well decide which way you need to go re: working at the problem.

[Aidan3]

The counter conditioning works well for situations like joggers where the stimulating event happens once or twice in a session. It doesn't work so well for situation with repeating stimuli like classes with reactive dogs.

Distance, distance, distance... stack the deck in your favour. There is nothing wrong with doing desensitisation and counter-conditioning the old fashioned way, working well below threshold. It works.

And of course I don't clicker train. I tried but I couldn't manage to coordinate clicker, leads and rewards.

A verbal marker is fine for most of what I have described.

[Weasels]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think I can at least see a place to start with him. The real problem is not the reactivity but he fact that he has limited ability to self regulate and is prone to overstimulation. I can't play fetch with him because it always ends up with a 20 kilo dog leaping about my ears and snatching at the ball. His excitement level also escalates very quickly.

There are heaps of self-control games you can do as well which might help :) Maintaining eye contact while you hold a treat out to the side is a good one, or even training a 'wait' at the door all help build a dog that thinks before it acts.

If you can wait him out with the ball without losing too much skin and only throw it when he is waiting quietly this will be a huge step in his learning how to get what the wants in an acceptable way. (As an aside, I loooove it when dogs are this excited about an object. I call it "obesession training" - basically +R training on steroids because you are both providing the dog with a huge reward, and teaching them to work when their brain is in high gear. I would adopt another ball-obsessed dog in a heartbeat.)

And of course I don't clicker train. I tried but I couldn't manage to coordinate clicker, leads and rewards.

A verbal marker is fine for most of what I have described.

I too am ridiculously uncoordinated with the clicker :laugh:, especially when I have 2 leashes. I use 95% verbal markers ("yes!") and only pull out the clicker for precision work (e.g. teaching the difference between 'play dead' and 'roll over'). But practice always helps, you can start at home without the leash and with treats in your pocket or ready in your other hand :)

[emgem]

What is the body language when barking? Any video/photos/description.That may well decide which way you need to go re: working at the problem.

*sigh* I don't have video footage, nor am I likely to get any as there is only him and I. He obviously only gets to the end of the lead, but it is a definitely charge. His body posture is the same as when he is seeing the neighbours cat out of the yard or when the postman puts the mail in our mailbox (NB: postman is perfectly safe on the otherside of a 6 foot fence). Head up, tail up and a flat choppy run with the back end tucked under. It is very different to his normal run, which has a lot of bounce to it. I have seen him do it once off lead at the local park when someone stepped on a dogs foot. On that occasion he stopped a couple of feet away, barking, and stopped and came back to me when I called him. But of course, it was the first instance so he wasn't overstimulated. It is also very close to the way he acted on the two occasions we have seen dogs fighting (if scraps where no blood was drawn could be called a fight), except two dogs fighting tend to move around more so he wasn't stationary and barking.

I suspect that I am making the problem sound worse than it actually is, but I dont' want to minimise the problem either. It's a little frustrating because we have been going for several months now without problem, but the new year always brings an influx of new dogs, including some who are dog aggressive or easily over stimulated like mine. After Easter, the situation will resolve itself, but it will of course reoccur next year if I don't find a way to resolve it.

[emgem]

There are heaps of self-control games you can do as well which might help :) Maintaining eye contact while you hold a treat out to the side is a good one, or even training a 'wait' at the door all help build a dog that thinks before it acts.

If you can wait him out with the ball without losing too much skin and only throw it when he is waiting quietly this will be a huge step in his learning how to get what the wants in an acceptable way. (As an aside, I loooove it when dogs are this excited about an object. I call it "obesession training" - basically +R training on steroids because you are both providing the dog with a huge reward, and teaching them to work when their brain is in high gear. I would adopt another ball-obsessed dog in a heartbeat.)

So you think playing with the ball when really excited would teach him better control. I worry that it will do the opposite. He was such a crazy little monster when I brought him home with next to no impulse control at all. I have a whole series of photos of him between 4 and 6 months that are nothing more than shots of him chewing my shoes while I was still wearing them and shots of him with the lens cap in his mouth tugging for all he was worth. My previous dogs were BCs but I have never had a pup quite this hyper before. However, he is so much improved and I don't want to jeapordise the conrol he has learned.

[Kavik]

You can teach him control with the ball, and then you have a super reward too :) So he is keen on the ball, does he know sit? Get him to sit before you throw the ball, wait out any inappropriate responses.

[persephone]

From what I've seen, sniffer dogs etc are absolutely toy/ball crazy!! that becomes their 'raison d'etre' and , as they ONLY get it after 'working' it keeps a high value and is an almost failproof way of getting co operation.

[Kavik]

From what I've seen, sniffer dogs etc are absolutely toy/ball crazy!! that becomes their 'raison d'etre' and , as they ONLY get it after 'working' it keeps a high value and is an almost failproof way of getting co operation.

Yep get the ball on your side and get him to work for the ball.

[persephone]

get him to work for the ball.

and don't 'give in' ;)

[Weasels]

So you think playing with the ball when really excited would teach him better control. I worry that it will do the opposite. He was such a crazy little monster when I brought him home with next to no impulse control at all. I have a whole series of photos of him between 4 and 6 months that are nothing more than shots of him chewing my shoes while I was still wearing them and shots of him with the lens cap in his mouth tugging for all he was worth. My previous dogs were BCs but I have never had a pup quite this hyper before. However, he is so much improved and I don't want to jeapordise the conrol he has learned.

If you aren't comfortable doing that straight-up you could practice a "please" behaviour (so if the dog wants something his default behaviour is to sit, for example) with something of lower value first then work up to the ball. Just everytime the dog wants anything, he has to sit first (if that's the behaviour you decide you want), and like Kavik & Pers said, never give in even if you have to wait or walk off & ignore him until he settles.

My girl is really strongly ball obsessed. She will bring us balls to throw all day if we let her, and she throws a small fit if she loses one under the couch :rolleyes: Nothing else exists when I have a ball in my hand. It took about 8 months of on & off training from when I adopted her to the point where I can put her in a down-stay and throw the ball over her head and she will remain with her eyes locked on me until she's released. Purely with the reward of throwing the ball she has an excellent recall, excellent "stop", will down-stay from across an oval and I never have to worry about her running off. That ball obsession is pure gold to our training, it just takes some patience to build structure to the obsession. I have trained my boy in the same way but mostly with food and Premack rewards and he is nowhere near as reliable.