jim1 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 XP3020 Extra Premium Dry Dog Food Has any one tryed it? if yes what are post and neg Thanks in Advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ams Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Never heard of it but after g**gling, the second ingredient listed is corn which I understand is a known allergenic in a lot of dogs. Edited March 13, 2012 by Ams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Never heard of it, but considering it has over 12 lines of ingredients, and the second one being corn - I doubt it's fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There was a thread started on that a little while ago Here Personally, for reasons others have said, I wouldn't even consider it. I'm a convert to Black Hawk Holistic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frodo's mum Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I wouldn't use it with corn listed second either my dogs are doing fantastic on Taste of the Wild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have been using useing Black hawk, for the past 6 months there coats look ok BUT they are loseing muscle and puting on fat instead. also lots of farting and drinking heaps of water I never seen this happen with other dry foods!! Is there lots of salt in this dry dog food that is making them drink like they are elephants. :)they are the reasons why I want to change the dry dog food and not sure what to try... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I have been using useing Black hawk, for the past 6 months there coats look ok BUT they are loseing muscle and puting on fat instead. also lots of farting and drinking heaps of water I never seen this happen with other dry foods!! Is there lots of salt in this dry dog food that is making them drink like they are elephants. :)they are the reasons why I want to change the dry dog food and not sure what to try... That's exactly what happened to my Staffords and to some others that have used it. They went from being loaded with muscle and ripped for Specialty shows, to less than ideal. If you want to keep muscle on your dogs, you could give Royal Canin a go, mine look super on that and also Canidae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There was a bit of a discussion about this on the BH thread some months ago, My dogs have no problems but I emailed Sherel (BH) & this is her reply (quote) There is no added salt to the BlackHawk formula, I personally like my dogs to drink water, do people forget the body is made up of 80% water. Water is also used by the body to keep toxins from building up in the body, and highly recommended for keeping the kidneys flushed, Some dog food formulas are high in moisture content so dogs wont drink so much BlackHawk formulas are middle of the scale for moisture on finished product, (end of quote) It makes sense to me, but check out the other thread I gave you on that other stuff, get a sample & try it. I am sure there would be better foods out there though than that one...it's cheap enough, if that is what is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest lavendergirl Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is just one of the many imported kibbles - there are better choices such as Taste of the Wild or Canidae. You can get samples of both those to try. This is a good website to compare various kibbles. www.dogfoodanalysis.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobecrazy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am wary about TOTW because of who makes it, they may use GM potatoes. Canidae has been great for my Dobe but they changed the formula and I am also iffy about them. Artemis, Ziwipeak and Organix will be the only kibble I touch now.. wouldve gone to Evo or Innova but the company that bought them out tests on animals and they may change the formula very soon. What are you looking for in a kibble, what type of dog do you have etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 This is what royal canin Ingredients are is it ok for the first Ingredients to be maize!!! NOT SURE ANY MORE I MAY JUST GO BACK TO BONNIE. COMPOSITION: maize, maize flour, dehydrated poultry meat, animal fats, maize gluten, hydrolysed animal proteins, dehydrated pork protein, beet pulp, minerals, fish oil, soya oil, yeasts, egg powder, hydrolysed crustaceans (source of glucosamine), hydrolysed cartilage (source of chondroitin).ADDITIVES (per kg): Nutritional additives: Vitamin A: 10500 IU, Vitamin D3: 1000 IU, E1 (Iron): 45 mg, E2 (Iodine): 2.4 mg, E4 (Copper): 8 mg, E5 (Manganese): 60 mg, E6 (Zinc): 197 mg, E8 (Selenium): 0.08 mg, Taurine: 0.3 g - Preservatives - Antioxidants.ANALYTICAL CONSTITUENTS: Protein: 26% - Fat content: 17% - Crude ash: 5.8% - Crude fibres: 1.4% - EPA and DHA fatty acids: 4.2 g/kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim1 Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 There was a bit of a discussion about this on the BH thread some months ago, My dogs have no problems but I emailed Sherel (BH) & this is her reply (quote) There is no added salt to the BlackHawk formula, I personally like my dogs to drink water, do people forget the body is made up of 80% water. Water is also used by the body to keep toxins from building up in the body, and highly recommended for keeping the kidneys flushed, Some dog food formulas are high in moisture content so dogs wont drink so much BlackHawk formulas are middle of the scale for moisture on finished product, (end of quote) It makes sense to me, but check out the other thread I gave you on that other stuff, get a sample & try it. I am sure there would be better foods out there though than that one...it's cheap enough, if that is what is important. It has nothing to do with price I just dont think Black Hawk is what many people think it is. its just the same as any other dry dog food with lots of crap.. P.S. is the 80% water you talking about apply to dogs? Like I said my dog farts all the time, Drinks water as if it has not seen water, and lost its muscle tone have you any answers to them questions. the only thing my dog has is a good coat to look at and that is not evreything.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dotdashdot Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 There was a bit of a discussion about this on the BH thread some months ago, My dogs have no problems but I emailed Sherel (BH) & this is her reply (quote) There is no added salt to the BlackHawk formula, I personally like my dogs to drink water, do people forget the body is made up of 80% water. Water is also used by the body to keep toxins from building up in the body, and highly recommended for keeping the kidneys flushed, Some dog food formulas are high in moisture content so dogs wont drink so much BlackHawk formulas are middle of the scale for moisture on finished product, (end of quote) It makes sense to me, but check out the other thread I gave you on that other stuff, get a sample & try it. I am sure there would be better foods out there though than that one...it's cheap enough, if that is what is important. It has nothing to do with price I just dont think Black Hawk is what many people think it is. its just the same as any other dry dog food with lots of crap.. P.S. is the 80% water you talking about apply to dogs? Like I said my dog farts all the time, Drinks water as if it has not seen water, and lost its muscle tone have you any answers to them questions. the only thing my dog has is a good coat to look at and that is not evreything.. Just got to remember that no one brand will suit every dog. My girl is on Black Hawk, and total opposite of your case, has beautiful muscle tone and doesn't fart much at all, and drinks the same as when on other food brands. I tried other brands before settling on what im now happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.G Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I am wary about TOTW because of who makes it, they may use GM potatoes. Canidae has been great for my Dobe but they changed the formula and I am also iffy about them. Artemis, Ziwipeak and Organix will be the only kibble I touch now.. wouldve gone to Evo or Innova but the company that bought them out tests on animals and they may change the formula very soon. What are you looking for in a kibble, what type of dog do you have etc? Dobecrazy Canidae have not changed there formula since 2007. Since Canidae has been in Australia (25 months now) it has never had a formula change. Hope this clears it up for you George Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dobecrazy Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Ah thanks, I must of been reading an American forum SORRY CANIDAE! I fed the Salmon to my dobe but she is now with my parents. My new dobe is doing well on Ziwipeak, she was raised on Royal Canin maxi junior and she did well on it I must say. I heard feeding lamb every day is bad for dogs, does someone want to clear this up? OP your dog may not be responding well to the lamb in black hawk I have heard a few peoples dogs that have gone lackluster on lamb but have heard the same about chicken etc, you cannot go wrong with salmon in my opinion but again this could also not work for your dog. Go with whatever works for your dog, if the kibble doesnt read too well and you want to supplement, sardines in springwater are great for the coat, inexpensive and dogs love them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I've just done a switch to Black Hawk and I have noticed coat improvement in my huskies but they are drinking A LOT more water than before and the weather has gotten cooler so I'm assuming it's the food? But if it is ok guess there is nothing to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brighton Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 John Hutchison Forum Member Posts: 2 Joined: 14-February 12 State:VIC Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:23 PM Hi, I noticed that my post which originally appeared on another website has been re-posted here. I have no objection as it was posted without alteration. With respect Andisa and Missymoo, XP3020 is a super premium food. If you look the ingredient list together with the guaranteed analysis, this tells you most of what you need to know about any food, provided you have a basic knowledge of ingredient definitions, and remember that the ingredients are listed in descending order for products made in the USA. This product is made in the USA, not Australia as Joblo has stated. (In Australia there are no labelling requirements to list ingredients in descending order). Let me explain. The guaranteed analysis shows 30% protein, 20% fat, 3% fibre. XP3020 uses chicken and egg as its only protein sources, and chicken fat as its only fat source,and dried beet pulp (which is an excellent source of moderately fermentable fibre) as its only fibre source, which is what you want from a super premium food. Any ingredient listed below chicken fat will be less than 20%, and any ingredient listed above chicken fat will be more than 20%. Any ingredient listed below dried beet pulp will be less than 3%, and any listed between dried beet pulp and chicken fat will be between 3% and 20%. So using this as a basis we can see that chicken meal will provide about 28-29% of the protein in the food, and egg about 1 - 2% of the protein. So the protein in this food comes from the meat and egg sources, NOT poorer quality cereal sources. Using meat protein is one of the things that makes a super premium food differ from lessor quality foods. The fat in the food is chicken fat, which is a quality fat, with a lower melting point than say beef tallow and is easily digested by the dog. The carbohydrate sources are corn and oats, both of which are excellent sources of energy. It is important to remember that some foods include cereals as a source of protein, eg corn gluten meal, soybean meal. XP3020 uses cereal as a carbohydrate source only. XP3020 also includes Glucosamine and Chondroitin which have been shown to be particularly helpful in managing joints in humans and dogs. These work far better when used in conjunction with one another than they do when used solo. The inclusion of Fruit, berries, and herbs in this food is a big bonus, as these ingredients provide natural anti-oxidants and give the food an holistic approach to feeding. So the overall formulation of this food, in my opinion, is excellent. BY THE WAY As Stormie has quite correctly pointed out, some manufacturers use wet ingedients (like "fresh Chicken) to make it appear that the food has plenty of meat in it. But fresh chicken is 80% water, so if it was number one ingredient in the above formulation for example, there would only be 6% protein as the rest would be water. AND LET ME ADD - you will surprised at the number of foods on the market which do this to make foods appear better than they really are. Ingredient splitting is another way manufacturers make appealing ingredients appear higher up the list. Beware of products that have similar ingredients in them but using a different name or more than two sources of carbohydrate. PROTEIN AND FAT PERCENTAGES. For years I have heard owners say "too much protein" "too high in fat" about different foods. Please remember this. Dogs eat grams of food, not percentages. You can only determine the amount of protein and fat being consumed by your dog when you take into account the amount of food you need to feed the dog. Premium foods, in general, are MUCH higher in metablisable energy then other foods. What this means is they are more concentrated, are higher in digestibility (which is why the dogs have smaller motions) or to put it another way, the dog gets more out of each gram it eats. SO YOU ACTUALLY FEED LESS OF THESE FOODS THAN YOU DO OF LESSOR QUALITY FOODS. THEREFOR THE DOG ACTUALLY MAY EAT LESS PROTEIN AND FAT THAN IT WOULD ON A POORER QUALITY FOOD. For Example - XP3020 would have a Metabolisable Energy (ME) of about 4350 kcals per kg. So if a dog requires 1000 kcals per day it will eat 230 grams of food - result - it eats 69 grams of protein and 46 grams of fat. Compare this with a food of 22% protein 14% fat which has an ME of say 3000 kcals per kg The same dog will eat 333 grams of food to meet its energy requirement and therefor will eat 73 grams of protein and 47 grams of fat. SO WHICH IS THE LOWER PROTEIN AND FAT FOOD - the one with the higher percentages. And why is this the case - higher quality ingredients and higher Digestibility means you feed less food BECAUSE IT IS BETTER QUALITY. I am sorry that this post is lengthy, but nutrition is a complex subject. I am delighted that everyone who has contributed to this topic has done so because they have an interest in feeding their dog well. There are many ways to feed a dog well, and I hope this helps you make a sound decision when determining how best to feed you dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brighton Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I reposted above post from the XP3020 topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Just Curious......but wondering if XP3020 are paid advertisers on DOL That last post, which we have had before on the other XP3020 thread, a bit long winded for someone merely making a comment or offering an opinion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Who cares I am pretty sure we have had threads on almost every brand imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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