Keshwar Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 In this video there are two grand Champions racing, and 3 or 4 of these dogs were shown the two days before this. :) Just some:) food for thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeluca Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Ok for starters I mentioned the words some and most alot which to me does not mean I said how All dogs live As i have mentioned if there are fantastic breeders out there otherwise what would be the point of this discussion/forum. We Judge backyard breeders and puppy farmer. (With every right IMO) but theses people/businesses are fighting back with allegations of their own. And if they did not have a substantial argument they would have been shut down and ignored by influencing bodies, eg government, vet specialists. Vets don't know every individual breed, but they do know general and there has been enough go though their doors for them to have developed opinions disagreeable with our ways.Some Vets are actually recommending cross bred dogs to their clients. I know of Vets whom are helping their vet nurses cross breed her pets. Most the allegations stem from the dogs seen to be the best of our breeds and kennels, and the problem is some of the complaints are legitimate, which is how they discredit our arguments against them. If some one was to cry "oh look that border collie is chasing sheep" who would listen??? But when at a dog with titles from our most prestigious events people say " whats that sound, is it that the dog breathing?" for example. We aren't going to be able to stop idiots breeding unhealthy dogs unethically outside our organisation. But we can within. Kennel clubs, judges and breeders have to stop celebrating dogs with issues, everything from a goldie and large as a large german shepherd, a bulldog whom HAS to have assistance to birth or can't breath with ease or any other issue between and disqualify or ban from breeding breeders who lack health care in their dogs . Take away their argument we would have a better outlook on the future of our dogs and have a stance against those whom farm so to speak. Keshwar, Those vids are great and this is the sort of things i think the public need to see more of. Oh and i love those ears so cute :D Edited March 13, 2012 by Angeluca Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 .Big coats, in effect, tend to make dogs less fit for serving as the family dog. . . . What an absurd sentiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Seriously Sandgrubber. If a family can't look after coat, it is too bloody easy, don't buy a coated breed, there are plenty of breeds to choose from. But honestly the care a coated breed gets in the AVERAGE household would mean that it is generally not going to have the huge profuse coat that a showdog would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alyosha Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Some of my dogs have big coats, are family pets before showdogs, live life to the full and are likely better suited to their role of serving as family pets than many shortcoated pet dogs living in backyards all over the country Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Double coated breeds like Border Collies don't grow much coat if they are used for serious work. A dog running 40kms a day simply doesn't get the coat that a show/perfomance dog in suburbia does. Even with a good run and lots of activity every day the the suburban dog will generally have much more coat than it's litter mate on a large acreage. My theory is that when the body temperature is constantly up from work, the coat doesn't grow. If you own an obsessive dog that left to it's own devices, runs all day, you need to confine it if you want to keep any condition or coat on it. Weight also makes a difference. Most underweight dogs will not grow a decent coat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Ok for starters I mentioned the words some and most alot which to me does not mean I said how All dogs live As i have mentioned if there are fantastic breeders out there otherwise what would be the point of this discussion/forum. We Judge backyard breeders and puppy farmer. (With every right IMO) but theses people/businesses are fighting back with allegations of their own. And if they did not have a substantial argument they would have been shut down and ignored by influencing bodies, eg government, vet specialists. Vets don't know every individual breed, but they do know general and there has been enough go though their doors for them to have developed opinions disagreeable with our ways.Some Vets are actually recommending cross bred dogs to their clients. I know of Vets whom are helping their vet nurses cross breed her pets. Most the allegations stem from the dogs seen to be the best of our breeds and kennels, and the problem is some of the complaints are legitimate, which is how they discredit our arguments against them. If some one was to cry "oh look that border collie is chasing sheep" who would listen??? But when at a dog with titles from our most prestigious events people say " whats that sound, is it that the dog breathing?" for example. We aren't going to be able to stop idiots breeding unhealthy dogs unethically outside our organisation. But we can within. Kennel clubs, judges and breeders have to stop celebrating dogs with issues, everything from a goldie and large as a large german shepherd, a bulldog whom HAS to have assistance to birth or can't breath with ease or any other issue between and disqualify or ban from breeding breeders who lack health care in their dogs . Take away their argument we would have a better outlook on the future of our dogs and have a stance against those whom farm so to speak. Keshwar, Those vids are great and this is the sort of things i think the public need to see more of. Oh and i love those ears so cute :D And then there are examples like my friend who paid double the price that my breed costs, for a "cross-bred" of one of the very very popular "new" breeds, that now has luxating patellas and is about to cost her a fortune.... the vet you're talking about would probably be very happy about that. Showing should be about making sure that the breed conforms to the standard and is staying consistent - so a sheltie is always a sheltie. In the working dog group, all the standards say that the dog has to be fit for work. Poor conformation is not going to win in the ring. Backyard sheltie breeders who cross the breed with toy breeds, or put two merles together because "they are there" are the issue - not the show ring dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Working dog coats: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) Show coats: (the difference between the working dog coats and the show coats? Grooming. They are the same dogs and the photos were not taken that far apart. Amazing what a bath and blowdry etc - and a bit of 'presentation' can do ;) ). Don't be fooled into thinking show dogs are not 'real dogs'. They are not 'on show' all the time and apprearances can be deceptive - in both directions. Edited March 14, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angeluca Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Show coats: (the difference between the working dog coats and the show coats? Grooming. They are the same dogs and the photos were not taken that far apart. Amazing what a bath and blowdry etc can do ;) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffordLUV Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 IMO if a dog cant do the job it was breed for (excluding fighting dogs of course) then it has deviated from that breed. The breed standards were created to keep certain characteristics for THAT breed, which includes the dog's original purpose. With the breeding of extreme traits ie short legs,short faces, long coats,over long backs etc some show dogs today simply dont fit their own standard. Modern SHOW GSD for example would simply not be able to perform as a herding animal. Fox Terriers have also changed unable to move properly to chase a fox,deeper chests and far too big to go to ground after fox. cocker spaniels now only fit to mop floors as they would not be able to perform there intended purpose, they have grown in size and coat making them unable to retrieve and flush birds from under low bushes. The bulldog is a sad sad sad example of what show breeders have done to destroy a once full capable and fit breed, its now a dog that has so many problems its almost cruel to keep breeding them. They have breathing issues and breeding issues and any dog that has to be AIed and C section just to keep the breed going should have long died out. Labradors that look like a keg with short legs and deep chests, how the heck is that meant to swim? The Pug- well you hear it before you see it, the poor bloody dog cant enjoy family life, chase a ball with the kids or even go for long walks. Breathing problems out the wahzoo,skin problems,Luxating Patella,Stenotic Nares, eyes that pop out of their damn heads. Luckily they dont really have a "job" to do becasue they would be incapable of anything except sitting around and struggling to breath ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 IMO if a dog cant do the job it was breed for (excluding fighting dogs of course) then it has deviated from that breed. The breed standards were created to keep certain characteristics for THAT breed, which includes the dog's original purpose. With the breeding of extreme traits ie short legs,short faces, long coats,over long backs etc some show dogs today simply dont fit their own standard. Modern SHOW GSD for example would simply not be able to perform as a herding animal. Fox Terriers have also changed unable to move properly to chase a fox,deeper chests and far too big to go to ground after fox. cocker spaniels now only fit to mop floors as they would not be able to perform there intended purpose, they have grown in size and coat making them unable to retrieve and flush birds from under low bushes. The bulldog is a sad sad sad example of what show breeders have done to destroy a once full capable and fit breed, its now a dog that has so many problems its almost cruel to keep breeding them. They have breathing issues and breeding issues and any dog that has to be AIed and C section just to keep the breed going should have long died out. Labradors that look like a keg with short legs and deep chests, how the heck is that meant to swim? The Pug- well you hear it before you see it, the poor bloody dog cant enjoy family life, chase a ball with the kids or even go for long walks. Breathing problems out the wahzoo,skin problems,Luxating Patella,Stenotic Nares, eyes that pop out of their damn heads. Luckily they dont really have a "job" to do becasue they would be incapable of anything except sitting around and struggling to breath ;) Wow you certainly are a charmer! So all the dogs of these breeds in the above rant are rubbish? You must have met a hell of a lot of dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffordLUV Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) can you discredit any of these? Are you saying GSD HAVEN'T changed for the worst? Are bulldogs the fit dogs they once were? And yes i have met a lot of dogs ;) And i see by your avatar it was probably too close to home ;) Edited March 15, 2012 by StaffordLUV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 You shouldn't presume Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 IMO if a dog cant do the job it was breed for (excluding fighting dogs of course) then it has deviated from that breed. The breed standards were created to keep certain characteristics for THAT breed, which includes the dog's original purpose. With the breeding of extreme traits ie short legs,short faces, long coats,over long backs etc some show dogs today simply dont fit their own standard. Modern SHOW GSD for example would simply not be able to perform as a herding animal. Fox Terriers have also changed unable to move properly to chase a fox,deeper chests and far too big to go to ground after fox. cocker spaniels now only fit to mop floors as they would not be able to perform there intended purpose, they have grown in size and coat making them unable to retrieve and flush birds from under low bushes. The bulldog is a sad sad sad example of what show breeders have done to destroy a once full capable and fit breed, its now a dog that has so many problems its almost cruel to keep breeding them. They have breathing issues and breeding issues and any dog that has to be AIed and C section just to keep the breed going should have long died out. Labradors that look like a keg with short legs and deep chests, how the heck is that meant to swim? The Pug- well you hear it before you see it, the poor bloody dog cant enjoy family life, chase a ball with the kids or even go for long walks. Breathing problems out the wahzoo,skin problems,Luxating Patella,Stenotic Nares, eyes that pop out of their damn heads. Luckily they dont really have a "job" to do becasue they would be incapable of anything except sitting around and struggling to breath ;) Hence why there has been a split in lines or 'types' of dogs in breeds. The show versions do what they were bred for, showing, the working types do what the breeds were originally bred for. It is a tricky situation, as most dogs don't go to families who will use them for their intended purpose, they simply want them as family companions, or occasionally as obedience comp or agility pets ect :) They no longer have to herd in the feilds or day or be fit enough to chase game for hours on end I am not saying i don't agree with you, but unfortunately most breeds don't need to do the work they were once bred for. And yes common sense should say 'well if this breed can't reproduce on their own why are they still going', in all seriousness though, the wake up call should of been eons ago. Winning looks in the show ring. There are still dogs within these breeds who can and do perform the jobs they were bred for :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 IMO if a dog cant do the job it was breed for (excluding fighting dogs of course) then it has deviated from that breed. The breed standards were created to keep certain characteristics for THAT breed, which includes the dog's original purpose. Modern SHOW GSD for example would simply not be able to perform as a herding animal. All evidence to the contrary at the herding trials in this state last year with a few GSDs gaining their titles (that are show dogs as well). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hence why there has been a split in lines or 'types' of dogs in breeds. The show versions do what they were bred for, showing, the working types do what the breeds were originally bred for. I would note the thread on testingfor breed funtion here - http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/235280-testing-for-breed-function/ So called 'working' types have also been changed by working trials and tests too and are not necessarily doing what they were originally bred for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) IMO if a dog cant do the job it was breed for (excluding fighting dogs of course) then it has deviated from that breed. The breed standards were created to keep certain characteristics for THAT breed, which includes the dog's original purpose. Modern SHOW GSD for example would simply not be able to perform as a herding animal. All evidence to the contrary at the herding trials in this state last year with a few GSDs gaining their titles (that are show dogs as well). Particularly now that trials more suited to the style of herding (tending) performed by GSD have been recently introduced in Australia. As more trials are held we will likely see more breeds such as GSD competing. Edited March 15, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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