Bilbo Baggins Posted March 11, 2012 Share Posted March 11, 2012 Judy Gard and myself have worked on Show Secretary's today and have got them thinking about adding Neuter Classes. I plan on contacting the Newborough Sec and the Darnum Sec to get an idea of how many other dogs accompanied a Neuter. Work out income/outgoing. Then sort an action plan for donations . This will be for next years Noorat Shows. Schedule has to be sorted by August. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakbelgian Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Good luck in your quest. I don't have a Neuter but I think it would be great if club's could run this class. BB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sniffalot Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Would love Neuter at Noorat, the only reason we are going to Mt Gambier over easter instead of the Melbourne shows is for the Neuter classes and we will be bringing another 6 dogs along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capanash Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sir sniffalot... same deal with us! Except we are only taking two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Same here - going to Mt Gambier because of Neuter (& good judges) and taking another 5 - Melb shows miss my entries (Plus friends who decide to come with me) :D . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sniffalot Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Sounds like Mt Gambier is going to have a great neuter turn out, l know of a few more neuters heading over from Vic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) Well I believe we need to put our money where our mouth is and get some donations happening. I plan to get a cost analysis together for the 3 Gippsland shows and Cranbourne as part of my arguement for presenting the Noorat Shows for next year. Donation will $20 per group which is for $10 for a sash $10 for in group prize So need 7 donations for each show x 5 shows @$20 therefore $140 per show Donation for In Show $10 for sash $20 for prize So need 1 donation for each show x 5 shows @$30 therefore $30 per show. Edited for correction. Edited March 14, 2012 by Bilbo Baggins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 (edited) BB good on you - get those donations together and it costs the club nothing and they get to keep the entry money! Ummmmm you might want to check your maths per show however - or were you planning on only one group getting the $10 in group prize? EF typos Edited March 13, 2012 by RuralPug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisart Dobes Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 OK - don't want to be a thorn in your project but the Neuter entries for Grp 6 at Warragul were Akita 1 Dobe 2 Rotty 2 & there was one other but can't remember the breed sorry. So 6 Neuter entries for Grp 6. 6 x $11.00 = $66.00 for Neuter entries - the sash is a normal sash but its been a while since I ordered them for a club so not sure on costs now - lets say around $5.00 - that still leaves $61.00 for the clubs costs. I entered another 3 dogs at that show also and left Noorat to go to Warragul for the neuter class. Other exh in grp 6 had 3 / 3 and 4 entries above their neuters and they entered there because of the class being offered. So in total that is 17 entries they got because of the neuter class - an additional 200 + with catalogues plus food etc purchased and this was Grp 6 only. Sorry, but I don't think that we should have to donate to have the clubs run the class - they just need to realise that they are getting extra entries because they offer the class. I am going to send in notes to clubs offering shows that I bypass for the neuter class and telling them of the entries they are not getting and why. Having said that - I am happy to donate the occasional NIG / NIS Sash but don't think that it should be something clubs require. Also, if Noorat shows are held on those grounds next year they won't be getting any of my entries, not after having my girl end up with a sprung toe on Sat PM while in the ring due to the awful surface. I cannot justify a dog out of the ring for the next 6 weeks, physio bills and vet bills to rehab her and lets not even go there when it comes to my knee, ankle, back etc and I know I am not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I think the neuter class has been here for long enough for people not to have to pay clubs to hold the class. If the clubs can't see they get increased entries by offering the class then more fools them. For how long are people going to keep giving clubs money to hold the neuter class? Sooner or later it has to stand on its own. I've donated in the past and no doubt will do so in the future but I actually prefer to support the smaller clubs in the country with a donation, neuter class or not. No good having neuter class if the amount of shows they can be offered at decreases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayreovi Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I agree with Bisart and Rebanne. I don't agree that exhibitors should be paying to have the class included when it's been known that it pays for itself with the other entries that come with neuter dogs! I like showing, but not enough to have to pay them just so they will hold the class! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Clubs need entry fees for a lot more than just sashes and awards they have to hire grounds and equipment, pay judges and stewards fees, transport, accomodation, meals, pay VCA fees, print catalogues etc. etc. Forgive my ignorance but there are a lot of classes clubs don't bother to hold, limit, state bred etc. and there must be some reason...is there a maximum number of breed classes they are permitted to offer? Is it the extra judging time? Could a club secretary please come into this conversation and explain the reluctance to hold these classes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 BB good on you - get those donations together and it costs the club nothing and they get to keep the entry money! Ummmmm you might want to check your maths per show however - or were you planning on only one group getting the $10 in group prize? EF typos Think you might of read it wrong RuralPug. 7 groups per show = 7 donations of $50 per show ;) ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted March 13, 2012 Author Share Posted March 13, 2012 Bisart Dobes and Rebanne you right but donations were given to Ovens Valley last year. I believe negotians are underway to obtain the footy oval again. The ground was atrocious. That said exibitors did leave a lot of rubbish behind which some late stayers including myself picked up. The worst was the smokers with butts everywhere. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I have got 2 clubs working on figures for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuralPug Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Donation will $50 which is for $20 for 2 sashes. $20 for in show prize $10 for In group prize. So we need 7 donations for each show x 5 shows. Ummmmm you might want to check your maths per show however - or were you planning on only one group getting the $10 in group prize? Think you might of read it wrong RuralPug. 7 groups per show = 7 donations of $50 per show ;) ;) Whoops! I read it as 7 x shows $50 each. So if there is 7 x $50 per show donated, then the club will have $140 for 14 sashes, $140 for class in show prize and $70 for 7 x class in group prizes? Will look forward to seeing the breakdown of figures so we can understand the reluctance and then take steps to overcome it. I tend to agree with BB, it will most likely be either financial or a perception of financial (e.g. a lot of extra work for secs for very little return). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I keep seeing Best Neuter in Group/Show being mentioned, I have to point out there is NO provision within the rules for such awards. If the club is only offering class 18/18a then the only awards to be judged and awarded in Best Open Neuter in Group and Best Open Neuter in Show. If the club is offering multiple neuter classes, it is just the same individual class in group/show awards. There is no equivelent to Best in Group or Best in Show for neuters and as such, no run offs between the neuter classes for best neuter in group or show. The ribbon requirements for a would be 7 class in Group for each neuter class offered and 1 class in show for each neuter class offered. If only class 18 is offered then only 8 ribbons are needed for a show. Each state differs in what prizes have to be given, but unless every other class in group (minor,junior, open etc) receives a $10 prize none would be needed for the neuter classes. I think it is fairly standard that classes in show receive a prize, so one would be required for each neuter class offered. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Baggins Posted March 14, 2012 Author Share Posted March 14, 2012 I keep seeing Best Neuter in Group/Show being mentioned, I have to point out there is NO provision within the rules for such awards. If the club is only offering class 18/18a then the only awards to be judged and awarded in Best Open Neuter in Group and Best Open Neuter in Show. If the club is offering multiple neuter classes, it is just the same individual class in group/show awards. There is no equivelent to Best in Group or Best in Show for neuters and as such, no run offs between the neuter classes for best neuter in group or show. The ribbon requirements for a would be 7 class in Group for each neuter class offered and 1 class in show for each neuter class offered. If only class 18 is offered then only 8 ribbons are needed for a show. Each state differs in what prizes have to be given, but unless every other class in group (minor,junior, open etc) receives a $10 prize none would be needed for the neuter classes. I think it is fairly standard that classes in show receive a prize, so one would be required for each neuter class offered. Graham Okay re doing figures. Thanks GRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Bisart Dobes and Rebanne you right but donations were given to Ovens Valley last year. Yes and mainly cause no one had any figures yet. OVCC being the first all breeds club in the state to offer the class. I have written a long reply in the other Neuter class thread with break down of costs etc. There is no need for anyone to have to donate, neuters pay for themselves. It's why I knocked back donations this year, there is no need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeerGrif Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 I am the show secretary for Warragul dog club and I do not think clubs should expect donations for the neuter classes. I was very happy to include them for the right reasons...that is to promote the dog show world to more people and refresh the whole scene.The clubs are making so much extra money for very little output, but more importantly they are stepping up to the mark and leading the way for others to follow. Tradition is what controls what classes are placed on the schedule a well as time frames I'm guessing. It will take some time to change the majority of peoples minds with this but it will come..the smart ones are getting in early and gaining their titles now. Overall we had 39 neuters entered...I will have to check the dog entries for the other classes they brought in. Give me a few days as I'm off to Kerang/ Cohuna this weekend so am very busy getting organized for that in between working. I would also like to hear from you all about how you feel about when and how you are judged. I get the feeling that neuters are treated like poor cousins...maybe that is to be expected initially in this pure breed world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeerGrif Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Graham, I have just read your explanation.Fantastic..so clear. Could you please ask the ANKC to add this to their neuter explanation section because I was virtually bullied by a guy from another melbourne dog club on Sunday at our warragul show that there was only a neuter in show and no classes.He would not believe me when I stated that he was incorrect and that there were 4 neuter classes available now. I had put up 2 neuter classes and he was ranting at me. He has not kept up with the latest info.but the last part you explained is not clear enough in the Dogs Vic magazine...so lots of confusion especially because most clubs are giving a neuter in show sash. We only had open on show and junior in show thanks to excellent guidance from one of the neuter exhibitors. Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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