Nsw Breeders - Heads Up

[Steve]

Petition, from the NSW Animal Welfare League, trying to stop puppy farms - $ 500 licences, with inspections each year and randomly by AWL and RSPCA

http://www.awlnsw.com.au/

http://www.awlnsw.com.au/dogs-deserve-better.html

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/659/566/554/?z00m=20228308

[WreckitWhippet]

beats the hell out of me why they need to pay a $500 fee and be subject to inspections. Those that are well set up will simply shell out the $$ and continue on their merry way. Those that are breeding pups in the sticks, with no visitors will continue to do so and there will be nothing in the petition that will help any dogs that live in such places, who may happen to be in less than ideal conditions.

Those who are breeding in substanard conditions, can already be inspected and prosecuted by the RSPCA at any time and everyone can be subject to council inspection.

Now watch the magical number of puppies be drawn in the sand in the coming months and the registered breeders cop yet another flogging.

People who sign such petitions are idiots

Edited March 11, 2012 by Pav Lova

[BJean]

Isn’t the Licence fee a significant impost to breeders who are already doing the right thing?

The licensing scheme would get rid of unethical breeders, meaning ethical breeders would have less competition. This would more than compensate for any financial inconvenience from the Licence fee.

Would pounds, shelters and rescue groups require a Breeding Licence?

No, an authorised rescue number would enable them to rehome rescue puppies or kittens.

What if my dog or cat has an accidental litter but I don’t want to apply for a Breeder Licence as it’s a one-off occurrence?

You could surrender the litter to a shelter who will rehome them for you.

Get farkd.

May the Troy powers at DOL land forgive me for my inability to pen an intelligent and mature reply (but my disgust at the repressive state of affairs I could not contain).

May the one God grant me my Exit visas.

[Alyosha]

Another attempt to officially support those making more profit from their animals.

[BJean]

beats the hell out of me why they need to pay a $500 fee and be subject to inspections. Those that are well set up will simply shell out the $$ and continue on their merry way. Those that are breeding pups in the sticks, with no visitors will continue to do so and there will be nothing in the petition that will help any dogs that live in such places, who may happen to be in less than ideal conditions.

Those who are breeding in substanard conditions, can already be inspected and prosecuted by the RSPCA at any time and everyone can be subject to council inspection.

Now watch the magical number of puppies be drawn in the sand in the coming months and the registered breeders cop yet another flogging.

People who sign such petitions are idiots

Maybe we should start a new petition, to curb the Reproductive Breeding Rights of such idiots (Reproductive Breeding rights only because we recognise the majority are young and at university, and recreational breeding rights will give them something to do when they are not signing petitions).

Edited March 11, 2012 by lilli

[Jumabaar]

Well I consider myself ethical and there is NO WAY I can afford to be ANOTHER $500 out of pocket for one litter.....

Now those unscrupulous breeders will clearly really feel the extra $10 they add to the cost of each of those litters

Oh and I can just dump my litters at the pound and have them get rid of it for me for free and probably save myself a heap of money and not have to be licensed

Sigh

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Would it get up under the current State Government?

At some point someone needs to make the call about when we start writing to our elected representatives. Assume that would be the ANKC/DogsNSW but I don't want to give these idiots credence if they don't have a hope of getting a hearing.

[Rebanne]

Isn’t the Licence fee a significant impost to breeders who are already doing the right thing?

The licensing scheme would get rid of unethical breeders, meaning ethical breeders would have less competition. This would more than compensate for any financial inconvenience from the Licence fee.

Get farkd.

May the Troy powers at DOL land forgive me for my inability to pen an intelligent and mature reply (but my disgust at the repressive state of affairs I could not contain).

May the one God grant me my Exit visas.

so they are basicaly suggesting ethical breeders put up the price of their pups to cover the licence fee and people will still buy them cause there aren't many other options.

[mita]

This is going after the wrong people.

Registered breeders are hobby breeders, not puppy farmers

. And there's evidence that they mainly do the right thing in caring for their dogs & raising the puppies properly. Breeding for profit is not their thing.

So , frankly, the authorities should be giving them a $500 bonus for not producing animals more likely to have welfare problems!!! :)

Who could afford $500 a year for a licence? The people who breed in numbers and ways that can make a profit. Doesn't matter if their outbuildings are clean & other living conditions are fine. Socialisation. 'What's that?' Saying 'no' to buyers who are not suitable. 'You joking, saying no to money?' Controlling numbers of litters. "Why? That's money in the bank!"

If this goes ahead, it'll drive out the registered breeders doing the right thing by their dogs & puppies. And make an 'approved' niche for profit-makers who keep up appearances & rake in the money.

What is happening with RSPCA NSW? First they make an agreement with pet stores about selling puppies. Now, they're putting pressure on the breeder group who've been found, generally, to be most all round welfare- conscious re their dogs & puppies.

The world's gone mad.

Edited March 11, 2012 by mita

[MelodysMum]

It's really scary! I couldn't believe it when I saw people who I thought should have known better sharing it on their FB page. It is not the RSPCA though, it is the AWL.

[mita]

It's really scary! It is not the RSPCA though, it is the AWL.

Thanks for that, Wendy. Sorry, RSPCA NSW.

AWL NSW should get more input on what they're proposing.

[StaffordLUV]

i cant see the problem, if you are doing the right thing then nothing to worry about simple.

Isnt the closing down of puppy farms and unethical breeders what you all want?

[Jumabaar]

i cant see the problem, if you are doing the right thing then nothing to worry about simple.

Isnt the closing down of puppy farms and unethical breeders what you all want?

I am not doing anything wrong but I couldn't even cover costs in my two litters in the past 6 years. I would have to stop breeding because the $3000 spent in registration fees would mean that I couldn't provide the care I want to give my dogs. And it would be the same for the ethical breeders I would chose to breed from so in 15years time (longer I hope) I would be left with no one to buy my dogs from because the only people able to afford the fee would be commercial kennels who have managed to tick the boxes, not the small hobby breeder who takes time off work for socialisation and gives each pup all the individual TLC that they deserve.

Also how is my premises inspected? It doesn't currently meet guidelines I don't think because my dogs sleep on (or under) my bed, they are forced to sleep on the lounge of all places when I go out!!

I want unethical breeders removed- but I don't think this is the way to go about it.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Jumabaar

[WreckitWhippet]

i cant see the problem, if you are doing the right thing then nothing to worry about simple.

Isnt the closing down of puppy farms and unethical breeders what you all want?

Would you say that I have nothing to worry about ?

Honest question here

[Souff]

i cant see the problem, if you are doing the right thing then nothing to worry about simple.

Isnt the closing down of puppy farms and unethical breeders what you all want?

Well, a $500 licence is not going to close down any puppy farms.

They will be the first to get the licence and get a licence for each stinking property they use.

Souff

[MelodysMum]

I made a comment about this on animal behaviourist Joanne Righetti's FB page where she was urging people to sign the petition. I said that I understood what they were trying to do, but that many registered, small hobby breeders who produced wonderful dogs would not be able to afford the annual fee. Tim Vasudeva CEO of the NSW Animal Welfare League responded and I have been having an ongoing discussion with him.

ETA, I have removed the quote by Tim Vasudeva, as I probably shouldn't put it on here, let's just say he thinks that all breeders sell their puppies for $1500 each, litters have at least five puppies in them and all breeders should be able to cover their costs or they aren't trying!

I replied to him -

I don't know what sort of puppies you are talking about, but the breed of dog that I own is $800-$850 per puppy, not $1500. When you have paid for genetic testing for your dogs, hip scoring, eye testing etc., progesterone tests to ensure the bitch is ovulating, sometimes artificial insemination, ultrasounds, stud fee, vet's fees for difficult deliveries or C-sections, vaccinations and micro-chipping of the puppies, etc., it will be very difficult to cover costs. Not everyone is lucky enough to get 5 puppies in a litter!!

Registered breeders already pay annual membership to the canine council (DogsNSW), to their respective breed clubs, and annual prefix fee on top of all that. Some breeders don't even have one litter every year, so how can they afford to pay an annual fee of $500?

I am not saying it won't close down some of the large-scale breeders, I am saying it will also cause a lot of the small registered breeders to stop breeding. Why should the ones who are doing the right thing have to subsidise a scheme to stop the ones who are doing the wrong thing? Why penalise the people who are doing it right?

Edited March 11, 2012 by WendyH

[casowner]

I don't even breed but that narrow minded and ill informed attitude really makes me concerned about the future of companion animals

[Katie P]

I don't have anything useful to add but..... and I immediately think of the smaller breeds who may only get one or two pups in a litter and keep them or sell just one......cos THAT is definitely making a profit, especially if they have paid a stud fee, done an AI, health checks, vet costs, food costs/everything else or imported semen etc plus another useless $500 down the drain to them. Why bother?

Edited for spelling.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Katie P

[MelodysMum]

I really do understand what they are trying to do, and I think it is great that they are trying to stop puppy farmers, but I don't think this is the way to go about it.

I don't know what the answer is!

[alpha bet]

The sad thing is that Govt groups don't even need to put a registration fee in place - there is already a system that could easily be expanded.

In theory, anyone operating a puppy farm would need to have a license thru their council. This could be where an annual fee could be charged to anyone operating breeding situations on a commercial scale - in these cases the council and rspca already have authority to inspect the premises under the conditions of the planning permit - then issued with a Breed License Number

Breeders who are hobby breeders with less than (i think its usually 5 breeding dogs) should not need to come under this scheme especially if they already belong to the recognised state Breed Association - their membership number can be used as a Breed License Number.

The most simple solution would be to provide a Bill thru Government that states that no dogs can be sold without a microchip from the point of production. This would mean that Petshops cannot bring puppies in without records of where they come and who they have been sold to - using microchip numbers

Hence then stats could be developed to indicate for rescue/pounds where and how many pups are come from byb, puppy farms or even registered breeders. Rescue groups could trace back to the initial source..... how cool would that be....

The main thing then is to educate the public that it is law that a pup must be microchipped and with first vaccination when sold. Even a family having one accidental litter either has to surrender to welfare or pay for a vet to microchip so they can sell the pups.

Vets already check for microchips and fill out transfer of ownership for new puppy owners - if they find pups without microchip then the new owners would usually be happy to say where they purchased the pup and this can be written up with the new microchip - Computer programs are quite capable of recording the string of owners back to point of origin and this would allow red flags to show if there is many repeats of the same address appearing as origin. Especially when no Breed License Number is given.

Might seem a bit complicated but this system has already been tested - Used with cattle, sheep etc - Markets, Wholesalers, Butchers have to identify where they source their product. One good thing is that puppy farms and pet shops would have to spend extra money as well as keep accurate records (that can be inspected) whereas Registered Breeders are already required to keep this info - so more work and more expense for puppy farms and pet shops but not for the registered breeders.