Barking And Anti-bark Collars

[Michelleva]

I have a 2yo sheltie who is by definition a yappy little dog.. she doesn't bark all day and night by any stretch but she's very reactive to any noise that the neighbours might make, or if someone walks past the house. If she's outside she will almost attack the fence if she hears them in the backyard. She is an inside dog, but even when she's inside she can escalate very quickly. She has a high pitch bark and sometimes she goes woo, woo, woo and it almost sounds like a high pitch howl.

In the past I've yelled at her, said NO, clapped hands, but none of it has really worked, if anything it makes her worse. One thing I've figured with her is I need to use a lot of non-verbal ways to train her. Any sound just excites her and when she's excited she barks. Actually I think she barks for every emotion she has.

Soo... I've been thinking about getting a anti-bark collar, I know some are really expensive and there are cheap ones on Ebay. Can anyone recommend one that works well.

I have no problem with a dog giving a warning bark, she just lacks the ability to stop, she just keeps going. The last few days I've been experimenting with being super positive. When she starts barking for no good reason, like the neighbours turned on a tap I call her in a happy voice and when she comes and sits, I give her a treat. At that point she forgets all about what she was barking at in the first place.

Any info or advice is appreciated.

[sheena]

My daughter tried one of those cheap ones from Ebay...the ones that give an ultrasonic when the dog barks. It was going off everytime the dog scratched, yawned, ran or what ever & just confused the poor dog. Better off with a hand held ultrasonic (you can get them off ebay) & when she barks push the button at the same time as you say "no" or whatever your're "bad" word is. Or you could just try a spray water bottle. Problem with both methods is you have to be there when she does it. At two years old, you might be pushing up hill a bit, but others might have some better ideas.

[bianca.a]

I have a Petsafe collar like this one but the code on mine is BC-103.

http://www.barkcontrol.com.au/buy/petsafe-advanced-bark-control-collar-pbc-102/21

My girl started going nuts when the house next door sold and the new owner moved in. Molly is an inside dog too but we do play in the back yard and she goes out to toilet of course.

Molly is ball OBSESSED but if she hears the neighbour she will drop her ball and go to the fence and carry on. I really have struggled with this behaviour.

Now she will bark once or twice and that is it. To me a happier neighbour is worth it.

[Michelleva]

What about the citronella collars? I was looking at this one. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MULTIVET-INNOTEK-ANTI-BARK-CITRONELLA-SPRAY-DOG-COLLAR-/300641789193?pt=AU_Pet_Supplies&hash=item45ffa5a509

ETA - the training I've been doing with her has worked this week. I'm no longer getting worked up by her barking, just calmly calling her over, getting her to sit and treating her. At the moment she thinks all her Christmases have come at once.. she's getting bits of cut up carrot, they're her favourite. :laugh:

I'm doing the same if she starts carrying on outside. She can be outside for 2 hours and I don't hear a peep, but other times she can be bad straight away. I think for the next few weeks I'll continue the positive training that I'm doing and see how we go. Shelties are sensitive little dogs, so the more positive I can make it the better.

Another thing I'm trying is NILIF.. now every morning before she's allowed outside, she gets a 5 min brush, which she hates with a passion but tolerates because she's figured next is fun run around time.

[cowanbree]

I personally wouldn't use a bark collar on a sheltie unless there was no other option and if I had to I think I would try the air jets one that send out a hiss of compressed air. Personally I have great success with my spray bottle. I don't aim to stop barking as such as that is unrealistic with a sheltie but rather that they should stop when told quiet and barking such as at a neighbour who comes and goes 100 times a day is unacceptable.

[huski]

I am not a fan of citronella collars. They have a much lower success rate than electric bark collars and the aversive (the smell of citronella) hangs around on the dogs coat long after its barked so the punishment is not clear.

I wouldn't buy a cheapie collar either - you generally get what you pay for and if you were going to use one, better off using a good quality one IMO.

[Erny]

I agree with Huski.

In addition, with a good quality anti-bark electronic collar, you can pretty much set the stim level at just what is needed - not more, nor less. Can't do that with sprays.

Also, I'm not a fan of prescribing anti-bark collars to dogs without having been afforded the opportunity to observe the dog and determine if there is a subsisting cause that could do with a bit of help either instead of an anti-bark, or in conjunction with its use.

[Michelleva]

Thanks for the input guys, I hear you all. I'm not rushing out to buy a collar, but wondered if it could help her. For now I'll continue to train her using positive reinforcement and see how it goes. Its just the neighbour on one side she goes crazy at.. and they're not nice people so I don't want to rub them the wrong way.

One thing I find is if I go outside with her, she's so much better. My feeling is I need to keep her focussed on me and not every little thing that goes on around her. Today she's getting all her food hand fed as a reward for good behaviour.

[sheena]

If she is clicker trained, you could try playing the LAT game with her . It is a game that counter-conditions the dog to stimuli in it's environment

[Erny]

And is does the lay out of your home permit you to put up a barricade to increase the distance between her and the neighbours she reacts towards whilst you're working on counter conditioning and desensitisation?

Edited March 10, 2012 by Erny

[Michelleva]

And is does the lay out of your home permit you to put up a barricade to increase the distance between her and the neighbours she reacts towards whilst you're working on counter conditioning and desensitisation?

Well not really, the house is really open plan. She usually carries on at the back door. I can close the door to make it a bit harder for her, but there's not much else I can do. Our kitchen, dining and family room is all one open plan room and where we spend most of our time. Hubby is out excercising her now, so she'll be pretty tired which helps a lot too.

[Zug Zug]

Obviously try everything else first.

I did - but in the end with my older girl did end up using a good quality collar which I bought online.

It worked very well and very quickly. She was quiet within a week - I would never have thought this possible.

But unfortunately in the years before I was willing to give it a try her barking had done some fairly serious damage to our relationship with one of our neighbours. Looking back, we should have done it sooner. Most of her barking was while we were at work during the day. We were able to manage her barking when home, and she slept inside so no barking at night. I didn't realise how bad it really was until I was home for a month recovering from some surgery. She was barking every time someone walked past the house, even though she was in the back yard and about 20metres from the front of the house. That was when the penny dropped for me but even then I was reluctant to use a collar for a while.

Now - new house, new neighbours and our lovely old dog still hasn't resumed her barking which is wonderful. She wore the collar for a few weeks initially, then once or twice as a reminder for a day or so since then - in total she's worn it for less than 2 weeks. It spends its time locked in a cupboard and will come out again if needed.

We also have a young puppy and I will not let things go that far again. Luckily, so far no barking issues with this one.

Goes without saying (I hope) that we also do lots of training and exercise and the dogs get bones and things to do. So hopefully we are addressing any underlying issues that would make it hard for them to control the urge to bark.

[Michelleva]

Thank you Zug Zug.. I do have the benefit of working from home, that helps a lot. She just had her first woof woof at the back door, she came straight away when called, then she sat and calmed down and got a treat... After her treat she sat at my feet and forgot what the woof was about.

Now I need to stay consistant and I feel we'll get on top of it. I think the trick is to call her before she escalates.

[Erny]

Obviously try everything else first.

Not necessarily necessary, ZZ. Sometimes the barking is so irritating to the neighbourhood it needs to be worked on in the most efficient manner fairly quickly. Identify the causes as best as possible and acquire a bit of help with the use of an electronic anti-bark collar whilst applying other behaviour modification techniques/remedies.

Even IF the anti-bark collar fixes the barking problem, if there remains a strong underlying cause for the behaviour, it has a very high chance of manifesting in other ways, such as destructiveness. That aside, it would be very frustrating for a dog to have a driving cause but then be prohibited from being able to relieve it.

Fantastic that you worked through the problem with your dog - better late than never and we're all experts with the advantage of hindsight. And good for you for working to raise your other dog to steer away from excessive barking. :)

[Erny]

Thank you Zug Zug.. I do have the benefit of working from home, that helps a lot. She just had her first woof woof at the back door, she came straight away when called, then she sat and calmed down and got a treat... After her treat she sat at my feet and forgot what the woof was about.

Now I need to stay consistent and I feel we'll get on top of it. I think the trick is to call her before she escalates.

I used this as a part of my technique with my own boy whilst he was growing up and learning what a territory trespass was (and wasn't).

If he barks now, it is usually only once (unless a trespass is still threatened) and then simply runs to see me, wherever I might be in the house. If you can improve things this way, I think that is a bonus. I like my dog to know that barking is ok under certain situations. However, unfortunately some dogs are way over the top and the pressure of the neighbourhood can be overwhelming for everyone.

ETA: You are SPOT ON (refer my highlights).

ETA: Try putting a word in to teach her to stop. I use the word "enough". It has a carry through to different things now, in different circumstances. In my instance (it might not suit yours) my boy is only "in trouble" if he barks beyond the word "enough". This doesn't work for dogs whose barking issues extend to times when owners are not home.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Erny

[Michelleva]

Thank you Zug Zug.. I do have the benefit of working from home, that helps a lot. She just had her first woof woof at the back door, she came straight away when called, then she sat and calmed down and got a treat... After her treat she sat at my feet and forgot what the woof was about.

Now I need to stay consistent and I feel we'll get on top of it. I think the trick is to call her before she escalates.

I used this as a part of my technique with my own boy whilst he was growing up and learning what a territory trespass was (and wasn't).

If he barks now, it is usually only once (unless a trespass is still threatened) and then simply runs to see me, wherever I might be in the house. If you can improve things this way, I think that is a bonus. I like my dog to know that barking is ok under certain situations. However, unfortunately some dogs are way over the top and the pressure of the neighbourhood can be overwhelming for everyone.

ETA: You are SPOT ON (refer my highlights).

ETA: Try putting a word in to teach her to stop. I use the word "enough". It has a carry through to different things now, in different circumstances. In my instance (it might not suit yours) my boy is only "in trouble" if he barks beyond the word "enough". This doesn't work for dogs whose barking issues extend to times when owners are not home.

Thanks Erny, I will add the word, enough seems appropriate too. Well today has been a successful day. She had a couple of times where she got really worked up, but I nipped them in the bud. I was outside doing some stuff and enjoying the sunshine so I thought its the perfect opportunity for her to continue learning. At one stage she got really worked up by kids in one of the neighbouring yards, so I bought her crate outside, put her in and ignored her. She continued barking in the crate, which I ignored. At the time it felt like ages, but it was probably 5 mins, I just kept doing my own thing. Then I realised she's quiet AND calm. So I let her out again. After that, she would let out one yap, then come running sit at my feet waiting for a treat.. :laugh: she's a smart dog, and I don't believe for a second that she can't learn the appropriate behaviour.

I do feel responsible for letting this behaviour go on this long. I was really strict with her when we adopted her, I was determined to not own a ratbag annoying dog. Then she had health issues, two knee operations to be precise and we all felt so sorry for her, we let her get away with much more than she did in the beginning. But a few months ago I realised she's happy, she's not in pain and she's living in the moment. So we need to do the same, at that point the pity party stopped.

Now its onwards and upwards, I'm committed.. because IF I can have a nicely behaved dog, hubby might let me get a second one in the future.. so there's something in it for me and Georgia.

[Michelleva]

I would just like to post a bit of a positive update on my yappy fluffer...

I took your advice Erny and have been using the word enough, she's starting to respond to the word on its own, which is HUGE!!

This morning we had a major breakthrough, we have a little terrier thing that lives next door, he barks quite a bit too and when he barks, Georgia barks back.. well just now he's been barking, I was watching her, fully expecting her to react. Her ears went up, then nothing... absolutely NO REACTION... And it hasn't been that long that I've been working so intensely with her.. just proves my theory, she's a smart one, probably smarter than me.. LOL

This is my smiley girl.

[Erny]

Glad things seem to be on the improve :). Georgia looks a lovely Shelty girl, Michelleva :D

Edited March 17, 2012 by Erny

[Zug Zug]

She's gorgeous - great progress!

[Michelleva]

Thanks guys, she's incredibly cute.. but no longer ruling the roost here. We're not there yet, but definitely seeing improvement. The times she's really escalated has dropped dramatically. I only remember hearing the real fast woo woo woo bark(howl) thing once this week. She seems to be at her most alert/excited when she does that. As I keep saying to hubby she didn't get this way overnight, and it won't be fixed overnight either, as long as I see things getting better each day, I'm happy. I'm training hubby at the same time, so its an interesting excercise! :laugh: