Interesting News Out Of Crufts

[Kavik]

Slightly off topic - was watching the utility group judging - what is the difference between Akita and Akita Inu? I always thought they were two names for the same dog.

[Angeluca]

I don't show dogs so I don't know much about the process, for example how many dogs are in the BOB ring. I assume with so many entries it there is at least a cut down process so that there is only a few stage winners at the BOB ring. Maybe so an outcome did eventuate for the breed, that all the dogs in the BOB ring get the Vet exam.

This will Make more of an example if more dogs are eliminated But still Show the public that there is examples of the breed. So the Breed and breeders of the breed as a whole don't bad public rep as everything is media influenced.

I'd say in time they will find a process which will cause less backlash. That hopefully does improve the over all health of dogs bred and more breeds included in the process.

As for this being unfair to the breeders involved, it isn't fair that health wise unsatisfactory dogs are winning, nor as it isn't fair that some Judges favor certain dogs due to Kennel friendship, possibly to gain if that owner is themselves a judge or own a dog related to the dog in the show. Or there is the plain Bribery. Most won't admit it but this sort of match fixing so to speak DOES exist within the show element. I hope it isn't at these really big important shows, But i know of quite a few dogs whom have their CH, title due to show and judge selection. Having said that There are some Judges who don't know the standard of the breed they judge, so therefore get avoided. You could never really know.

Which is why I take little comfort on owning a dog from parents whom have titles. Whos to say it is legit. I personally focus on temperament of the dogs within the kennel I usually asked to see as many dogs they own as possible most have been happy to show me around and proud of what they have. Obedience titles as it shows intelligence and training ability and of course the best way to sell a pup in my opinion is be an open and honest friendly Breeder who has a genuine love for the dogs they own. You can see the relationship between breeder and dog regardless of breed when you see the breeder interact with the dogs.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Angeluca

[KumaAkita]

Slightly off topic - was watching the utility group judging - what is the difference between Akita and Akita Inu? I always thought they were two names for the same dog.

Akita is the American Akita, like my boy. Bigger and boofer. The Akita Inu is a Japanese Akita which looks a lot like a Shiba only bigger.

They originated from the same breed, with the American being bred after ww2 when the Akita was all but wiped out in Japan.

Wiki has a good explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_(dog)

Can I ask why this shouldn't be viewed in a similar vein to Drug Testing at the Olympics? Might be a very narrow and naive view, but hear me out... At the Olympics there are tens of thousands of competitors, not all of them are tested. The medal winners are, as are a random selection of athletes in high profile sports (those where there have been proven cases of steroid abuse previously, i.e. athletics, etc). I read somewhere that over 10,500 competitors will be tested during the 2012 London Games, some of these would be repeat test of competitors. The drug testing in elite sports hasn't eliminated all doping, but it has decreased the occurrence, and those who are caught are being named and shamed.

Am I being too naive with that thinking??

Edited March 9, 2012 by KumaAkita

[Saffioraire]

If you look at it differently... Governments have been using "shock tactics" for several years now to combat issues such as smoking, drink driving, speeding, drugs, etc. One would assume they have found them to be a successful means of driving a point home and hence why they continue to be used.

So in essence while you may or may not agree, surely the choice of the KC to use a 'shock tactic' of eliminating the BOB winner of a breed is one that has been thought through and based on results shown in other areas of the community.

Perhaps they have chosen to start with the 15 most obvious breeds to 'test the water' before expanding the method to a full BOB examination? Is there any documentation in regards to this so far?

IMHO I don't see why breeders should rely on a Prior Vet check, when they should jolly well spend their own money and use their own brains as to what is and isn't healthy. Second to that maybe the threat of being 'named and shamed' by having your BOB winning dog outed for health may be enough to drive those without prior inclination to the Vet? Surely making for a better dog world in the long term?

Edited to say - that while I support what they are doing I am not of the opinion that this is the only way. Just throwing out thoughts into the cyber never never!

Edited March 9, 2012 by Saffioraire

[Kavik]

Slightly off topic - was watching the utility group judging - what is the difference between Akita and Akita Inu? I always thought they were two names for the same dog.

Akita is the American Akita, like my boy. Bigger and boofer. The Akita Inu is a Japanese Akita which looks a lot like a Shiba only bigger.

They originated from the same breed, with the American being bred after ww2 when the Akita was all but wiped out in Japan.

Wiki has a good explanation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akita_(dog)

Thank you!

[Aidan3]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

[Zug Zug]

Then he shouldn't have been in the ring in the first place. What were they thinking?

I think this is a good move by the KC.

Exhibitors will think hard about health issues in future years - and check their dogs before entry to avoid embarassment.

Judges will also be looking hard before awarding BOB.

Two things - I would have thought the RUBOB could have been put up for a vet exam if the BOB failed. That seems a shame, and perhaps something that can be fixed. The whole breed should not suffer because of one dog.

But in terms of the accusations that the vet made a political decision - come on be serious. Of course he/she has been accused of that! Anyone disqualified is likely to start throwing stones. That does not mean there is any legitimacy to it, it just means some people are upset and trying to blame others.

I also don't think there would be any legitimate grounds to sue so long as the vet examined for the issues consistent with what was flagged with the exhibitors prior to showing. They knew the rules, they chose to enter, the rules were followed. They would be happy to take the big boost to reputation if their dog won. They need to also be willing to accept any reputation issues if the vet check identifies a problem. They have given their permission for this to be done, when they entered their dogs.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Zug Zug

[dog_fan]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well.

No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in.

[Sheridan]

I haven't heard anything as yet about the peke and clumber owners' reactions but an Internet campaign and showies across the globe getting all het up ultimately doesn't make The Kennel Club look bad in the eyes of the public. On the contrary.

[Aidan3]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well.

No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in.

I have to wonder about the judges along the way also...

[dog_fan]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well.

No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in.

I have to wonder about the judges along the way also...

Yes but aren't judges usually also breeders..maybe they are cut from the same cloth.

[LizT]

Haven't trawelled through all the posts so if this information is repeated my apologies.

.... wrote...A KC steward was telling me that the Bulldog was dismissed as

the vet considered that it had a breathing difficulty to severe to go into

the Group. The vet is instructed to look specifically for this in the breed

as well as in Pekingese. However the Peke was disqualified as when examining

for over protruding eye balls the vet noticed a scratch on the eyeball. I

imagine there will be a protest from the Peke club as this was not in the

vet's remit and if he was going to fail a dog on that he should have checked

every dog. The reason for the Chinese Crested being on the list is because,

as I am to understand, most are not truly hairless and exhibitors use razors

to remove unwanted hairs and this can cause "razor burn". Other exhibitors

have resorted to using the hair removing cream products on the market for

ladies to use. This on occasions has caused chemical burns to the skin, so

the vet is checking for signs of this.

[Kirty]

I think it is a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but at least it is getting breeders to sit up and pay attention! At work, we see so many purebred dogs with features that cause them discomfort - yet they are seen as shining examples of the breed?? Breeding a dog who cannot walk properly, breathe properly or breed normally is just wrong.

[Rebanne]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well.

No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in.

I have to wonder about the judges along the way also...

you are assuming the dog in question did actually suffer from said condition

eta fix spelling.

Edited March 9, 2012 by Rebanne

[BJean]

I think it is a step in the right direction. Not perfect, but at least it is getting breeders to sit up and pay attention! At work, we see so many purebred dogs with features that cause them discomfort - yet they are seen as shining examples of the breed?? Breeding a dog who cannot walk properly, breathe properly or breed normally is just wrong.

All very well ... but what has it got to do with the three individual dogs DQ'd at Crufts?

The owners' report that the Bulldog was not DQ for movement or breathing,

neither the Peke or the Clumber.

Edited March 9, 2012 by lilli

[BJean]

Haven't trawelled through all the posts so if this information is repeated my apologies.

.... wrote...A KC steward was telling me that the Bulldog was dismissed as

the vet considered that it had a breathing difficulty to severe to go into

the Group. The vet is instructed to look specifically for this in the breed

as well as in Pekingese. However the Peke was disqualified as when examining

for over protruding eye balls the vet noticed a scratch on the eyeball. I

imagine there will be a protest from the Peke club as this was not in the

vet's remit and if he was going to fail a dog on that he should have checked

every dog. The reason for the Chinese Crested being on the list is because,

as I am to understand, most are not truly hairless and exhibitors use razors

to remove unwanted hairs and this can cause "razor burn". Other exhibitors

have resorted to using the hair removing cream products on the market for

ladies to use. This on occasions has caused chemical burns to the skin, so

the vet is checking for signs of this.

Lots of stories are going to go around I think. Inevitably story lines will be mixed and exchanged also.

[BJean]

Clumber Spaniel also failed vet check due to bilateral ectropian and secondary conjunctivitis.

What were these people thinking, putting a dog up with these problems. I am sure they would be breeding from it as well.

No wonder people see registered breeders as unethical. Imagine the pain this dog was in.

I have to wonder about the judges along the way also...

In the first instance you should probably wonder what is fact and what is fiction ?

It is interesting that confidential vet reports are finding their way to, well everywhere ...

This is the Clumber, I do not know why it was DQ'd:

AM/DK/H/BIH/SCG/A/LUX CH Chervood Snowsun. The five-year-old bitch took the Challenge Certificate at the 2010 Crufts and was Best of Opposite Sex at the 2011 AKC/Eukanuba National Championship. Not only does she have an impressive show resume, she has also proved herself in field trials and came to play with documented health test results–A/A hips, 0/0 elbows, healthy patellas, a clear eye certificate & DNA tested clear of PDP1.

Edited March 9, 2012 by lilli

[Rebanne]

video of the bulldog gaiting around the ring

The dog also has a Clear eye certificate issued in Dec 2011.

[Steve]

What a sucky system. they let them win then check them and

One vet can wipe it out without any recourse and without a second opinion

That eye issue the clumber had isnt even noted in the breed!

If it has such serious consequences not just for the exhibitor but also the entire dog show world they should have had an appeals process.

Makes one ask if the UKKC has been infiltrated by animal rights loonies - surely they had to know this might happen

If those exhibitors didn't sign and agree to this they should sue them - if they did sign and agree they are idiots.

[BJean]

Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists?

What is the CV of the Crufts vet?

Edited March 9, 2012 by lilli