BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) What a sucky system. they let them win then check them and One vet can wipe it out without any recourse and without a second opinion That eye issue the clumber had isnt even noted in the breed! If it has such serious consequences not just for the exhibitor but also the entire dog show world they should have had an appeals process. Makes one ask if the UKKC has been infiltrated by animal rights loonies - surely they had to know this might happen If those exhibitors didn't sign and agree to this they should sue them - if they did sign and agree they are idiots. Either the KC are challenging the Veterinary system - and ruling eye health certificates are wrong or inadequate and meaningless - or the Crufts vet is wrong. I guess that is why there is no appeals process :laugh: What a cockup the KC have made of this. It could have been done so well, all KC have done is made themselves look unprofessional and ad hoc. well done! Edited March 9, 2012 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? As far as I know - yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? As far as I know - yes. Oh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? As far as I know - yes. What does the eye certificate cover, would it pick up ectropian or is it only a check for degenerative eye diseases? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) If you look at it differently... Governments have been using "shock tactics" for several years now to combat issues such as smoking, drink driving, speeding, drugs, etc. One would assume they have found them to be a successful means of driving a point home and hence why they continue to be used. So in essence while you may or may not agree, surely the choice of the KC to use a 'shock tactic' of eliminating the BOB winner of a breed is one that has been thought through and based on results shown in other areas of the community. Perhaps they have chosen to start with the 15 most obvious breeds to 'test the water' before expanding the method to a full BOB examination? Is there any documentation in regards to this so far? IMHO I don't see why breeders should rely on a Prior Vet check, when they should jolly well spend their own money and use their own brains as to what is and isn't healthy. Second to that maybe the threat of being 'named and shamed' by having your BOB winning dog outed for health may be enough to drive those without prior inclination to the Vet? Surely making for a better dog world in the long term? Hello, do you understand that the three dogs DQ'd have had health checks and specialist testing? Maybe we should have a name and shame for stupid ideas ... I don't know, how productive do you think that will be? And woops I forgot we are all people ... dont we all generally learn and want to better ourselves and our endeavours, if criticism, when delivered, is also delivered with a helping hand not a slap in the face? Edited March 9, 2012 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? As far as I know - yes. What does the eye certificate cover, would it pick up ectropian or is it only a check for degenerative eye diseases? it picks up everything possible and would most certainly cover ectropion and entropion. http://www.petwave.com/Dogs/Dog-Health-Center/Ear-and-Eye-Disorders/Ectropion.aspx http://www.petwave.com/dogs/dog-health-center/ear-and-eye-disorders/entropion.aspx Edited March 9, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Not sure about the system overseas, but in Australia they eye screening tests MUST be done by accredited eye specialists. The examination covers all parts of the eye including the eyelids. The specialist can select affected/not affected for certain conditions and can note any abnormalities. Ectropion would certainly be mentioned if it was present. ETA: a scar on the cornea would also be noted however the specialist wouldn't know if it was due to random injury or injury caused by previously-fixed entropion, etc. Edited March 9, 2012 by Kirty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dog_fan Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Are eye certificates issued by eye specialists? As far as I know - yes. What does the eye certificate cover, would it pick up ectropian or is it only a check for degenerative eye diseases? it picks up everything possible and would most certainly cover ectropian and entropian. Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Also, we only know what the owner of the Bulldog is telling us. The dog might have been DQ'd for breathing problems or for being obese or for any other reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Also, we only know what the owner of the Bulldog is telling us. The dog might have been DQ'd for breathing problems or for being obese or for any other reason. watch the video, the dog is not obese and gaits fine around the ring, there are no signs of distress. If that's not a happy dog then I don't know what is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Not sure about the system overseas, but in Australia they eye screening tests MUST be done by accredited eye specialists. The examination covers all parts of the eye including the eyelids. The specialist can select affected/not affected for certain conditions and can note any abnormalities. Ectropion would certainly be mentioned if it was present. ETA: a scar on the cornea would also be noted however the specialist wouldn't know if it was due to random injury or injury caused by previously-fixed entropion, etc. So how does a Crufts vet aided with a torch, and not any specialised equipment or specialist training and experience (I assume the latter as I do not know the Cruft vet's CV) make a judgement call on the cause and effect of such a scar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 Is that the video from this actual show? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) Is that the video from this actual show? apologies Kirty no it appears not. But the dog is still happy. Edited March 9, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I don't know lilli. And as I said earlier, I don't think this system is great. However, at least it is making breeders think and talk about the possible problems in their breeds. I just don't understand how the pedigree dog world evolved to a point where dogs that are born to need surgery are considered normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 I watched some of it but I can't get sound. I'm not defending the vet or the new rules, I'm just saying that we don't know the full story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 video of the bulldog gaiting around the ring The dog also has a Clear eye certificate issued in Dec 2011. Haaaaaaaa she is really cute! :D looks happy to meeeeeeeeee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) yes the bulldog is happy but after watching it again it is not perfectly clear if that footage is from Crufts this year, I will need to compare the exhibit numbers to be 100% sure the footage looks like it is from another show so my apologies Kirty, it looks like a group lineup. Edited March 9, 2012 by Rebanne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJean Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 (edited) I don't know lilli. And as I said earlier, I don't think this system is great. However, at least it is making breeders think and talk about the possible problems in their breeds. I just don't understand how the pedigree dog world evolved to a point where dogs that are born to need surgery are considered normal? I do not know the answer to that question Kirty :) However I do not think the question posed, can be used as justification for the current state of affairs at Crufts. There are many breeds that have Caesarians and utilise AI. imo reproduction and fertility is another discussion, and separate to the charade of health tests that the KC have put on display. fwiw I think health tests before significant awards is a good thing. However health tests before significant awards, should also be conducted before the preliminary classes of those significant awards. NO PERSON and their dog deserves the real time DQ that these three dogs (to date) went through. I would not like it, crikey I am bummed enough when one of my little creatures gets non awarded :laugh: And if nothing else it is not just. The level of media exposure given to the DQ, can never be counteracted by any subsequent appeal or Specialist veterinarian dismissal of the DQ. Yes they are show dogs. But they are someone's much loved show dog. Someone's confidant. Someone's pride and Joy. Someone's happiness. There is no care or better intention in what the KC are doing at Crufts. It does not inspire better breeding practices or foster good will. Only damage and disarray. Edited March 10, 2012 by lilli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crisovar Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 I don't know lilli. And as I said earlier, I don't think this system is great. However, at least it is making breeders think and talk about the possible problems in their breeds. I just don't understand how the pedigree dog world evolved to a point where dogs that are born to need surgery are considered normal? I do not know the answer to that question Kirty :) However I do not think the question posed, can be used as justification for the current state of affairs at Crufts. There are many breeds that have Caesarians and utilise AI. imo reproduction and fertility is another discussion, and separate to the charade of health tests that the KC have put on display. fwiw I think health tests before significant awards is a good thing. However health tests before significant awards, should also be conducted before the preliminary classes of those significant awards. NO PERSON and their dog deserves the real time DQ that these three dogs (to date) went through. I would not like it, crikey I am bummed enough when one of my little creatures gets non awarded :laugh: And if nothing else it is not just. The level of media exposure given to the DQ, can never be counteracted by any subsequent appeal or Specialist veterinarian dismissal of the DQ. Yes they are show dogs. But they are someone's much loved show dog. Someone's confidant. Someone's pride and Joy. Someone's happiness. There is no care or better intention in what the KC are doing at Crufts. It does not inspire better breeding practices or foster good will. Only damage and disarray. Very well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LouiseBrooks Posted March 10, 2012 Share Posted March 10, 2012 Ah Ex-Poodlefan you still have "it". The ability to start a thread that creates passion and get members thinking. I have to say about time. One of my "hobbies" is to pick a breed and compare it to how it looked much earlier. It is amazing how different they can look, facial have become exaggerated, eyes change and the body build can change. I will not mention which breed I really notice from a straight carriage to a sloped carriage, how can that be better? Too much human interference can be a problem I was surprised to see one of my favourite breeds the Pom was originally the same size as a Husky and it was Queen Victoria who breed them down to the toy size. I just hope these new rules make the breed think about the health of the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now