Male Labrador Desexing

[ArtMaster]

Hello,

Forgive me for posting with regards to an all too common topic. In some ways that is the problem, that there is so much information out there that I am very confused with regards to desexing. I have read pretty as much information as I can source on the internet, but as with so many things, it contradicts itself the more you read.

I have a chocolate male Labrador, Rooke. He is currently 5 months old. From the moment I got him - at puppy/obedience school, the vets, brochures etc everything was stating to desex him at 5-6 months. In a way i didn't really delve too much further into it until now since he is at that point. Through reading up recently it seems there is so much information and misinformation that I don't really know what is best for the dog, and that is all I really care about. I have no problem with him being desexed now or at 12-18 months but I want him to have the best life possible.

Some sources say that the illnesses that desexing promotes itself on preventing, are minimal in many instances to begin with. And in fact that it can raise the chances of others such as bone cancer? The biggest issue I have though is regarding the growth plates. Rooke, is a pretty big dog at about 20kgs already, not fat just pretty chunky and obviously growing fairly quickly. We got him from a breeder and the dam/sire had great hip/elbow scores but does that have a big effect? If we were to desex him now I have read stories that his joints can suffer and so forth. The breeder did not make as sign a contract to say we would desex him so it is in our hands entirely.

What I was really hoping for was some advice from people who have been in similar situations, preferably with Labradors, but any advice appreciated. Did you have them desexed younger/older and do you believe things could have been done better.

Is it as simple as giving him as long as possible with desexing and then going for it when he begins to mark territory and such things, or by that point are a lot of the behaviors permanently in place with or without desexing?

I hope all of this makes sense - like I said, I do not personally have a massive preference wither way. I just want the dog to be healthy and happy but I think I am suffering information overload and am more confused than at the start. I spoke to the vet but he was somewhat ambiguous in saying that we could leave it but he has never seen issues in his time with early desexing. That didn't really answer the questions all that well.

Cheers,

Dean

[Nekhbet]

Yup information overload lol

Just personally, I'm no longer desexing any dog I get especially males. The two male dogs I did desex in recent years; I regretted it in both instances. But that is me. Saying that I would not desex a dog as chunky as yours, if he were mine I would wait until he's over 12 months and then decide when from there. There is no law that says you have to either frankly.

As for cancer, the hormones you are removing are not unnatural - they are an inherent part of growth and development. Yes some hormones can promote cancers but the dogs need to be predisposed to those cancers in the first place. Even then the body still produces hormones like Testosterone in other glands apart from the testes. All dogs need training and its become all too common for people to blame hormones on bad behaviours, and in turn be lulled into that false sense of 'oh he's desexed we won't have any problems' idea.

I would let him mature, then decide if and when you want him done. I personally turn my back on any vet that pressures me to surgically alter my dog IF they cannot give me a good reason it is in their best interest. I had one tell me my DOgues balls were ugly to look at and we should remove them ... well don't stare at his arse then :rolleyes:

[Salukifan]

I would wait until he is fully physically mature and then reassess.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

Yup information overload lol

Just personally, I'm no longer desexing any dog I get especially males. The two male dogs I did desex in recent years; I regretted it in both instances. But that is me. Saying that I would not desex a dog as chunky as yours, if he were mine I would wait until he's over 12 months and then decide when from there. There is no law that says you have to either frankly.

As for cancer, the hormones you are removing are not unnatural - they are an inherent part of growth and development. Yes some hormones can promote cancers but the dogs need to be predisposed to those cancers in the first place. Even then the body still produces hormones like Testosterone in other glands apart from the testes. All dogs need training and its become all too common for people to blame hormones on bad behaviours, and in turn be lulled into that false sense of 'oh he's desexed we won't have any problems' idea.

I would let him mature, then decide if and when you want him done. I personally turn my back on any vet that pressures me to surgically alter my dog IF they cannot give me a good reason it is in their best interest. I had one tell me my DOgues balls were ugly to look at and we should remove them ... well don't stare at his arse then :rolleyes:

Do you leave your bitches entire and not breed with them? Just interested because my sister's bitch is at the so called 'desexing age'.

[Nekhbet]

first bitch was going to be bred with, didn't get to do it and now I put her on Covinan shots to prevent seasons. She's 8 now but I"m still debating whether to do it or not now she's older or just leave her be. The seasons did her some good temperament wise. Second bitch will be bred with when she has all her health tests done.

[OSoSwift]

I will not be desexing my male Whippet. He fairly recently had to have the Suprelorin implant for medical reasons and I have to say he is much easier to train and live with, WITH his testosterone!!

He was far too soft and flaky, not at all resilient in his training and would not push at all.

Now he has testosterone back he is confident, works till he drops and never stops trying.

With my bitches I do not desex them young but will desex once they are past breeding age. If I didn't want to leave them until 6yrs or so they would be at least 18 months prior to desexing.

Edited March 8, 2012 by OSoSwift

[Tapua]

Ok as a Lab breeder I leave when to neuter their male of female up to ther owner. I do however suggest that there are inherent issues neutering under 12 months or prior to a bitches cycle.

IMO given the Lab is a large boned breed I feel a male dog would benefit more being left entire untill 12 months atleast to allow the sealing of the epiphases (growth plates) on the ends of the bone. In a bitches case the first season tends to seal the growth plates soon after and she is safer to neuter after the first season. Some cycle around 7-10 months - my 12 month old hasnt come in season yet.

I think the arguement regarding cancers are moot - unfortunately canines are prone to cancers of various types - my friend who works in Vet research claims dogs are far more susseptable to Ca than many species but no-one knows why. Their hormonal status may be relevant - my friend suggest its a canine issue. She says like humans, dogs arent really meant to live as long as they do now - 40 years ago 10yrs was an old dog - now 15+ is not uncommon. In the 1930's 70 was very old for humans - now 90+ is very achievable.

Now it is ok for me to say as a breeder/trainer who has pens and yards and really good training facilities not to desex but I dont obligate my buyers to do what I would do and leave the dogs & bithces entire - I let them take into consideration not only the dog but what suits their family situation.

Seriously unless you are breeding or are particulary well set up - I wouldnt have an entire dog around the everyday family situation. Again this is only my opinion.

[Dame Aussie]

Yup information overload lol

Just personally, I'm no longer desexing any dog I get especially males. The two male dogs I did desex in recent years; I regretted it in both instances. But that is me. Saying that I would not desex a dog as chunky as yours, if he were mine I would wait until he's over 12 months and then decide when from there. There is no law that says you have to either frankly.

As for cancer, the hormones you are removing are not unnatural - they are an inherent part of growth and development. Yes some hormones can promote cancers but the dogs need to be predisposed to those cancers in the first place. Even then the body still produces hormones like Testosterone in other glands apart from the testes. All dogs need training and its become all too common for people to blame hormones on bad behaviours, and in turn be lulled into that false sense of 'oh he's desexed we won't have any problems' idea.

I would let him mature, then decide if and when you want him done. I personally turn my back on any vet that pressures me to surgically alter my dog IF they cannot give me a good reason it is in their best interest. I had one tell me my DOgues balls were ugly to look at and we should remove them ... well don't stare at his arse then :rolleyes:

:laugh:

I pretty much agree with Nekhbet

[Mason_Gibbs]

I have an 8 month old Labrador with joint issues, was told by the specialist to not desexing him to around 18 months or else lack of hormones could make his joints even worse. Don't know if this helps you.

[Nekhbet]

I think the arguement regarding cancers are moot - unfortunately canines are prone to cancers of various types - my friend who works in Vet research claims dogs are far more susseptable to Ca than many species but no-one knows why. Their hormonal status may be relevant - my friend suggest its a canine issue. She says like humans, dogs arent really meant to live as long as they do now - 40 years ago 10yrs was an old dog - now 15+ is not uncommon. In the 1930's 70 was very old for humans - now 90+ is very achievable.

Yes and no ... I do think diet and environment do play a huge part in it, especially now with the massive range of man made chemicals to inject, pour on or feed to your animals on a regular basis. We as humans are going the same way.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

Thanks for your reply Nekhbet! :D

Sorry for hijacking your thread ArtMaster :)

[luvsdogs]

Years ago 6 mths was the time to desex animals & at that time they used to say that they couldn't be done before that time because their insides were just too small. Then came irresponsible people who bought their dogs from pounds as puppies & didn't take them back at 6 mths to be done. Then they started desexing at approx 7 weeks which to me is way too young especially reading the information overload that you mention. I left my border collie until 14 mths to be spayed after she had her season at 10 mths. I've just had my 8 mth old Japanese Spitz male spayed only because he had retained testicles, otherwise I would have waited until he was a year old.

With a large breed dog I would wait until maturity.

[Leema]

I don't think the benefits are substantial to justify neutering a male dog. With bitches there are more healthy benefits associated, but for a boy, I'd just leave them entire.

If I did really want to desex them for some reason, I would wait until 14 months or later.

[sheree_e4]

I would say desex him ... I desex all my pet pups before they leave here at 8 weeks of age both male and female. I do not believe the general public should have entire animals, JMO. Are you prepared to re-enforce rules with him ? You can curb bad behaviours like cocking legs on everything but you MUST be very consistant,Also fence jumping could become an issue, It is not uncommon for an entire dog to seek out a mate (regardless of sex).

Unless you own a show/breeding dog there is no reason to keep an entire dog.

I think alot of people on the forum forget that not every one is as dog savvy as them, This entire male Lab will be a lot of work for you avaerage person.

[Nekhbet]

I do not believe the general public should have entire animals, JMO. Are you prepared to re-enforce rules with him ? You can curb bad behaviours like cocking legs on everything but you MUST be very consistant,Also fence jumping could become an issue, It is not uncommon for an entire dog to seek out a mate (regardless of sex).

THere's faith in humanity for you - entire dogs are not always that big an issue. The reasons you give really sound like the same things belted out by many vets over the years to me ... and we've never had an accident or problem. Lack of training and responsibility causes issues, not testicles.

[OSoSwift]

I have to agree. I have had many entire animals even when I was only starting out and never had an issue. Even the average owner can be very responsible, contrary to what many believe.

[Mason_Gibbs]

I would say desex him ... I desex all my pet pups before they leave here at 8 weeks of age both male and female. I do not believe the general public should have entire animals, JMO. Are you prepared to re-enforce rules with him ? You can curb bad behaviours like cocking legs on everything but you MUST be very consistant,Also fence jumping could become an issue, It is not uncommon for an entire dog to seek out a mate (regardless of sex).

Unless you own a show/breeding dog there is no reason to keep an entire dog.

I think alot of people on the forum forget that not every one is as dog savvy as them, This entire male Lab will be a lot of work for you avaerage person.

I disagree my entire male is less work than my desexed one, i have no issues with him at all

[pebbles]

I've had dogs and bitches all my life (and it's a long one lol) never desexed a male and haven't had any health or behaviour problems. I've got an entire dog and bitch here with me now, one's on the couch, the other asleep on my foot, both well toilet trained and know who's the boss lol. Only ever desexed one bitch, years ago, for a health problem she had. When all the right things are done, obedience, fencing, etc. IMO there's no need to desex.

[Crisovar]

I would say desex him ... I desex all my pet pups before they leave here at 8 weeks of age both male and female. I do not believe the general public should have entire animals, JMO. Are you prepared to re-enforce rules with him ? You can curb bad behaviours like cocking legs on everything but you MUST be very consistant,Also fence jumping could become an issue, It is not uncommon for an entire dog to seek out a mate (regardless of sex).

Unless you own a show/breeding dog there is no reason to keep an entire dog.

I think alot of people on the forum forget that not every one is as dog savvy as them, This entire male Lab will be a lot of work for you avaerage person.

Good grief you make entire animals sound like wild beasts.

[Florise]

I would say desex him ... I desex all my pet pups before they leave here at 8 weeks of age both male and female. I do not believe the general public should have entire animals, JMO. Are you prepared to re-enforce rules with him ? You can curb bad behaviours like cocking legs on everything but you MUST be very consistant,Also fence jumping could become an issue, It is not uncommon for an entire dog to seek out a mate (regardless of sex).

Unless you own a show/breeding dog there is no reason to keep an entire dog.

what a very backward and ignorant attitude!