Desexing?

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

So my sister's bitch is in season for the first time. The vet told us to leave her for a season or two before desexing, as it is better for her.

My sister doesn't want her to have surgery, so isn't sure whether she'll actually get her desexed.

If she does decide to do so, what age would be best to do so? I've heard that letting them completely mature is best, but wasn't sure?

Thanks,

S. :)

[Leema]

Most vets actually recommend desexing before their first season, as it reduces the incidence of some cancers. Now that she has had a season, there are limited benefits to desexing.

However, one significant benefit of desexing in bitches is the removal of the risk of pyometra. It is a serious and life threatening condition, and common.

If your friend can ensure that she won't get pregnant (e.g. secure fencing etc) then it's up to her to decide if pyometra is a great enough risk to get the bitch desexed.

If your friend can't ensure the bitch won't get pregnant, I would get the bitch desexed ASAP.

[Mystiqview]

I would recommend getting her desexed about a month after her season. This will give things time to shrink back to a normalish state. She can be desexed while in season. It is a bigger operation, costs more and carries more risk, some vets will not elect to do it during this time, but it can be done. If you live in Brisbane/Ipswich area, I can recommend the AWL vet clinic at West Ipswich. They are a bit cheaper than many vets and do a good job. I had one of my ex show dogs/breeders done there and they did a nice clean operation with a small scar. If she is worried about surgery, some vets do offer pain meds before, during and after the surgery.

Some people say with a coated breed, it is better to let them to have a season first so they keep the "lush" coat. Once a dog has a season, really they are now at least sexually mature. Mentally mature, well that depends on the individual and breed. Second season or third season will not really make a difference.

It is a wives tale that letting them have a litter first will settle them down. Some bitches never settle down even after 4 litters (am thinking of an agility bitch who is still just as full on as she was at 7 months).

Seasons can bring on hormone changes. Depending on your bitch, they can range from aggressiveness to sookiness (PMT like humans suffer). Yes there is an increased risk of Pyrometra. Sometimes the bitch can have "phantom" pregnancies and go right though up to producing milk and labour, even though there is no puppies in there and not even had sex.

Of course there is the risk of the bitch getting pregnant. Dogs and bitches will do almost anything to get out during that time. It is natural.

If she gets her desexed as well, it will be cheaper dog registration with the local council.

She can take the dog anywhere at anytime without having to lock her up and worry about her getting pregnant.

Many boarding kennels now will not take a bitch in season (or even an entire dog over 6 months of age) if your sister needs to go away for a holiday.

Desexing is really the responsible thing to do.

[Jumabaar]

I would recommend getting her desexed about a month after her season. This will give things time to shrink back to a normalish state. She can be desexed while in season. It is a bigger operation, costs more and carries more risk, some vets will not elect to do it during this time, but it can be done. If you live in Brisbane/Ipswich area, I can recommend the AWL vet clinic at West Ipswich. They are a bit cheaper than many vets and do a good job. I had one of my ex show dogs/breeders done there and they did a nice clean operation with a small scar. If she is worried about surgery, some vets do offer pain meds before, during and after the surgery.

Some people say with a coated breed, it is better to let them to have a season first so they keep the "lush" coat. Once a dog has a season, really they are now at least sexually mature. Mentally mature, well that depends on the individual and breed. Second season or third season will not really make a difference.

It is a wives tale that letting them have a litter first will settle them down. Some bitches never settle down even after 4 litters (am thinking of an agility bitch who is still just as full on as she was at 7 months).

Seasons can bring on hormone changes. Depending on your bitch, they can range from aggressiveness to sookiness (PMT like humans suffer). Yes there is an increased risk of Pyrometra. Sometimes the bitch can have "phantom" pregnancies and go right though up to producing milk and labour, even though there is no puppies in there and not even had sex.

Of course there is the risk of the bitch getting pregnant. Dogs and bitches will do almost anything to get out during that time. It is natural.

If she gets her desexed as well, it will be cheaper dog registration with the local council.

She can take the dog anywhere at anytime without having to lock her up and worry about her getting pregnant.

Many boarding kennels now will not take a bitch in season (or even an entire dog over 6 months of age) if your sister needs to go away for a holiday.

Desexing is really the responsible thing to do.

I agree with this!!

There are plenty of health benefits for desexing after her first season which is what I will be doing. With each season (up to the 6th season where the risk plateaus) the risk of mammary, ovary and uterine cancers increase. I will wait 12 weeks after her heat to make sure she is clear of all hormones (in case she phantoms) and then get her desexed.

[sandgrubber]

I think the jury is still out on speying and health . . .

Diva posted an interesting article in the 'studies about dogs' part of General Discussion (its in the 5th page of the topic).

It was published in Aging Cell, a peer reviewed journal. The authors studied a large number of life histories for female Rottis . . . separating out the girls who were speyed young and those who were not speyed or speyed late in life. The results associate early speying with a 30% reduction in life expectancy!

for the article see

http://onlinelibrary...009.00513.x/pdf

p.s., please don't take this as an endorsement for back yard breeding of unspeyed bitches. There are good reasons to spey.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

Thanks for the replies everyone! :)

p.s., please don't take this as an endorsement for back yard breeding of unspeyed bitches. There are good reasons to spey.

Don't worry, Holly is too little to have puppies anyway, and there are enough byb crossbred pups around without us contributing to the over population! :)

In regards to pyo, I'd never heard of it before. Do you know how common it is, or if it is more common in certain breeds than others?

S. :)

[Mystiqview]

With regards to Pyo.

How long is a piece of string?

Some lines within dogs seem more susceptible than others. I don't think it is necessarily specific breed related and more breeds get it more than others. It is a risk and it is something that should be considered.

[becks]

I've had a couple of family dogs have pyo and luckily caught in time to save them. I think a fair proportion of people with entire bitches have had at least one or 2 with pyo.

Why do you say the bitch is to small to breed? She won't be to small to get pregnant.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

She probably isn't too small to breed - I just mean that she is so tiny that her babies would be really, really little.

Did a search - somewhere said that 25% of entire bitches get pyo ???

[Alyosha]

One of my bitches got an open pyo after her second season. It has never been seen in her family lines before. She also had a heavy phantom with her first season, big saggy boobs, milk, the lot. It too has never been known in her lines.

Before her third season she became a hormonal nightmare which culminated in her tearing off part of a fence and escaping. Which was one of the scariest times we've had with dogs. She wasn't being caught for anything - she was little different to a wild dog roaming the vast countryside and had to be cornered in a gully and crash tackled.

She is normally the sweetest, sookiest, easiet to live with, cuddly lap dog about.

Just relaying a story so some folks can get a grasp on just how difficult seasons can be to manage, even in easy going dogs.

If I wasn't keeping a bitch for showing or breeding I would spey her. Not just for health reasons, but for the huge amount of peace of mind that it brings with regard to management.

[Guest Clover]

I am just at this stage at the moment with my youngster. She has just come on season so i will be waiting atleast 8 weeks before desexing her. That will give her a little more time to grow as well as any hormones to settle down.

[luvsdogs]

I had my border collie spayed 4 mths after her season. When I 1st got her I told my vet that I wanted to wait until she had had a season before desexing & she agreed with me saying that to have one season was a good idea to help prevent vaginitis. On another forum it was recommended to wait a couple of months after for things to go back to normal & prevent haemorage.sp.

[Rilla-My-Rilla]

Thanks for your replies everyone. There seems to be quite an information overload with regards to health and speying/not speying....

[k9angel]

I had my sibe girl Takoda done at 5 and a half mths, before her first season. After what we have been through this past 10mths with pyometra and mammary tumours, I wasn't taking any risks.

Pyo is quiet common or so I am learning the inlaws lost their shep girl to it, I have lost one to it and Mums girl Tess had it a couple of mths ago. She got through the emergency surgery for the pyo but sadly had mammary tumours that had spread to her lungs and so I had to take her to be put to sleep last Tuesday. She was deteriorating fast. If she had of been desexed earlier on, she may still be here today.

[OSoSwift]

I have had one with Pyo and one I got as a desexed 6yo that was desexed due to getting a uterine infection after a caesar - not sure if that would be classed as pyo or not?

[Diva]

One of my bitches got an open pyo after her second season. It has never been seen in her family lines before. She also had a heavy phantom with her first season, big saggy boobs, milk, the lot. It too has never been known in her lines.

Before her third season she became a hormonal nightmare which culminated in her tearing off part of a fence and escaping. Which was one of the scariest times we've had with dogs. She wasn't being caught for anything - she was little different to a wild dog roaming the vast countryside and had to be cornered in a gully and crash tackled.

She is normally the sweetest, sookiest, easiet to live with, cuddly lap dog about.

Just relaying a story so some folks can get a grasp on just how difficult seasons can be to manage, even in easy going dogs.

Good grief Alyosha, how terrifying for you.

Worst I have ever had to put up with is a bit (well a lot really) of girl on girl action. Much to my mother's amusement when she was staying here, LOL.