Ok To Advertise Puppies In The Classifieds?

[megan_]

Methinks a fair few of the "want entire, have 7 acres etc" would be puppy farmers in disguise anyway. Great profit margins to be had from breeding free dogs

[LizT]

I was actually one of the 4 people who voted 'No'.

Just spend a few minutes browsing Gumtree and you will see dozens of puppy mill dogs. There is no way to weed out the ANKC dogs vs the puppy mill ones. People are already giving fake microchip numbers now that the rule has come in so what's to stop them giving fake ANKC membership numbers as well?

Local newspapers or more legitimate places like DOL or personal websites are fine but I don't think those online classified sites should even be allowed to advertise animals at all.

The argument that bad breeders advertise on these sites so ANKC breeders shouldn't advertise in the same space is a false economy. If all the ANKC breeders advertised in the same spaces then more people will see their ads.

Exactly. You put Registered Breeder, parents and pups health screened etc. next to BYB ad and see how it compares.

[Crisovar]

I have personally seen the results of having advertisements for reg Breeders in amongst the bybs on pet classies on FB, it does get noticed, some people start to ask questions, and that is how change happens slowly slowly. I cannot believe now how many people on the FB pages will ask someone if their pups are Vacc, are they chipped, have the parents been health tested. Yet a while back there was nothing like this being asked. Often you see people asking who has pups for sale, sure they get bombed with bybs flogging their wares but pop a link to the likes of the Breed pages here and it can surely do more good than harm. If people don't see adds for reg Breeders, if they don't know where to look we have to go to them.

Of course the papers and non interactive sites are different but there is still room there for Breeder adds, Breed Club adds to open peoples choices and their minds.

[mita]

Yes to what Crisovar posted.

I also see why it'd be good to get good registered breeders where the pet buyers are.

My 2 dogs are retired showgirls from an excellent breeder. Pretty golden little things that were well socialised when they came to me.

So they're full of confidence when out & about.

People are forever coming up to me & asking can they pat them. Then follows the questions about what are they & where did I get them.

The biggest surprise is when I say they're purebreds, ex-showdogs, from a registered breeder. These are the common comments:

"I didn't know that show people sold puppies/dogs to pet people. I thought they only sold to other show people.'

'I didn't know that dogs from show people are so friendly. I thought they just pranced around a ring.'

'I wouldn't know how to find one of those breeders.'

At that moment, I wish I had the registered breeder on the spot to introduce her....with all she could tell them.

Incidentally, I make a point that the purebreds I've got from registered breeders have not been 'instant'. I tell the people I had to wait patiently , for a few months, for my Annie girl. As lovely Annie is usually reclining in their lap at that point, I can truthfully add, 'Quality is worth waiting for!'

So, anything that links the pet buying public with the purebred breeding world is good with me.

As I said before, I'd even like generic ads, maybe pointing to Breed Club sites or the Dogzonline Community pages.

Edited March 6, 2012 by mita

[~Anne~]

Hi all

Just wondering if given the ANKC code of ethics says this

11. A member shall breed primarily for the purpose of improving the quality and / or working

ability of the breed in accordance with the breed standard, and not specifically for the pet or

commercial market.

Is advertising the puppies in online classifieds - like the trading post or gumtree ok or not?

if not - why not?

if ok - when is it ok?

Personally I'm not big on it. I thought breeders were supposed to meet demand ie have buyers lined up before the puppies arrived - so they'd never need to advertise on classifieds.

But there are huge numbers of people who want an "instant puppy", and classifieds or pet shops is where they go to look. Should we be providing quality dogs for these people or leaving them to the breeders with no code of ethics?

I can't see the correlation between this and advertising in the classifieds? I might have missed the link in the 5 pages of the thread though.

I can't see anything wrong with advertising puppies anywhere in the media, be that social, print or digital. Selling a puppy doesn't make anyone a bad breeder or a good breeder.

Edited to add: In fact, why is it made harder for purebred breeders to sell purebred dogs. The idea that they shouldn't advertise make sit harder. Its a free for all for cross bred dogs but purebreds are increasingly restricted through social surges in what is accpetable and what isn't and by their peers. (*Disclaimer: I am not specifcally saying you personally are making it harder, just in general)

Edited March 6, 2012 by ~Anne~

[sas]

Of course it is ok!!!!

The owner of the dog/s will still screen potential families.

It's simply a way to let people know you have pups and you get a bigger selection of people to choose from.

[Sir Sniffalot]

l'm all for advertising anywhere a BYB does, it gives the buyers another option. It's suprising how many people think they can't afford a pedigree pup, don't know where to get one from or the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, alot of puppy buyers arn't aware of health conditions that affect my breed. l'm dissapointed at the number of breeders on DOL that advertise

********* is a boutique kennel specializing in companion dogs.

To me this is breeding for the pet and commercial market.

[helen]

I voted yes, I only found out about properly registered purebreds and how to find them after purchasing a purebred dog from the local paper years ago, a different breed, but my first registered dog. The dog was great and so was the breeder, always taking an interest in him. I knew I wanted a Poodle, so my first port of call was the local newspaper (before the internet was more popular).

Edited March 6, 2012 by helen

[redangel]

Yes they should advertise. Thirty years ago if you wanted a purebred dog you went to the the Trading Post or the Sat Age. My family got poodles back then and I learned much from a local breeder who used to advertise her kennel via a sign on her property.

Forward to today and poodles and the various cross breeders/byb breeders are in vogue. Papers are full of them. If regd breeders didnt advertise what hope has the public got in knowing about how to acquire a well bred poodle? PRA, patellas, myths (aka the 'teacup toy"), knowledge about genetic health testing... yes some people may still go and buy the $600 crossbred (some people will never be educated) but there needs to be an opportunity to stem the flow of people being unknowingly sucked in. Im constantly surprised by people who contemplate buying an overpriced pet shop "purebred" for $900 when if they knew the options they could make a much better choice. I think it is important to promote how to acquire a purebred and what support you should expect from the breeder.

[dog geek]

l'm all for advertising anywhere a BYB does, it gives the buyers another option. It's suprising how many people think they can't afford a pedigree pup, don't know where to get one from or the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, alot of puppy buyers arn't aware of health conditions that affect my breed. l'm dissapointed at the number of breeders on DOL that advertise

********* is a boutique kennel specializing in companion dogs.

To me this is breeding for the pet and commercial market.

.... but maybe they are following socialisation programs that *produce* excellent companion dogs?

I do - and my breed was developed as a companion breed in any case, so it is one of the main criteria I use when selecting breeding animals - ie: does this animal have the innate temperament to produce a stable, confident, affectionate companion?

I get a bit narky when people are disparaging of registered breeders who happily refer to breeding companion dogs - I mean, seriously: what the hell else are most breeds of dogs if not companions and family members???

[Souff]

I think yes, the more the average Joe realises that they have this option (ANKC v BYB) of buying a registered pup over a pup of questionable breeding the better...

But does "average Joe" does not know or care what the ANKC or BYB is?

Methinks not.

If Average Joe has not been exposed to dog breeders in his life he probably will look under "D" for dog

or "P" for pets or puppies.

The attitude of dog breeders that Kirislin referred to in their post was part of the reason that purebred dog breeding in this country took a huge nosedive.

Like everything else, purebred dogs need promotion.

Advertise what you are doing - if you breed the best dogs in the world, then go tell the world!

Until the internet became widely accepted, the canine councils did not do a good job of promoting purebred dogs to the people who buy dogs.

For the general public (and "average Joe")the Royal Shows were the best avenue for the public to see purebred dogs.

And then most of them just came across them, they did not pay all that entry money just to see dogs.

I can find the best or worst boat advertised in a paper or on the internet;

I can find the best or worst restaurant advertised in the paper or on the internet;

why should I not have the opportunity of seeing a good dog advertised in the paper or on the net?

As others have said so beautifully on here, it is not how the dog is advertised - the important things are how well the dog is bred and how suitable the new owner will be.

Please dont listen to the crap spouted by those who would rather see the purebred dog world die out altogether.

Souff

[Dame Aussie]

l'm all for advertising anywhere a BYB does, it gives the buyers another option. It's suprising how many people think they can't afford a pedigree pup, don't know where to get one from or the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, alot of puppy buyers arn't aware of health conditions that affect my breed. l'm dissapointed at the number of breeders on DOL that advertise

********* is a boutique kennel specializing in companion dogs.

To me this is breeding for the pet and commercial market.

.... but maybe they are following socialisation programs that *produce* excellent companion dogs?

I do - and my breed was developed as a companion breed in any case, so it is one of the main criteria I use when selecting breeding animals - ie: does this animal have the innate temperament to produce a stable, confident, affectionate companion?

I get a bit narky when people are disparaging of registered breeders who happily refer to breeding companion dogs - I mean, seriously: what the hell else are most breeds of dogs if not companions and family members???

Have to agree here, of course breeders should be trying to better the breed, but what's wrong with breeding happy, healthy animals for pet homes? It can come across as snobbery (in general, not in reference to anything here)and part of the reason a lot of people don't think they can get a dog from a registered breeder, so go to a byb instead.

[Crisovar]

The majority of dogs bred end up as companion dogs, or beloved household pets, if you are not breeding specifically for sporting dogs or working dogs and you have pups that are not of show quality where do they go?? I would think Pet Homes would be the answer wouldn't it?

[Sir Sniffalot]

l think we all aim to produce pups that will be great companions for their families. l'm talking about the reg breeders that produce constant pups for 5 + different breeds who are only breeing for the pet market but have flashy website and cute pictures. Just because your buying from a registered breeder does not mean all the boxes have been ticked. The general public need to know the questions to ask, what to look for and most have no idea on genetic testing.

[Crisovar]

In all honesty if they are doing the testing and raising healthy sound pups that are typical of their breed,from happy healthy well cared for dogs and screening their homes then I say let them go for it. If they are not doing all the right things by the dogs and by the buyers then that is a different kettle of fish.

Most people are not going to sit around for years waiting for a Breeder to throw them a crumb which is the story if we were to all stick to the breed litter only when we need a new show/work/sporting prospect scenario. As it stands the bybs and those grubs that are churning out oodles and such are filling a need that could be quite possibly be satisfied with healthy well bred pups from Reg Breeders. Unless of course we just want to keep the magic and joy of owning them to ourselves.

[dog geek]

Now, see - that distinction makes all the difference to my attitude ;)

[ellz]

Donning flame suit....

As I stated in a previous post, I breed to KEEP not to sell but the reality is that I cannot keep everything and so occasionally I will have carefully bred, well-reared and socialised puppies available to SUITABLE pet homes. Note that I say SUITABLE....and yes, I'm well aware that my idea of suitable doesn't necessarily correspond with somebody else's idea of suitable. I actually saw that firsthand recently whilst a friend of mine was selling a litter of registered purebred puppies...she dealt with certain issues and enquiries in a far different way to the way that I do and to be honest (and she is aware of this) there were some of her puppy purchasers who wouldn't have been successful at purchasing a puppy from me for various reasons. But, each to their own.

Now that said...I do believe that breeders should be breeding to better the breed. And that is what the ANKC and State controlling bodies Codes of Ethics state.

BUT....isn't breeding good quality, healthy, happy puppies for the companion market just as important? In some high-demand breeds, I personally am coming around to the mindset that if a breeder can safely manage the occasional litter of companion only puppies, then why should it be wrong to ensure that there is a healthy supply of correctly bred and reared puppies for the companion market? Why should the BYB and shonky millers be the only ones who can supply the market and potentially cause even more damage to breeds that are already in danger from overbreeding?

Now I am not for one minute endorsing that every breeder should churn out puppies specifically for the pet market, but in some breeds (Staffords for instance), even my much-loved, healthy, happy companion puppies are a better proposition than the hundreds that are churned out by people who have no idea how to rear them, let alone health test which can potentially create untold problems in pet homes and in society, let alone the damage to the breed itself.

At the very least, registered and reputable breeders will screen the homes more carefully, HOPEFULLY match puppies to purchasers and not just hand over a puppy to anybody who turns up with the money and then provide lifetime backup and support as well as (in an ideal world) being able to take back, or help to arrange alternatives for the dog down the track if circumstances change.

We are never going to completely stop backyard breeding or farming, but I do think that certain trains of thought need to get on track for the present and think a little more about the future whilst they are at it.

[Dame Aussie]

In all honesty if they are doing the testing and raising healthy sound pups that are typical of their breed,from happy healthy well cared for dogs and screening their homes then I say let them go for it. If they are not doing all the right things by the dogs and by the buyers then that is a different kettle of fish.

Most people are not going to sit around for years waiting for a Breeder to throw them a crumb which is the story if we were to all stick to the breed litter only when we need a new show/work/sporting prospect scenario. As it stands the bybs and those grubs that are churning out oodles and such are filling a need that could be quite possibly be satisfied with healthy well bred pups from Reg Breeders. Unless of course we just want to keep the magic and joy of owning them to ourselves.

Great post, totally agree.

[alpha bet]

this thread has probably moved on to breeders rather than just advertising - my view - Lets aim to get pure bred dogs out in the public eye again. That means as breeders we should aim to breed for the following

1. Use good DNA - temperament is set at birth, the environment will develop the behaviour but wont change the temperament so that means knowing that the Dam and Sire are of good character - if you use interstate or overseas sperm you should also do some research to ensure the temperament of the sire is solid. The health checks and DNA testing (even if not perfect) is the best we have available at present to ensure the best chance of good health.

2. Raise the pups to be healthy mentally and physically - ensure that pups have the chance to develop confidence for whatever life they will go to.

3. Find homes where the pups can have the chance to develop and become the dogs you hope for. That means to advertise where the public get to know the options open to them.

4. Breeders should be prepared to talk to potential buyers - use the enquiries as a chance to educate people on the breed traits and perhaps if not suitable for your breed advise the families of other options of pure bred.

Personally have no real interest in showing, therefore many of the showies would call me a pet breeder - but it is such fun to raise pups and see them go to homes. however this doesn't mean my breeding (and many other 'so called pet' breeders) aren't as good as what might be in the ring - besides I use the same bloodlines! Perhaps ocassionally someone might get one of my pups and decide to show or compete.......and thats great......... but my first priority is to produce a dog that someone would be proud to walk down the road and sit in a cafe - a dog they enjoy showing off in public.

A lovely pure bred dog with great manners - that is out in the public does more to promote pure bred dogs than any show.....

[sandgrubber]

Just wondering if given the ANKC code of ethics says this

11. A member shall breed primarily for the purpose of improving the quality and / or working

ability of the breed in accordance with the breed standard, and not specifically for the pet or

commercial market.

Personally, I think this is a snobbish and ambiguous part of the code of ethics. I also think the attitude that often goes along with it is a major reason that pedigree registrations are falling and designer dogs are increasing in popularity. People want a good healthy dog, with predictable temperament and look. Not many want a show dog, and a lot of the people who think they want a show dog go to one show and decide it's not for them. You can rationalise most anything under the rubric of 'improving the quality and/or working ability of the breed'. For a lap dog, being a good pet may equate to being a good working dog! Try and breed away from extreme conformation for health reasons and avoid popular sires . . . say so openly, and you'll be in for a lot of criticism.

Edited March 7, 2012 by sandgrubber