Officer Shoots Dog.

[Silvawilow]

If I was the beagle's owner and my dog landed up being attacked while an officer "rang someone else to deal with the dogs" I'd be ropeable.

Police struggle to keep up with crime, now they need to be experts on canine behavior too?

I agree - I to would be livid if that was my dog being attacked by roaming dogs and I had to wait around for "the right people" to arrived.

I think it's unfair to expect police to be experts in canine behavior - they are overstretched already as it is.

I would have preferred that the dog was dispatched of more quickly but it's not a perfect world.

In the end it comes down to the meancing dogs' owner not being responsible and keeping their dogs contained and if people want to blame someone they should be pointing their fingers at them, not the Police who were just doing their job.

[Salukifan]

If I was the beagle's owner and my dog landed up being attacked while an officer "rang someone else to deal with the dogs" I'd be ropeable.

Police struggle to keep up with crime, now they need to be experts on canine behavior too?

I agree - I to would be livid if that was my dog being attacked by roaming dogs and I had to wait around for "the right people" to arrived.

I think it's unfair to expect police to be experts in canine behavior - they are overstretched already as it is.

I would have preferred that the dog was dispatched of more quickly but it's not a perfect world.

In the end it comes down to the meancing dogs' owner not being responsible and keeping their dogs contained and if people want to blame someone they should be pointing their fingers at them, not the Police who were just doing their job.

I'm a little gobsmaked by the defence of the roaming dogs along the lines of "the Beagle was only mildly terrified". Should the officer have waited for the situation to escalate? Then we'd potentially get "police officers do nothing while dogs maul family pet".

Come on folks... have a listen to yourselves. The police were in a no win situation here. The person ulimately responsible for the dog's deaths is the person who failed to contain them... and time and time again we see this play out with law enforcement told they need to do better. Well guess what, law enforcement are not trained dog behaviorists and many of them have been attacked by dogs during their careers on the beat. If they shoot first rather than risk injury and rabies shots, then why condemn THEM?

How about OWNERS need to do better and if you allow your dog to roam and it aggresses then don't expect it home in one piece.

[Leema]

1) If the beagle wasn't chained outside, then perhaps this would've been prevented.

2) If the pitties weren't roaming at large, then perhaps this would've been prevented.

3) If the beagle had better dog skills, perhaps it would've engaged with the play behaviour of the pitties instead of screaming, and then perhaps this would've been prevented.

4) If the pitties had better dog skills, perhaps they wouldn't of terrorised the beagle with play invitations, and then perhaps this would've been prevented.

5) If the pitties had better people skills, perhaps the situation would've been prevented.

6) If animal control with catch poles had been called, perhaps the situation would've been prevented.

7) If the police had some training with dog behaviour, perhaps the situation would've been prevented.

8) If someone had thrown some food at the pitties, perhaps the situation would've been prevented.

9) If the police had shot the dog once and killed it, then perhaps the whole situation would've been less cruel.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

I'm not going to watch the video. It's a little too disturbing for me. But going off the comments here why did the owners of the beagle not remove it from the situation and contain the two offending dog in the back yard and await animal control to remove them?

Out of fear for their own safety from the look of it.

It is also not clear there was any way to safely contain them in the yard. The Beagle may have been tethered.

I'm sorry, but not even two "apparently vicious Pit Bulls" would not stop me from removing my dogs out of a possibly dangerous situation and I would quite happily put myself between any dog that showed intent to attack mine.

At the end of the day, you can't lay blame directly on anyone really. The owners of the two roaming dogs did not contain their dogs, the beagle owner did not have a secure yard and the cop went straight for the last resort when it probably wasn't needed.

A family lost their pet. You can't change the past, only make sure it doesn't happen in the future. ;)

Edited February 28, 2012 by Jade~Harley~Bella

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

I just watched that video to right up until the cop showed up. Those dogs were in no way acting aggressively to anyone in that yard. My dogs initiate play with each other and other dogs like that all the time.

When old mate came up with the rake and started trying to prod the dog or what ever the fudge he was doing... my dogs react like that with a broom when I try and sweep, it doesn't mean they want to rip my throat out. They think it is a game.

To me it seems like the beagle owner has spend to much time watching the media and their hate filled word vomit against pit bulls and none of them appeared to know anything about dog behaviour.

Still the end result is still the same as I've said in my last post.

[Salukifan]

I'm sorry, but not even two "apparently vicious Pit Bulls" would not stop me from removing my dogs out of a possibly dangerous situation and I would quite happily put myself between any dog that showed intent to attack mine.

All I can say is you'd want to be armed with something better than what the resident of that house had/

Here's what Leerburg has to say about defending your dog. All I can say is you'd be in a world of hurt if the aggressive display of the brindle dog was pushed too hard.

WHAT TO DO IF YOU OR YOUR PET IS ATTACKED BY STRAY DOGS:

I get a lot of emails from pet owners who are out walking their dogs when stray dogs come out of no-where and attack their dog. This is NOT AN UNCOMMON OCCURANCE!

When this happens the pet owner needs to be assertive. Sometimes (not always) if you are lucky simply taking a step foreword and screaming no at the dog in a confident tone of voice ill turn the stray around.

More often than not the strays will come in to either attack or to posture over your dog. If your dog is at all annoyed by this the stray will attack to show his dominance.

This is where the owner needs to be prepared. He or she should have a stout walking stick along with pepper gas or both. If a dog will not back off with verbal threats then its time to get cracked right between the ears. The harder the better.

I continue to hit a dog until it backs off. If that means 3 hits or 10 hits. I will not allow a stray dog to hurt or kill my dog. As a pack animal your dog expects you as the pack leader to to protect him. So hang in their and whack the snot out of the stray. If the owner of the other dog is there - don't allow this to intimidate you. If they don't jump right in to pull their dog off - then whale on their dog.

When the aggressor finally comes off - get your pepper spray out. If the dog does not turn and leave. Spray the dog right in the nose. Empty the can on the dog. Pepper spray will not always have the same effect on dogs that it does on humans, but it does give them all something to think about other than trying to kill your dog.

Two things to note:

* Pepper spray is illegal in this country

* There were TWO dogs here,not one. That's TWO dogs you need to neutralise, noting that at least one of them wasn't going to run.

Interesting to see aggressive behaviour towards a defensive human condoned and lack of playful behaviour by a threatened dog cited as part of the problem. Seriously are some folk for real?

For those who think those dogs were being playful, read what Leerburg says about intention.. and IMO this was what was happening. That Beagle is alive because it offered no resistance to the posturing dogs. I said it before but I'll say it again.. all canine play behaviour is practice for fighting or hunting. The fact that a dog "looks" playful to you does not mean that the behaviour isn't motivated by dominance or predatory instinct. True play is a two dog agreement. An invitation is accepted.

No dog "has" to play with others and to suggest that any fault falls on the smaller dog here for not "playing" with the larger two is utter rubbish.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Telida Whippets

[asal]

Because resources rarely match up to daydreams. Or to television based expectations.

If two large stray dogs were in your backyard, attacking your dog, and keeping you from walking out of your back door to help it, would you be wanting to wait for a catchpole? Seriously?

A dog at large, that attacks - which normally by law includes "rushing" - another animal or person is liable for destruction. So the policeman's actions are upheld by law.

Would you do your utmost to stop that immediate aggressive behaviour and try to help the poor victim dog? Or are you going to allow that behaviour to continue while you play soft and cuddly games, and the offending dogs potenttially escape to attack something or someone else.

Not one of the people here condemming that cop's actions in shooting the attacking dog has voiced concerns over whether or not the victim dog may have been injured, whether mortally or not. That is a very disturbing thing indeed.

These dogs and their behaviour should not be defendable. Yes their owners are to blame, but like already said, they are not there to wear the immediate consequences of being shot.

efs

The dogs were only mildly interested in the Beagle and there was a lot of play behaviour shown. A dog in high prey or aggression drive will normally be more focussed on the 'victim' and more apt to dispatch it. The Beagle was vocalising in fear when the brindle dog apporached for play. This all indicates to me that it's doubtful there was an attack on the Beagle. Sure the Beagle was frightened, and so were the men in the house, but I don't think is reason enough to shoot.

I disagree that the dogs' actions are not defendable. It all seems fairly normal and dog-like to me.

considering all the attacks and kills that have been in the press by loose dogs on the street. That beagle certainly was in terror.

no one should have to be calling for help as strays do as they please in your yard and can kill or maim your dog in its own yard.

in the country they would be shot...

when will people ever get it through their heads...their dog...stays home.

if it is roaming the streets thats how killer packs form.

i dont care how many shots it took at least it wont be running loose to headline another day.

hope the poor beagle is ok.

whats with you lot.

the baddie here is the owner of those dogs not the officer, not the home owner.

if more roaming dogs were dispatched on the spot maybe more people might make the effort to keep their dogs at home..

face facts,, how many thousands of dogs lose their lives under someone car because their owner didnt keep it in.

I had a darling girl who decided it was fun to get out and go for a roam.. she got out one night, no idea how even to this day,(nobody else ever got out) and we found her beside the road dead. heartbreak all round but that is the price you pay when things go wrong even if its not your fault.

there are so many around here that have million dollar homes, every luxury available yet they dont fence their 'guard' dog in.

why should i have to wake up to my dogs screaming in terror and hiding from a huge rottweiler or shepherd thats big and strong enough to scale the fence (one has twice) and decided to dispach my male dog. fortunately he crawled under a cupboard on the verandah and the dammed thing couldnt reach him before i reached it.

no i didnt shoot it althought the temptation was sooo much.

think all up I took it to the pound 3 times before the fines became too annoying and they left him there...but they didnt put up a fence.

we shouldnt have to be worrying about dogs trying to break into your home...they shouldnt be roaming. full stop.

ive seen my neighbours sheep standing all confused with its entire skin removed and half its ruman hanging out of her side, his goats also sides torn and bowel showing though the gaping wounds.

they were stitched up and saved but the poor ewe had not chance.

get some perspective... roaming dogs are potentially dangerous to anything they find a potential game.

ask anyone who has had their pet torn apart before their eyes what they think is reasonable force?

[Alyosha]

No dog "has" to play with others and to suggest that any fault falls on the smaller dog here for not "playing" with the larger two is utter rubbish.

People are still blaming the Beagle? People who think that Pitbulls can do no wrong are the breed's worst enemies. Any dog, of any breed can do wrong. And blatantly denying it in the face of evidence just makes Pitbull supporters look like chumps.

Sitting in the comfort of our safe homes we can all pass judgement on what we would do in the situation, and how nice and playful it all looks. Yet I have seen so many threads on dol from people who have been approached or attacked by roaming dogs while out walking their dogs etc and I have yet to see one where the victim and the victim dog were blamed for it.

It's the beagles fault? It's the homeowner's fault? It's the cops fault? No. It's not. It's the offending dog's fault (and their owners), and they were stopped from causing further damage or fear. End of story. Nothing worng with that at all. It's the law, it's what we as a society expect - to be protected from imminent or actual harm.

[Salukifan]

Lets paint another scenario shall we?

Your 35kg bull breed is in its yard minding its own business. Two dogs three times its size gain access and begin posturing and playbowing at your clearly unhappy dog. You step out to shoe them away and one walks towards you, stiff legged, tail up and wagging slowly. It barks at you. Meanwhile your dog is now screaming in terror as the other dog attempts to provoke a response from it and chases it when it attempts to flee.

Yep, all your dog's fault, all your fault and what happens next will be the fault of whomever you call and is available to deal with the issue.

Get real.

[Ben and Jerry]

I'm sure if the dogs left the backyard and attacked a child whilst the police officer waited for someone else to come deal with the situation, a lot of peoples opinions would of suddenly changed to "why the police officer did nothing" :rolleyes:.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

Lets paint another scenario shall we?

Your 35kg bull breed is in its yard minding its own business. Two dogs three times its size gain access and begin posturing and playbowing at your clearly unhappy dog. You step out to shoe them away and one walks towards you, stiff legged, tail up and wagging slowly. It barks at you. Meanwhile your dog is now screaming in terror as the other dog attempts to provoke a response from it and chases it when it attempts to flee.

Yep, all your dog's fault, all your fault and what happens next will be the fault of whomever you call and is available to deal with the issue.

Get real.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

If my 30kg dog (Harley) was happily playing in our secure fenced yard and by some mystical magical way 3 dogs managed to walk through 2 sets of fences there would be an all out brawl considering Harley is dog aggressive, he would quite happily indulge any dogs that came in our yard. Using your analogy I personally would bring out a delicious morsel that I know the dogs would like and use it to distract them from my dog (if he wasn't DA of course and was cowering in a heap) and then use that to lure them into the dog run. If that was not possible I would walk over, pick my dog up (all 30kg of him) and bring him inside the house and await the rangers to come pick up the strays.

I live on acreage and almost weekly I see random dogs roaming the streets, when I first purchased my house Bella would manage to escape daily regardless of what we did to keep her in, so she was one of those roaming dogs as well. I've heard stories from our neighbours and she quite happily waltzed into other peoples yards looking for people to talk to and dogs to meet and apparently had the time of her life while she was at it.

If someone shot her I can't even describe how I would feel or what I would do to these people. But as people have previously said, it's so easy to judge - even though you don't know the entire story isn't it. ;)

[Salukifan]

I'm sure if the dogs left the backyard and attacked a child whilst the police officer waited for someone else to come deal with the situation, a lot of peoples opinions would of suddenly changed to "why the police officer did nothing" :rolleyes:.

You know I think some folk would find a way to blame the child.. for 'behaving aggressively' or taunting the dogs.

Seriously.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

No dog "has" to play with others and to suggest that any fault falls on the smaller dog here for not "playing" with the larger two is utter rubbish.

People are still blaming the Beagle? People who think that Pitbulls can do no wrong are the breed's worst enemies. Any dog, of any breed can do wrong. And blatantly denying it in the face of evidence just makes Pitbull supporters look like chumps.

Sitting in the comfort of our safe homes we can all pass judgement on what we would do in the situation, and how nice and playful it all looks. Yet I have seen so many threads on dol from people who have been approached or attacked by roaming dogs while out walking their dogs etc and I have yet to see one where the victim and the victim dog were blamed for it.

It's the beagles fault? It's the homeowner's fault? It's the cops fault? No. It's not. It's the offending dog's fault (and their owners), and they were stopped from causing further damage or fear. End of story. Nothing worng with that at all. It's the law, it's what we as a society expect - to be protected from imminent or actual harm.

Any APBT owner or anyone who supports APBT's would be stupid to think they can do know wrong. Like any dog it comes back to their owner.

I've been approached by other dogs while walking my two - not so bad when I have Bella because she will happily say hello back. But when I have Harley I leg it the other way. It is a little different to this scenario though because the beagle owner was not out walking his dog. The dogs that I see while out walking would never actually be able to get into my yard to do what these dogs did because I make sure my yard is secure to keep my dogs safe.

[Remarkabull]

I'd be devastasted if my dog was shot, however I wouldn't lay the blame at anybodies feet except my own. If MY dog is roaming then it is MY fault/problem, not the problem of other people.

Yesterday I went to the vets to get some worming tablets and while I was waiting one of the nurses brought out a SBT who had stitches and drains all over her head, neck and chest. I asked her owner what had happened to her and the answer was that she had got out of the yard and was attacked by another dog. Apparently this dog is a serial 'escape artist' and gets out regularly. The dogs owner and the nurses were all making noises about how horrible the other dog must be (probably, but without knowing exactly what happened it's just a guess) and that this sweet little girl wouldn't hurt a fly etc. All I kept thinking was if you had made sure your dog was safe in it's yard then it wouldn't be here right now! If your yard cannot contain your dog then leave it in the house, build a dog run of even chain the bloody thing up so the rest of us don't have to deal with it!

[Salukifan]

was at it.

If someone shot her I can't even describe how I would feel or what I would do to these people. But as people have previously said, it's so easy to judge - even though you don't know the entire story isn't it. ;)

The question is however would you accept responsibility for the fact your dog was at large?

A friend of mine worked on police rural patrol for many years.. killed a lot of dogs for harassing stock. He said he killed breeds you'd never consider might do this (including poodles) and on many occasions owners were horrified or disbelieving that their beloved pets could do such a thing.

There is only one safe way to protect your dogs - contain them. Blaming others for what happens when your dog gets out is avoiding the fact that its your responsibility to keep your dogs safe. Yours and no one elses.

I simply do not understand how so many Americans chain their dogs and have open yards. Yes, I think its wrong. But there were two roaming dogs here.. and an owner who should have contained them.

Edited February 29, 2012 by Telida Whippets

[Alyosha]

If my 30kg dog (Harley) was happily playing in our secure fenced yard and by some mystical magical way 3 dogs managed to walk through 2 sets of fences there would be an all out brawl considering Harley is dog aggressive, he would quite happily indulge any dogs that came in our yard. Using your analogy I personally would bring out a delicious morsel that I know the dogs would like and use it to distract them from my dog (if he wasn't DA of course and was cowering in a heap) and then use that to lure them into the dog run. If that was not possible I would walk over, pick my dog up (all 30kg of him) and bring him inside the house and await the rangers to come pick up the strays.

You are really not actually serious?? How many dogs in drive would give two hoots about any tasty morsel?? And lifting a dog up and trying to carry it from this situation is well known to be an escalating factor in attacks. So you're going to carry your dog while several powerful dogs are going at him in your arms, completely unscathed and concerned? Or perhaps while also throwing more treats about??

Worked up dogs can switch from play to prey very, very quickly. They don't want to eat, they don't want to make friends with unknown humans or be lured away from their target.

The entire point being that these dogs do not belong here. That is not the homeowner's fault for not building a fence big enough to keep whatever dogs out, but thier owner's fault for not keeping them where they belong.

Sheesh.

Human analogy: Would people here consider someone (say an univited visitor who walks in through an open back door) instigating unwanted sexual advances as being playful? Maybe, maybe a little predatory, but in a playful way. If the victim chooses to not engage, outwardly says so and cowers away in fear, and the offender continues - it's the victim's fault? Because they didn't want to play? Or they didn't stay somewhere where that offender couldn't access them?? If they are physically injured and traumatised it is still their fault because they didn't lock the door to keep that visitor out? If the cops arrive and the offender aggressively shapes up to them and gets belted or even shot, it's now the cops' as well as the victim's fault?

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

was at it.

If someone shot her I can't even describe how I would feel or what I would do to these people. But as people have previously said, it's so easy to judge - even though you don't know the entire story isn't it. ;)

The question is however would you accept responsibility for the fact your dog was at large?

A friend of mine worked on police rural patrol for many years.. killed a lot of dogs for harassing stock. He said he killed breeds you'd never consider might do this (including poodles) and on many occasions owners were horrified or disbelieving that their beloved pets could do such a thing.

There is only one safe way to protect your dogs - contain them. Blaming others for what happens when your dog gets out is avoiding the fact that its your responsibility to keep your dogs safe. Yours and no one elses.

I simply do not understand how so many Americans chain their dogs and have open yards. Yes, I think its wrong. But there were two roaming dogs here.. and an owner who should have contained them.

Nah I blame the neighbours :laugh: ... of course I accept responsibility - it is my dog and it is my job to keep her safe. I paid for the fence to be replaced and built a dog run which she is in when I am not home. Problem solved and we have never had to worry about the issue since.

But as a dog owner it is also my responsibility to ensure that not only can my dogs not get out.. but that nothing can get in either. We back onto farm land and our boundary fence has three layers of fencing to make sure nothing can find its way onto our property.

As I said before, the dogs should not have been out of their yard, I don't think anyone here disagrees with that fact... you can't blame anyone else but the owners (whether they were aware the dogs had escaped or not). I personally think they should not have been able to get into the yard that the beagle was contained in either and at the end of the day I would not have shot them either way. That's just me.

I agree that it is stupid to have an unfenced house with a dog chained up... that makes no sense what so ever and it can't be a good life for any dog put in that situation.

So to the OP's original question - Yes, I think the office was out of line.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

You are really not actually serious?? How many dogs in drive would give two hoots about any tasty morsel?? And lifting a dog up and trying to carry it from this situation is well known to be an escalating factor in attacks. So you're going to carry your dog while several powerful dogs are going at him in your arms, completely unscathed and concerned? Or perhaps while also throwing more treats about??

Worked up dogs can switch from play to prey very, very quickly. They don't want to eat, they don't want to make friends with unknown humans or be lured away from their target.

The entire point being that these dogs do not belong here. That is not the homeowner's fault for not building a fence big enough to keep whatever dogs out, but thier owner's fault for not keeping them where they belong.

Sheesh.

Human analogy: Would people here consider someone (say an univited visitor who walks in through an open back door) instigating unwanted sexual advances as being playful? Maybe, maybe a little predatory, but in a playful way. If the victim chooses to not engage, outwardly says so and cowers away in fear, and the offender continues - it's the victim's fault? Because they didn't want to play? Or they didn't stay somewhere where that offender couldn't access them?? If they are physically injured and traumatised it is still their fault because they didn't lock the door to keep that visitor out? If the cops arrive and the offender aggressively shapes up to them and gets belted or even shot, it's now the cops' as well as the victim's fault?

Lol I am actually serious. I remember one time I was walking Bella at our last house and some mangy cattle dog cross staffy mutt came charging out of its partially fenced yard and went to attack her. I picked Bella up and stood there with the dog barking and carrying on until the owner pulled their finger out and did something. I've stopped dog fights between Rottys and GSD before (regardless of the fact you shouldn't get involved) and I would do it again to protect my dogs.

[Alyosha]

We're all very good at assuming things around here. Do we know that the Beagle is a resident here? That it lives on a chain?? What if family are visiting and he's been tied up to give him some outdoor time while keeping him safe from wandering?? Could they be in the process of rebuilding a fence and have him tied up in the meantime?

And we're happy to pass judgement about his quality of life? Hardly the point is it. His life that day would've no doubt been of a much higher quality had be not been attacked unprovoked by wandering ratbags.

All of which goes to show how little is known of the entire situation, and how many assupmptions and judgements are being made.

Anyone who is publicly stating that this cop is out of line is criticising his professionalism. Are you all prepared to ring or write to his PD and offer your learned opinions on why you know his actions were so far out of line? On why you know better than he did with all your training, experience and all your background information on this incident? If not, I would expect you could hold your opinions and not be so slanderous.

[Jade~Harley~Bella]

We're all very good at assuming things around here. Do we know that the Beagle is a resident here? That it lives on a chain?? What if family are visiting and he's been tied up to give him some outdoor time while keeping him safe from wandering?? Could they be in the process of rebuilding a fence and have him tied up in the meantime?

And we're happy to pass judgement about his quality of life? Hardly the point is it. His life that day would've no doubt been of a much higher quality had be not been attacked unprovoked by wandering ratbags.

All of which goes to show how little is known of the entire situation, and how many assupmptions and judgements are being made.

Anyone who is publicly stating that this cop is out of line is criticising his professionalism. Are you all prepared to ring or write to his PD and offer your learned opinions on why you know his actions were so far out of line? On why you know better than he did with all your training, experience and all your background information on this incident? If not, I would expect you could hold your opinions and not be so slanderous.

:laugh: Haha woo up sport.

We aren't talking about the beagle - we are talking about any dog in general that is left on a chain all day. You don't find that mean in any way? There are rotties up the road from me and in the whole 8 months I have lived in my house I have seen them off the chain once. I personally don't think those dogs have a very good quality of life.

And yes, I think the cop was out of line. I have said that a few times.