Breed Id Required

[chezal58]

Can anyone help with best guess as to breed for this fella. He is a local surrender and his chip papers say Lhasa Apso but I already had one of those and it was about the size of a slightly taller Shihtzu. This guy has the build and size of a bassett hound - without the long ears and snout so I doubt that's right, but he is certainly much bigger and heavier that a lhasa. Just wanted some help with his description??? I know he's matted and needs grooming, he's also not yet had vet work but I literaly only picked him up at 4pm this arvo so am still scratching my head on this one. Loves to bark though! ;) :)

Thanks in advance

Cheryl

[mita]

He does look a little bit like the dog in the centre of the main photo. This breeder says she's breeding the 'old' type of Lhasa Apso, however that differs.

Maybe his hair has been previously cut.

http://www.lhasadogs.com/INTRO.html

Also looks a bit like a small version of a Tibetan Terrier.

http://www.google.com.au/imgres?q=clipped+Tibetan+Terrier&um=1&hl=en&client=safari&sa=N&rls=en&biw=1024&bih=603&tbm=isch&tbnid=31sZUng20L9vgM:&imgrefurl=http://www.dogbreedsaz.com/tibetan-terrier.html&docid=LtfjcmdLsgIZ7M&imgurl=http://www.dogbreedsaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/3_20Tibetan_20Terriers_2DCarol_20T_small.jpg&w=525&h=371&ei=Mk9LT-isFqmKmQXRvMmuDg&zoom=1

Maybe ask the registered breeders. When we're in doubt about Tibbie or not, we run the pics past the breeders.

Edited February 27, 2012 by mita

[chezal58]

Thanks Mita will ask - maybe lhasa cross tibetan?

He is a larger dog though like I said. Strange one this one.

Edited February 27, 2012 by chezal58

[mita]

Chez, how about I run the pics past the pres. of the tibbie club in Victoria. She used to be pres. of the oriental breeds association, so came to know breeders of lhasa, tibetan terriers etc?

I'll get back to you if I get any comments.

[Salukifan]

Defintely crossbred and my guess is that he's not an F1 of any two breeds.

At a guess I'd say there's some Silky Terrier in there.

[chezal58]

Fair call - could be a bit of anything. Photos don't really show just how big this guy is. Imagine biggest bassett hound then add a couple of kgs :laugh:

Would have to be a silky on steroids. ;)

[chezal58]

Chez, how about I run the pics past the pres. of the tibbie club in Victoria. She used to be pres. of the oriental breeds association, so came to know breeders of lhasa, tibetan terriers etc?

I'll get back to you if I get any comments.

Thanks Mita. It will be interesting.

[mita]

Chez, how about I run the pics past the pres. of the tibbie club in Victoria. She used to be pres. of the oriental breeds association, so came to know breeders of lhasa, tibetan terriers etc?

I'll get back to you if I get any comments.

Thanks Mita. It will be interesting.

And I included 'Mixed'!

[KKDD]

Dandy Dinmont Terrier?

Long, low and 8-11kg.

[mita]

You won't be surprised, chez. Got a reply from the tib club pres who ran the pic & your description past a Lhasa breeder. No way a Lhasa.

Her comment was looks 'Terrier' type.

Which is why he looks like someone shrunk a Tibetan Terrier, to me....except there's no such thing! :)

[Alyosha]

No way he's Dandie, there's less than a handful of breeders in Aust and not many more dogs.

He really looks to me like a classic "Benji" mutt. Gorgeous but untraceable. Benji could be said to have a little bit of a Lhasa look, a lot of terrier, but a bit of size and silky coat.

Maybe the Benji type comes from something like Airedale crossed with something silky and toy-breed like? Lhasa, Shihtzu, even Maltese etc.

Unless... more from your description than the photos... Is he a PBGV cross?

[mita]

He really looks to me like a classic "Benji" mutt. Gorgeous but untraceable. Benji could be said to have a little bit of a Lhasa look, a lot of terrier, but a bit of size and silky coat.

Funny you should say that, Alyosha, about the Benji mutt.

Couple years ago, someone put a family on to me. This family were trying to find (their own words!), a 'Disney Dog'. They'd seen a dog in a Disney pic & wanted one like it. But didn't know a breed label. It wasn't Benji, but a similar bigger dog.

Someone had told them that they thought the 'Disney Dog' was a breed from the Himalayas. Which was why they'd been passed on to me, as I own Tibetan Spaniels.

I showed them pics of Tibbies.....no, that wasn't the DD. Then a pic of a clipped Lhasa Apso....no. Then a clipped Tibetan Terrier....yes, they said. That's the closest to the Disney Dog! So off they went to find TT breeders.

But I honestly don't think the dog in the Disney movie was a p/b Tibetan Terrier.

If we can have 'Disney Dogs', maybe we can have 'Benji Dogs', too. And this rescue fellow is a Benji Dog.

[Salukifan]

He really looks to me like a classic "Benji" mutt. Gorgeous but untraceable. Benji could be said to have a little bit of a Lhasa look, a lot of terrier, but a bit of size and silky coat.

Funny you should say that, Alyosha, about the Benji mutt.

Couple years ago, someone put a family on to me. This family were trying to find (their own words!), a 'Disney Dog'. They'd seen a dog in a Disney pic & wanted one like it. But didn't know a breed label. It wasn't Benji, but a similar bigger dog.

Someone had told them that they thought the 'Disney Dog' was a breed from the Himalayas. Which was why they'd been passed on to me, as I own Tibetan Spaniels.

I showed them pics of Tibbies.....no, that wasn't the DD. Then a pic of a clipped Lhasa Apso....no. Then a clipped Tibetan Terrier....yes, they said. That's the closest to the Disney Dog! So off they went to find TT breeders.

But I honestly don't think the dog in the Disney movie was a p/b Tibetan Terrier.

If we can have 'Disney Dogs', maybe we can have 'Benji Dogs', too. And this rescue fellow is a Benji Dog.

It might have been the Winn Dixie dog... who I think was a Briard???

[Diva]

Fair call - could be a bit of anything. Photos don't really show just how big this guy is. Imagine biggest bassett hound then add a couple of kgs :laugh:

Do you really mean that? Because a male Bassett can be not far off 30 kilos, if this dog is that plus most of the breeds mentioned so far don't cut it.

I'm another vote for not an F1 cross, but terrier type.

It might have been the Winn Dixie dog... who I think was a Briard???

I thought that was a Picardy Shepherd?

Edited February 29, 2012 by Diva

[mita]

It might have been the Winn Dixie dog... who I think was a Briard???

I just googled that Winn Dixie dog. No, it has more the look of a shepherd.

I tried to track down what Disney movie that family might have been talking about.

My guess is the Tim Allen movie 'Shaggy Dog'.

I found that the dog was a Bearded Collie. Which fits why a Tibetan Terrier looked close to them.

http://beardie.net/hobo/media/media.htm

[chezal58]

Thanks everyone for the suggestions. It's certainly a strange dog. I looked at the PBGV sites and this one http://www.greatdogsite.com/breeds/details/Petit_Basset_Griffon_Vendeen/ had a picture of two with their owner that are about the same size as "Sam" but "Sam" is actually a bit longer in the body and has shorter ears. He does have a wiry coat though but very unkept and in need of some grooming, flea treatment and a bath! As for bearded Collie - maybe with the legs of something shorter. I did think tibetan terriers seemed closer in size and weight by the sites I have checked. I estimate him to be 13-15kgs and about 12 -13inches tall at the withers with a broad back. His tail has a curl but nothing like lhasa tails and his body and tail from nose to tip would be about 100cms. Neck to Base of tail 22inches (56cm. However it must be remembered that he is 11 months old and may not be fully grown.

[Alyosha]

Could he be something relatively simple like a working breed type x with a scruffy terrier type? Don't get caught up thinking terrier cross means small, plenty of terrier breeds are bigger than people imagine.

[mita]

I did think tibetan terriers seemed closer in size and weight by the sites I have checked. I estimate him to be 13-15kgs and about 12 -13inches tall at the withers with a broad back. His tail has a curl but nothing like lhasa tails and his body and tail from nose to tip would be about 100cms. Neck to Base of tail 22inches (56cm. However it must be remembered that he is 11 months old and may not be fully grown.

A full grown Tibetan Terrier's height is 14-18 inches, weight can be between 8-14 kgs (ideal 9.5 to 11 kgs). I believe their overall proportions are supposed to give the impression of a square shape.

Their tail is set high & carried in a curl over the back.

They're also not really a 'Terrier', that name was given when they came to the West (just like Tibetan Spaniels are not really 'Spaniels').

Its so strange how Lhasa Apso got onto his microchip....maybe he's a mix with something bigger. Lhasas are not a common breed, so whoever put that on his microchip knew something we don't. :)

There's an experienced French Tibbie breeder on our Tibbie list. She's got a very sharp eye for characteristics of breeds. I'll ask her for an opinion.

Edited February 29, 2012 by mita

[tdierikx]

There are possibly quite a few mixes in this little guy... possible that the mother may have had Lhasa in her, but the genetics haven't panned her way in this boy... *grin*

Having seen a few litters of crossbred pups over the years, it's amazing how so many don't look anything like what they are supposed to be mixed with.

Think about the great diversity of coat and build in "Labradoodles" for example - one knows they are Labrador/Poodle, but you'd be hard pressed to identify either in some of the offspring...

Then throw into the mix the possibility of more than one male dog siring pups in the litter - and you have a complete lucky dip as to what the pups will turn out like.

My best guess for this boy is "Terrier mix"... but "Cuddlehound" sounds good too... *grin*

T.

[chezal58]

Cuddlehound it is tdierikx - Don;t want to have to answer to any established breed register so maybe we can start one for this! One of my other carers says "Teddy Bear", but maybe not the drag-around-by-the-well-worn-ear type! :)

Just hope he finds the right home. He seems wary rather than shy and of course after grooming (if it ever stops raining) he may look very different. ;) Thank you to everyone for their opinion and comments. You have been most helpful in giving me some options.

cheryl