Dog On Trazadone, Valium And Prozac

[samoyedman]

http://www.smh.com.au/environment/animals/not-a-black-dog-but-hes-on-prozac-20120225-1tv4u.html

BEFORE Prozac, Valium, trazodone and therapy, Snicker was a mess.

As soon as his owner put her hand on the front door, he would howl uncontrollably.

''And if I continued to leave he would do that non-stop until I returned,'' Alexandra Thorpe, 27, from Leichhardt, said.

The Staffordshire bull terrier was diagnosed with ''separation anxiety'' and prescribed a daily dose of Prozac combined with Valium and trazodone to help him handle panic attacks and stressful situations. He also underwent behavioural therapy.

Snicker's housemate, Jaspa, a six-year-old chihuahua, was diagnosed with milder anxiety and began similar treatment.

The field of animal mental health has been expanding fast, say some Sydney veterinarians, and treatments are now mirroring those used on humans.

At Cremorne Veterinary Hospital, Dr Louise Stevenson said she prescribes ''about 10 times more'' behavioural medication than a decade ago.

Twenty years ago there was not a single person in Australia who treated mental health in animals, said Dr Andrew O'Shea, incoming president of the behavioural group of the Australian Veterinary Association. Today there are specialists, university courses in veterinary behavioural medicine, and sophisticated drugs.

''The segment has grown significantly,'' agreed Andrew Palmer, a spokesman for Novartis, which sells Clomicalm, a separation-anxiety pill for dogs.

In recent years stormy weather has accelerated the trend and made more owners aware of their pets' psyches. Kersti Seksel, who runs the Sydney Animal Behaviour Service, said ''storm anxiety'' had become so widespread her clinic recruited almost 200 storm-anxious dogs and researched alternative treatments. The report is yet to be released, but Dr Seksel said the ''overwhelming'' result was that anti-anxiety medication proved the most effective treatment, as it is with other forms of anxiety in dogs.

As for four-year-old Snicker, Ms Thorpe said he has been a ''different dog'' since Dr Seksel began treating him six months ago.

He is ''doing wonderfully'' and has been weaned off all drugs except Prozac, which he still takes daily.

Jaspa is progressing a little more slowly, but the canine companions have calmed down immensely since they began relaxation exercises, medication, and lying by the plug-in air freshener. ''It copies the pheromone that is released from nursing mothers,'' Ms Thorpe said.

''They call it lactating bitches,'' her partner, Stephen Muscat, explained.

Edited February 26, 2012 by samoyedman

[Guest lavendergirl]

Interesting article - I wish there was a similar behavioural clinic in Brisbane where there is a distinct shortage of veterinary behaviourists. I think some dogs are just hard wired for anxiety and all the behaviour modification in the world won't fix their anxiety issues - they really do need medication.

[huck house]

I've been told that clomicalm can make some dogs aggressive and should be really carefully prescribed.

[itsadogslife]

mmm, article reminds me why I would never take my dog to a behaviorist.

[jrm88]

Clomicalm doesnt make dogs more aggressive, there is a group of behavioral medications that shouldnt be used with fear aggressive dogs. Some benzodiazepines (include diazepam, alprazolam and clonazepam)can cause fear aggressive dogs to lose fear agression inhibition and can be more likely to show aggression.

I also believe clomicalm shouldnt be used to reduce aggression anyway, it is used mainly for seperation anxiety and other anxiety based behaviors.

There are certain other drugs of choice to be used for aggressive dogs :)

ETA:

Behavourists are needed, there are many dogs with hardwiring issues that cannot be "fixed" or managed with behavioral modification alone.

Edited February 27, 2012 by jrm88

[OzzieLioness]

How bizarre!!

I'd have to wonder if the benzo's go the same way in animals as they do in people - after the 'therapeutic' result where a benzo calms a person, in the long term it works the OTHER way - it makes people aggressive, anxious etc.

I am gob smacked that you'd put an animal on it and keep them on it - I used to use a sedative in my horses when I had them ... absolutely ONLY a 3 day thing ... if, for example, thy were scared of traffic, because I am 5ft nothing, handling a 17 - 18 HH TB that is freaking out can be tricky. So, 3 days of calming medicine and intensive behavioural treatment. Problem fixed, medication stopped.

I don't know how you'd solve seperation anxiety in a dog, BUT I bet someone like Dr. Harry would know! And I bet it would not involve Valium!!

He'll be at Pets Galore in Toowoomba this weekend - I am going, so if I get a chane, I'll ask him! :D

[Guest lavendergirl]

How bizarre!!

I'd have to wonder if the benzo's go the same way in animals as they do in people - after the 'therapeutic' result where a benzo calms a person, in the long term it works the OTHER way - it makes people aggressive, anxious etc.

I am gob smacked that you'd put an animal on it and keep them on it - I used to use a sedative in my horses when I had them ... absolutely ONLY a 3 day thing ... if, for example, thy were scared of traffic, because I am 5ft nothing, handling a 17 - 18 HH TB that is freaking out can be tricky. So, 3 days of calming medicine and intensive behavioural treatment. Problem fixed, medication stopped.

I don't know how you'd solve seperation anxiety in a dog, BUT I bet someone like Dr. Harry would know! And I bet it would not involve Valium!!

He'll be at Pets Galore in Toowoomba this weekend - I am going, so if I get a chane, I'll ask him! :D

Yes - do ask him. Though if Dr Harry has a cure I would be very surprised :D

[Aidan3]

It's all a conspiracy by big pharma who sponsor all the so-called research. Poor drugged out puppies lost in a purple haze.

[Aidan3]

I've been told that clomicalm can make some dogs aggressive and should be really carefully prescribed.

All medicines, including anxiolytics, should be carefully prescribed. Thankfully a large body of research informs trained professionals when, where and how they should be used to benefit dogs and what the risks are.

[jrm88]

Of course behavioral modification and training can work in dogs with minor problems, but when you have a dog who hurting themselves and a risk to those around them, medication may be needed.

It is the same as treating mental illness in humans in the sense that there is something awry with the chemicals in the brain, and giving medication to someone with schizophrenia is just like giving someone with diabetes the insulin they need to live.

Some vets don't know what they are doing and may prescribe the wrong thing for the wrong reason, but there are also great vets/specialists out there who recognize a true behavior problem rather than a problem behavior.

[OzzieLioness]

Of course behavioral modification and training can work in dogs with minor problems, but when you have a dog who hurting themselves and a risk to those around them, medication may be needed.

It is the same as treating mental illness in humans in the sense that there is something awry with the chemicals in the brain, and giving medication to someone with schizophrenia is just like giving someone with diabetes the insulin they need to live.

Some vets don't know what they are doing and may prescribe the wrong thing for the wrong reason, but there are also great vets/specialists out there who recognize a true behavior problem rather than a problem behavior.

jrm88 ... I totally get your analogy with regard to medication for humans with mental health issues, or diabetes etc etc. And agree with you - there would be problems where a dog needs meds for the rest of their life - indeed, my son's elderly dog is on phenobarbitol because she developed epilepsy last year.

I strongly question the use of benzodiazapams, long term, is all.

In people, paradoxically, long term Valium use can cause:

* Anxiety

* Hyperexcitability

* Increased muscle spasticity

* Insomnia

* Anger

Now, I understand that people are not dogs ... BUT .... I still would question and be very concerned for the dogs, with the use of it, given the symptoms that long term use has proven to cause in humans.

[huck house]

I just looked at a couple of sites that list behavioral medications . The descriptions are quite cautionary and also some state that the need to be taken in conjunction with practicing behavior modification techniques.

I didn't read any that said they would 'treat aggressive dogs', more that they address anxiety.

http://www.peteducation.com/category.cfm?c=0+1457

[huck house]

Would they be used with pheromones as well?

[itsadogslife]

Posted by Aidan2 All medicines, including anxiolytics, should be carefully prescribed. Thankfully a large body of research informs trained professionals when, where and how they should be used to benefit dogs and what the risks are.

A large body of research also informs the medical profession, but as I live with a doctor I know that drugs are too often not prescribed in what you might call an informed manner. With doctors it is often simply easier to proscribe than having to deal with highly unpleasant, aggressive patients etc.

The high (and increasing) rate of drugs prescribed to dogs is a cultural problem, not a medical problem.

I would have much more faith in veterinary behaviorists ability to properly diagnose behavioral problems if said vets also had considerable training experience.

But then I suspect many dog owners have neither the time or inclination to train. Drugs provide a very easy option. And of course, provide no harm to the pockets of behaviorists.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Do vets undertake any study in dog behaviour as part of their training? I am astounded at the vets I have consulted who want to refer me to "specialist" vets - rare and hugely expensive - because they don't have the "expertise" to address separation anxiety. Surely they must undertake some basic training in dog behaviour - enough to at least prescribe for these conditions? This attitude IMO is in part responsible for people despairing and dumping their dogs in shelters as people simply don't have the hundreds of dollars to consult "specialists".

[jrm88]

Lavendergirl, vets should know the basics, but many don't. Also if your dogs issues are severe, they may need two medications which then becomes much more complicated as you need to know more about how the drugs interact with each other and their effects.

There are "GP" vets out there who have a big interest in behavior so really know what they are talking about and charge heaps heaps less than behavioral specialists do :) also remember, 10yrs ago, no one treated these issues with medication, so those vets who have been out a while may not be up with it all.

[Aidan3]

Now, I understand that people are not dogs ... BUT .... I still would question and be very concerned for the dogs, with the use of it, given the symptoms that long term use has proven to cause in humans.

Do you know of any cases where benzos have been prescribed for long-term, regular use?

[Aidan3]

Posted by Aidan2 All medicines, including anxiolytics, should be carefully prescribed. Thankfully a large body of research informs trained professionals when, where and how they should be used to benefit dogs and what the risks are.

A large body of research also informs the medical profession, but as I live with a doctor I know that drugs are too often not prescribed in what you might call an informed manner. With doctors it is often simply easier to proscribe than having to deal with highly unpleasant, aggressive patients etc.

The high (and increasing) rate of drugs prescribed to dogs is a cultural problem, not a medical problem.

I would have much more faith in veterinary behaviorists ability to properly diagnose behavioral problems if said vets also had considerable training experience.

But then I suspect many dog owners have neither the time or inclination to train. Drugs provide a very easy option. And of course, provide no harm to the pockets of behaviorists.

What is the "cultural problem" that you have identified (in relation to dogs)?

Are you suggesting that Dr Seksel (for example, as she is the main veterinary behaviourist interviewed in the article) does not have considerable training experience? Or that the dogs in the article have been misdiagnosed and treated incorrectly?

I would suggest we live in a better world with drugs than without, although it may contribute to the pet overpopulation problem as previously these dogs lived mercifully short lives. If people stop training and exercising their dogs in preference to medication, then I think we would have a serious cultural problem; and that does happen, but not as often as suggested. Most people who fork out for veterinary behaviourist services and drugs (which are very expensive, not being subsidised by the PBS) have a genuine need.

For the dogs who are prescribed drugs, but do not strictly "need" them, the medication offers little benefit. SSRIs and TCAs are not tranquilizers or sedatives and in fact, may have the opposite effect. Their owners are unlikely to see improvement, and hopefully will take different measures in light of this information.

[Jumabaar]

Do vets undertake any study in dog behaviour as part of their training? I am astounded at the vets I have consulted who want to refer me to "specialist" vets - rare and hugely expensive - because they don't have the "expertise" to address separation anxiety. Surely they must undertake some basic training in dog behaviour - enough to at least prescribe for these conditions? This attitude IMO is in part responsible for people despairing and dumping their dogs in shelters as people simply don't have the hundreds of dollars to consult "specialists".

Would you have your GP do an ultrasound, perform a hysterectomy on you, think of themselves as a physiologist, diagnose and treat agressive forms of cancer, perform heart surgery??? Yes vets do get basic training in behaviour but we also get basic training in surgery and medicine for large ad small animals, behaviour for large and small animals etc. So at some point your general vet IS going to be out of their depth in ALL fields!! So the smart/ethical vets then give you the option to see a specialist because the specialist has a far greater pool of knowledge to treat your animal. If people dont want to see a specialist then the vet does the best they can in the time they have.

Its not the vet who is responsible for the dog being dumped its the OWNER who made that decision. Its the 'blame someone else' attitude that people like you have that allows people to dump their dog and feel that they can blame the vet because the vet didnt treat their dog.

I have seen these drugs allow dogs to achieve amazing results. It has allowed owners to work through problems they have been having and eventually wean dogs off the drugs and be able to compete in agility and other sports, where before even seeing another dog put their dog over threshold.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Do vets undertake any study in dog behaviour as part of their training? I am astounded at the vets I have consulted who want to refer me to "specialist" vets - rare and hugely expensive - because they don't have the "expertise" to address separation anxiety. Surely they must undertake some basic training in dog behaviour - enough to at least prescribe for these conditions? This attitude IMO is in part responsible for people despairing and dumping their dogs in shelters as people simply don't have the hundreds of dollars to consult "specialists".

Would you have your GP do an ultrasound, perform a hysterectomy on you, think of themselves as a physiologist, diagnose and treat agressive forms of cancer, perform heart surgery??? Yes vets do get basic training in behaviour but we also get basic training in surgery and medicine for large ad small animals, behaviour for large and small animals etc. So at some point your general vet IS going to be out of their depth in ALL fields!! So the smart/ethical vets then give you the option to see a specialist because the specialist has a far greater pool of knowledge to treat your animal. If people dont want to see a specialist then the vet does the best they can in the time they have.

Its not the vet who is responsible for the dog being dumped its the OWNER who made that decision. Its the 'blame someone else' attitude that people like you have that allows people to dump their dog and feel that they can blame the vet because the vet didnt treat their dog.

I have seen these drugs allow dogs to achieve amazing results. It has allowed owners to work through problems they have been having and eventually wean dogs off the drugs and be able to compete in agility and other sports, where before even seeing another dog put their dog over threshold.

Excuse me? My dog is a rescue dog that someone else dumped and I am trying to help overcome his problems. It was not me who dumped the dog and I have spent many hundreds of dollars trying to resolve the issues he has. GPs don't automatically refer people straight to "specialists" for mental health issues either - many will try to assist at a certain level before referral. Vets should be able to do the same.

Edited February 28, 2012 by lavendergirl