Help, Please Storm Phobic Dog

[bianca.a]

Hehe I can only imagine! If mine was a sharper tool (in the shed) she probably would have done similar :laugh:

Link that does mention increased appetite!

http://www.petplace.com/drug-library/alprazolam-xanax/page1.aspx

[Jigsaw]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

[WoofnHoof]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

Thanks Jigsaw I just had a look at the bottle and it is ACE (Acepromazine) so I might try and look into getting some valium for her, the biggest problem is still if I am not home though

[Blackdogs]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

I would like to know where you get this information from. I have heard this before, but have not found a reliable source indicating that this is true. Most of the vets I speak with disagree on this point. It is a drug that is specifically and regularly prescribed for anxiety issues.

[Guest lavendergirl]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

That is my understanding also - very distressing for the dogs if limbs are "paralysed" but the mental alertness is still there.

[mita]

That is really interesting Mita! Could it be perhaps that your dogs aren't phased so that influences her?

It would be just my luck that now we have the pup (who didn't raise a sleepy eyelid) that she is the opposite! :laugh:

I did actually contemplate chucking her in the car and going to visit my parents but to be honest I didn't really want to drive in that weather. Perhaps next time, I could take her next door and see how she goes. She plays with the Lhasa Apso (sp) all the time and he does not stress about thunder etc.

Worth a try, Bianca. And your girl's already used to playing with the Lhasa!

Lily is generally an anxious little dog, but she seems to lose that anxiety when she's part of a dog 'pack' with our 2 tibbie girls...& in their 'territory'.

Edited February 26, 2012 by mita

[Aidan3]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

I would like to know where you get this information from. I have heard this before, but have not found a reliable source indicating that this is true. Most of the vets I speak with disagree on this point. It is a drug that is specifically and regularly prescribed for anxiety issues.

[Jigsaw]

Thank you Aiden!

[Kavik]

Thanks Aidan!

My storm phobic dog likes to be under something - under a bed or coffee table, more so than a crate (still will bark in a crate, but is happy to lie quietly under a coffee table).

[Weasels]

Agree with sheena, a covered crate and a thundershirt might make her feel more secure. As hard as it is you should try to ignore her behaviour not cuddle her.

From a previous thread

It is NOT the worst thing you can do! What you are seeing is an emotional response. It is not operative, therefore, it does not fall under the rules of the quadrants. You cannot reinforce it. I repeat, you cannot reinforce it. There is so much confusion around this and it drives me crazy because dogs suffer because people are too afraid to do anything lest they reinforce something that cannot be reinforced with rewards. Positive reinforcement creates a positive emotional state. Fear is a negative emotional state. They are antagonistic. One will win out. "Rewarding" fearful behaviour can only help change a fearful animal's emotional state to a positive one. The confusion I think lies in coddling. Lots of nervous energy around a dog that is already fearful does not make them feel better. Making baby sounds and cooing over them and so on may well make them worse, but not because it is rewarding. It just prepares them to feel frightened and arouses them so they become more reactive. Calm comforting will not make it worse. It probably won't make it better either, but I know dogs that it did help, my own being one of them. Some of us spent years stoically ignoring our fearful dogs because we thought it was best for them, only to try comforting as a last resort when they were old and we figured it couldn't get any worse. If your dog can't settle on their own, there is nothing at all wrong with comforting them if it calms them.

I believe in this- I dont give my dogs attention when they are reacting in a way I dont want but I do tell them ist normal and that if they want to come up for a cuddle its fine, just like its fine to come up and have a cuddle at any other time. I dont make scary incidents a 'special' time for them but I dont with hold attention.

ETA- just checking that the vet did a full exam and tried to rule out any physical reasons for the sudden reactivity?

Thanks for posting this Jumabaar :) I saw someone in a recent thread say you can only reinforce behaviour, not emotions and I've been meaning to chase up more about this. But that all made perfect sense

[bianca.a]

Thanks again Mita!

Thanks for that link Aiden.

Our weather has been surprisingly good today and Molly is apart from now when I let her outside to toilet. She will do her business and then when I call her to come in she tries to slink away and hide in the gardens. It's really weird and doesn't matter if Cooper is out with her or not. I have tried to bribe her with yummies but she is totally disinterested.

I am just pleased she is only 28 KGS and I can pick her up and carry her!

Any ideas please?

[Blackdogs]

When I'm at home she is usually ok although she will try and escape and that's a big problem as she will ping off down the road. If I can catch it in time I give her a tranquiliser from the vet (I think it's ACE) but it's getting to be such a big problem at this time of year with so many storms around they blow through very quickly.

ACE is not normally recommended for storm phobic dogs. From my understanding it relaxes the dog but it may still be mentally alert and distressed by the storm but unable to react which can stress the dog even more. Valium is the drug that is usually recommended for storm phobia. Although it is an idea to try it first because in some dogs (as humans) they can become more amped up.

I would like to know where you get this information from. I have heard this before, but have not found a reliable source indicating that this is true. Most of the vets I speak with disagree on this point. It is a drug that is specifically and regularly prescribed for anxiety issues.

That was interesting. Thanks for the post. It's odd that many people who have used this for noise phobias report their dog has slept soundly through the storm. I don't purport to know more than this Dr does, and steer clear of Ace because I have heard these reports from lay people, but in practical application Ace seems to work fairly well in a lot of cases. Do you know of any other sources supporting this position that don't reference the above posted source?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

I know some people who keep something they call "thunder bones" in the fridge or freezer - but the dog has to like bones, be safe to have a bone (mine isn't), and you have to hand the bone over before the dog notices the thunderstorm ie when the storm are forecast or approaching (use the rain radar) but before they arrive.

I've read that the thunder shirts work too. And it helps if the owner puts on a good show of being "not bothered". When I first got my puppy - it was fire works season (new years and australia day and etc) and I'd sit inside with her with the doors and windows shut and watch telly and act like it was nothing important. Same with thunderstorms. She's less freaked about those than I am. I go round unplugging all my stuff when they're around.

My brother's dog goes bonkers, but she learned it from his previous dog (they overlapped). She's ok as long as she can be inside with her people and they're not bothered. Of course my brother has a hard time pretending to be not bothered, because his first dog nearly strangled herself trying to get over a fence when she was tied up during a thunderstorm.

My dog freaked one time when there was an extremely loud thunderclap directly over her kennel shed - she was boarding at the time. She shredded all her bedding. Which seemed like good therapy to me.

[Aidan3]

I don't purport to know more than this Dr does, and steer clear of Ace because I have heard these reports from lay people, but in practical application Ace seems to work fairly well in a lot of cases. Do you know of any other sources supporting this position that don't reference the above posted source?

Overall is a very big name in small animal behavioural pharmacology so it would be hard to find a paper that didn't cite her work, but here are some references I've found that are available on the internet:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18202&O=Generic

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-3862.2008.tb00529.x/abstract

This one refers to air-transport, the basic message is the same, the dog is sedated but still shows the physiological signs of anxiety:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146895

[Guest lavendergirl]

I don't purport to know more than this Dr does, and steer clear of Ace because I have heard these reports from lay people, but in practical application Ace seems to work fairly well in a lot of cases. Do you know of any other sources supporting this position that don't reference the above posted source?

Overall is a very big name in small animal behavioural pharmacology so it would be hard to find a paper that didn't cite her work, but here are some references I've found that are available on the internet:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18202&O=Generic

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-3862.2008.tb00529.x/abstract

This one refers to air-transport, the basic message is the same, the dog is sedated but still shows the physiological signs of anxiety:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146895

Aiden these are excellent articles relating to noise phobia pharmacology - do you have any similar links dealing with separation anxiety?

[sas]

More serious cases of fear and phobias

The topics turned to more serious cases of fear and noise phobias and the need for medications. The "old" medication standby for thunderstorms was a drug commonly referred to as "Ace," short for Acepromazine (Promace ®). This drug is not the best choice for this, because while it sedates, it is not anxiety-reducing (anxiolytic). While it takes away the ability to move (most of the time) doesn't calm the fears, in effect making them much worse over time. Read more about Acepromazine and Chlorpromazine by Terry Kelley CVT, CPDT.

Edited February 27, 2012 by MEH

[Aidan3]

I don't purport to know more than this Dr does, and steer clear of Ace because I have heard these reports from lay people, but in practical application Ace seems to work fairly well in a lot of cases. Do you know of any other sources supporting this position that don't reference the above posted source?

Overall is a very big name in small animal behavioural pharmacology so it would be hard to find a paper that didn't cite her work, but here are some references I've found that are available on the internet:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18202&O=Generic

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-3862.2008.tb00529.x/abstract

This one refers to air-transport, the basic message is the same, the dog is sedated but still shows the physiological signs of anxiety:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146895

Aiden these are excellent articles relating to noise phobia pharmacology - do you have any similar links dealing with separation anxiety?

At this stage I think it's a case of trialling modern anxiolytics to see which one works best for your dog, and a lot of vets seem to be fairly well informed on those and the trial periods to employ. Which behaviour modification strategy to use is more contentious, with very little empirical support for some of the frequently suggested strategies. It's something I refer to veterinary behaviourists, so I'm not very up to date on this, sorry.

[mita]

[ The "old" medication standby for thunderstorms was a drug commonly referred to as "Ace," short for Acepromazine (Promace ®). This drug is not the best choice for this, because while it sedates, it is not anxiety-reducing (anxiolytic). While it takes away the ability to move (most of the time) doesn't calm the fears, in effect making them much worse over time.

MEH, that's exactly what a vet once told me.

[Guest lavendergirl]

I don't purport to know more than this Dr does, and steer clear of Ace because I have heard these reports from lay people, but in practical application Ace seems to work fairly well in a lot of cases. Do you know of any other sources supporting this position that don't reference the above posted source?

Overall is a very big name in small animal behavioural pharmacology so it would be hard to find a paper that didn't cite her work, but here are some references I've found that are available on the internet:

http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings.plx?CID=WSAVA2007&Category=&PID=18202&O=Generic

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.2044-3862.2008.tb00529.x/abstract

This one refers to air-transport, the basic message is the same, the dog is sedated but still shows the physiological signs of anxiety:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12146895

Aiden these are excellent articles relating to noise phobia pharmacology - do you have any similar links dealing with separation anxiety?

At this stage I think it's a case of trialling modern anxiolytics to see which one works best for your dog, and a lot of vets seem to be fairly well informed on those and the trial periods to employ. Which behaviour modification strategy to use is more contentious, with very little empirical support for some of the frequently suggested strategies. It's something I refer to veterinary behaviourists, so I'm not very up to date on this, sorry.

OK thanks - I have not found the behaviour modification strategies recommended by behaviourists effective at all. Its either the medication or the collar now.

[Aidan3]

At this stage I think it's a case of trialling modern anxiolytics to see which one works best for your dog, and a lot of vets seem to be fairly well informed on those and the trial periods to employ. Which behaviour modification strategy to use is more contentious, with very little empirical support for some of the frequently suggested strategies. It's something I refer to veterinary behaviourists, so I'm not very up to date on this, sorry.

OK thanks - I have not found the behaviour modification strategies recommended by behaviourists effective at all. Its either the medication or the collar now.

Meds and DAP both have a good track record for separation anxiety. It's not a nice problem to treat, but there are options at least. Good luck with it.