asal Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Also did anyone else notice the strange head bob one of the black pups was doing?? certainly did and was wondering whats causing that? it was moving its eyes very strangly too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) and honestly take a cement shake some of you. friend used a very good dog of her breed. multi champion and all that. only to discover when she had her pups tested every one of them had one gene for pra. magnificant pups. magnificant sire, his owner is pretty ancient and didnt even know there was a test for pra. and he meant it. so for goodness sake belt up on the crap that only puppy farms have deletrious genes. some of the best dogs ive drooled over have a pra B score. are u supposed to always throw the baby out with the bathwater and i gather there are two breeds involved to boot ie Lab and retriever.... surely anyone with half a brain would be totally believing the garden gnome and this litter would have to be perfect........hybrid vigour and all that surely? shit happens even in reputable breeders dogs genes. this attributing anything wrong solely to 'PUPPY FARMERS' is you are forgetting when one does show up and you bred it... its just LABLED YOU a puppy farmer if you really do believe that....(well to me) crapola. Edited February 21, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janba Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Guide dogs vic have all of their breeding dogs and potential workibg dogs eye screened prior to breeding/working. Physical eye screening doesn't pickup carriers of recessive diseases it only picks up affected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Souff Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 and honestly take a cement shake some of you. Interesting turn of phrase, Asal :laugh: Cataracts can happen in even the best lines where the problem has not been seen before and has apparently been recorded in more than 75 breeds of dog, so why would crossbred dogs be immune? There is also the problem of feeding puppies with artificial milk formulae. Not enough has ever been said about this - for commercial reasons I suspect. An ingredient called arginine is the devil, and I am not too sure whether it is too little or too much arginine that is the problem, but this has definitely been linked with juvenile cataracts that can affect any breed of pup, and also kittens. Some say that formulas are now improved, but I remain of the opinion that no pup should be given formula unless there is no natural mothers milk available in the first few weeks. Imho, pups should not be given formulae after 4 weeks - there are plenty of calcium-rich natural foods and puppy foods that can be given at that age. No pup should be given milk once it is weaned. In the wild, once an animal is weaned it must drink from the pond or the creek. Souff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Guide dogs vic have all of their breeding dogs and potential workibg dogs eye screened prior to breeding/working. Physical eye screening doesn't pickup carriers of recessive diseases it only picks up affected. and honestly take a cement shake some of you. Interesting turn of phrase, Asal :laugh: Cataracts can happen in even the best lines where the problem has not been seen before and has apparently been recorded in more than 75 breeds of dog, so why would crossbred dogs be immune? Souff And this is why we screen (eye test) both parents annually AND eye test the whole litter at six weeks, cross our fingers, turn three times anti clockwise and hope for the best. It can happen to anyone. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Guide dogs breed their own dogs. There is a DNA test for hereditary cataracts, not sure about congenital. I'd guess there is no genetic test, and it would be good to have more information from the vet opthamologist . . . not filtered by a journalist . . .to make any pronouncement about what happened here. I did do some research regarding testing but everything goes out the window when you start dealing with 'Labtrevers'....... What goes out the window? Golden x Labradors can be CERF'd. See http://www.vmdb.org/hybridinfo.html With respect to genetic testing for hereditary eye disease, Labs and Goldies both get tested for cPRA . . . same test . . . same gene . . . but PRA isn't a cataract and doesn't show up in neonates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 and honestly take a cement shake some of you. Interesting turn of phrase, Asal :laugh: Cataracts can happen in even the best lines where the problem has not been seen before and has apparently been recorded in more than 75 breeds of dog, so why would crossbred dogs be immune? There is also the problem of feeding puppies with artificial milk formulae. Not enough has ever been said about this - for commercial reasons I suspect. An ingredient called arginine is the devil, and I am not too sure whether it is too little or too much arginine that is the problem, but this has definitely been linked with juvenile cataracts that can affect any breed of pup, and also kittens. Some say that formulas are now improved, but I remain of the opinion that no pup should be given formula unless there is no natural mothers milk available in the first few weeks. Imho, pups should not be given formulae after 4 weeks - there are plenty of calcium-rich natural foods and puppy foods that can be given at that age. No pup should be given milk once it is weaned. In the wild, once an animal is weaned it must drink from the pond or the creek. Souff cant take the credit my friend niky says to anyone who cant cope,,, here have a cement shake and I lend u my flame suit. laughed my head off the first time i heard it...but soo accurate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 it's odd they're all blind. What are the chances of the entire litter having congenital cataracts. As for being bred for guide dogs, since when did they outsource to random backyard breeders? As for donations, I'm a little suss on that. A wedding and just purchased a 30 acre property ... and asking for every cent from everyone else? You breed it you look after it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 it's odd they're all blind. What are the chances of the entire litter having congenital cataracts. As for being bred for guide dogs, since when did they outsource to random backyard breeders? As for donations, I'm a little suss on that. A wedding and just purchased a 30 acre property ... and asking for every cent from everyone else? You breed it you look after it. probably as much as a same sex litter. and yes i had the same thought... u bred them you take care of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Is there anything on msn.com that isn't sus? Maybe the story was written by a computer program that knows what gets an emotional response. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 what so many do not seem to understand that percentages only work when you are dealing with numbers...large numbers the bigger the better before they even out to what the charts tell you can happen. every conception a a new throw of the same dice i had a pair of show rex rabbits. they were both agouti but they both had one parent blue the other parent chocolate so because neither of their parents carried the other recessive they all turned out agouti. put two of the agouti's (n no different parents for the inbreeding terrorists) produced 4 lilac agouti rex... stunning forget the table the chances of one was either 16% or 32% which are long odds in any book so anyone who saw that litter could be tempted to think hey repeat that for another lot.. with the same result. except in actuality you can expect over the full numbers, for every one lilic you would have 16 to 32 not being lilac, thats an awful lot of bunnies not the colour you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asal Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 (edited) when you turn it round and the odds of a blind puppy for example is only 1 in 16 to 32 puppies.. you can still like that litter of all lilic's get the whole shebang in one hit... breed 100, from the parents, better 200 and the number of normals will be correct to the number of blind. but who wants to play that game what so few get their heads around, percentages are a numbers game... nature doesnt play by the rules in small numbers. Edited February 25, 2012 by asal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I know there is that one in a million chance of getting a whole litter dealt a bad hand, I just don't understand why it's now the worlds responsibility to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Exactly Nek!! But when you breed untested dogs together, this is the risk you take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 I know there is that one in a million chance of getting a whole litter dealt a bad hand, I just don't understand why it's now the worlds responsibility to pay for it. Yes, and you can tell from the story that everyone who has taken on a puppy in the belief that funds will be raised for the operation needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yes, and you can tell from the story that everyone who has taken on a puppy in the belief that funds will be raised for the operation needed. Again ... passing the buck ... let's take on an animal with a major problem and expect the fairys to come fix it and all the costly aftercare it will need!! If not, oh well we'll just let the animal potter on and do nothing about it. I don't expect much more from Frankston. And we don't know why the vet actually said to put them to sleep, for all we know there are bigger problems then being let on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yes, and you can tell from the story that everyone who has taken on a puppy in the belief that funds will be raised for the operation needed. Again ... passing the buck ... let's take on an animal with a major problem and expect the fairys to come fix it and all the costly aftercare it will need!! If not, oh well we'll just let the animal potter on and do nothing about it. I don't expect much more from Frankston. And we don't know why the vet actually said to put them to sleep, for all we know there are bigger problems then being let on. The strange thing is just putting a story like that on TV will bring out the people with $$$ who would not even think to donate to a shelter or such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StaffordLUV Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 and because they wont be paying for the operations themselves, the new owners will discard these puppies when it all get to hard or the operations dont work 100%. Raising a puppy with a disability such as this is freakin hard work and while the people might think "oh well if i dont take them they will be put down" maybe that is the kindest and correct thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 25, 2012 Share Posted February 25, 2012 Yes, and you can tell from the story that everyone who has taken on a puppy in the belief that funds will be raised for the operation needed. Again ... passing the buck ... let's take on an animal with a major problem and expect the fairys to come fix it and all the costly aftercare it will need!! If not, oh well we'll just let the animal potter on and do nothing about it. I don't expect much more from Frankston. And we don't know why the vet actually said to put them to sleep, for all we know there are bigger problems then being let on. The strange thing is just putting a story like that on TV will bring out the people with $$ who would not even think to donate to a shelter or such. It also brings in advertisers. Just like a soap opera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now