Tricky Scenario At The Park

[grumpette]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

A couple of years ago OH and I were looking at display homes. There was a young family ahead of us as we walked from house to house, three kids under 6 with one in a harness aged 3 years. The one in the harness kept trampling on the gardens, knocking things over and generally running riot. As they were approaching another house and the child was rushing through the door, all I wanted to do was grab the lead off the father and give the kid a bloody good correction. Just as I was about to articulate this to the OH, the father pulled on the lead and told the child firmly NO. He behaved like an angel for the next 10 minutes while they walked through that house.

[megan_]

I am astounded at the people who do not think it is completely reasonable to expect to be able to walk your dog without being physically attacked. If this hadn't been a child in the scenario but an adult I bet people would have been saying the OP should have charged him with assault.

Excellent point, Snook. Or if this had been an irresponsible owner letting their dog run around loose in a carpark and jump all over a frightened kid, people would be screaming for blood (as they should).

No one is saying that the parent was in the right and children should be allowed to pat all dogs. What some people pointed out is that these things happen and it is in your dogs best interest to prepare them for this.

[Dame Aussie]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

A couple of years ago OH and I were looking at display homes. There was a young family ahead of us as we walked from house to house, three kids under 6 with one in a harness aged 3 years. The one in the harness kept trampling on the gardens, knocking things over and generally running riot. As they were approaching another house and the child was rushing through the door, all I wanted to do was grab the lead off the father and give the kid a bloody good correction. Just as I was about to articulate this to the OH, the father pulled on the lead and told the child firmly NO. He behaved like an angel for the next 10 minutes while they walked through that house.

I was on a harness when I was a toddler as I would run off constantly. If I have kids I will be having them attached to me.

[raz]

No one is saying that the parent was in the right and children should be allowed to pat all dogs. What some people pointed out is that these things happen and it is in your dogs best interest to prepare them for this.

I know what people said. The parent/caretaker was totally in the wrong because she was completely blase about 1. the kid storming through a carpark unsupervised and 2. shoving the OP around when she tried to manage the situation, especially with an elderly dog on lead. Unacceptable on both counts. If the dog had bitten the kid in self defence, getting back to the legal question, and the parent had decided to crap on about the dog 'mauling' the kid in an unprovoked attack, without witnesses you've got one guess who would have worn the brunt of it. The same would have happened if the kid had been backed over by a car.

[sandgrubber]

If the dog had bitten the kid in self defence, getting back to the legal question, and the parent had decided to crap on about the dog 'mauling' the kid in an unprovoked attack, without witnesses you've got one guess who would have worn the brunt of it. The same would have happened if the kid had been backed over by a car.

Exactly. Biting dogs are not flavour of the month. That's why it's more useful to be prepared to do a bit of defensive dog walking than to worry who is at fault. The Law gives kids a much higher status than dogs. . . . and you cannot count on sympathy if your dog bites some stranger's kid. No more than you can count on sympathy if you hit a kid who runs out in front of your car.

btw, Kudos to the OP . .. who is absolutely right in calling it a Tricky Scenario. It is tricky. Unless you score high on psychopath tests, you should be able to feel sympathy for both the dog walker and the Mum. Good that this potential conflict got headed off.

Edited February 21, 2012 by sandgrubber

[raz]

Exactly. That's why it's more useful to be prepared to do a bit of defensive dog walking than to worry who is at fault.

The OP did take defensive action to protect her little old dog in the face of an aggressive child. Well done to her. She was obviously totally aware of her surroundings and prevented both her dog from being rough handled and the kid from being bitten or snapped at by a startled old dog.

[espinay2]

Bottom line - a stranger has approached the OP in a carpark and shoved them because the OP did not want the stranger touching something they own.

Regardless of anything else these are the base facts.

A person has the right to walk in public without being assaulted by a stranger.

Edited February 21, 2012 by espinay2

[jaybeece]

No, I can't guarantee that any one of my dogs wouldn't react if they were startled, but I TOTALLY accept that as a dog owner it is my responsiblity to protect others from my dogs.

I also accept that they are not and will never be as important as human beings. THEY ARE DOGS. They are a very important part of my life and our life to a large extent revolves around them, but THEY ARE DOGS.

If someone brings their children to my place and either the dogs or the children won't cope - guess what, the dogs are locked in the back yard, not the kids.

If my dogs bite a child then I take it on board that they should not have done or that I should have been looking/watching more closely.

YES, responsibility is one sided. I have exercised by right to have a dog, but in doing so I need to accept that I have responsibilities. While I might not like what others do to or around my dogs I can (and do) whinge all I like, but ultimately at the end of the day I have to be the one who keeps my dogs safe from others and others safe from them.

While it's great you take responsibility heavily for your dogs, others may not agree while still being responsible dog owners.

I'll do whatever I can to keep others safe from my dog, but at the end of the day if for example someone started assaulting him I can guarantee you I wouldn't be thinking about preventing the PERSON from being injured. Likewise my duty of care is not towards an offlead dog that's rushed up to my onlead dog when he doesn't cope well with that, that's the owner's job and I will always give fair warning that he's not friendly when approached like that.

My dog is not a child to me, but I am responsible for his wellbeing. I am not responsible for the wellbeing of complete strangers, their children or their dogs.

Edited February 21, 2012 by jaybeece

[Odin-Genie]

I also accept that they are not and will never be as important as human beings. THEY ARE DOGS. They are a very important part of my life and our life to a large extent revolves around them, but THEY ARE DOGS.

If someone brings their children to my place and either the dogs or the children won't cope - guess what, the dogs are locked in the back yard, not the kids.

My dogs are definitely more important to me than a strange human being, and I know with 100% certainty that if my dog was in a burning house and along with a strange child, I would save my dog first beacuse immaterial of whether they have any rights by law, to me my dogs are like adopted children.

And no, my dogs don't get locked away because of guests. If guests can't handle dogs, they are not invited to my house.

[Odin-Genie]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I was gonna write that raz but decided I would probably get flamed for it..

I dont care if they flame me for it, SL. I think it's incredibly irresponsible to let a kid run through a carpark to touch a stranger's dog, and when told No, do nothing when the kid rough handles the owner. How do we know the OP isnt a tiny little woman being pushed around by an adolescent teenager. All dogs have teeth and can bite when startled. All cars have wheels that can run over an out of control kid. I think it's really stupid and irresponsible of the parent/nanny/Aunt - whoever she was, and the posters saying we're all being insensitive. If that old little dog had been startled by the aggressive kid and turned around to defend itself, who would be the worse off today? The poor damn owner who was doing her best to try to contain the situation and as an earlier poster said, this thread would be in the news subforum in a sensational article about a kid getting 'mauled'.

I'm totally for the OP in this situation - not the caretaker who wasnt taking care and not the people who are having a boohoo about the comments.

Very well said.

[Red Fox]

A couple of years ago OH and I were looking at display homes. There was a young family ahead of us as we walked from house to house, three kids under 6 with one in a harness aged 3 years. The one in the harness kept trampling on the gardens, knocking things over and generally running riot. As they were approaching another house and the child was rushing through the door, all I wanted to do was grab the lead off the father and give the kid a bloody good correction. Just as I was about to articulate this to the OH, the father pulled on the lead and told the child firmly NO. He behaved like an angel for the next 10 minutes while they walked through that house.

Yeah I would have too!

[Diva]

Sorry but in my world my dogs (ie my family) are more important then some random persons child. I make sure they are safe and don't harm anyone and it's for the parent to care their child not me.

This sums up my position too.

Polite children are more than welcome to interact with my dogs.

Rough children are not.

I tell them so in a manner appropriate to their age, if they listen and modify their behaviour they get praised, and if they don't listen I'll physically intervene as necessary.

My dogs are highly unlikely to react aggressively to a child treating them badly.

But I sure as hell would, and the child having a disability or developmental disorder would not stop me doing whatever it took to protect my dogs.

They are no-one's 'toys' to maul.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Diva

[Staffyluv]

I am astounded at the people who do not think it is completely reasonable to expect to be able to walk your dog without being physically attacked. If this hadn't been a child in the scenario but an adult I bet people would have been saying the OP should have charged him with assault.

Excellent point, Snook. Or if this had been an irresponsible owner letting their dog run around loose in a carpark and jump all over a frightened kid, people would be screaming for blood (as they should).

No one is saying that the parent was in the right and children should be allowed to pat all dogs. What some people pointed out is that these things happen and it is in your dogs best interest to prepare them for this.

I know what you mean but it is nigh impossible to prepare a blind/deaf elderly dog for the rush of kiddy pats.

Some things can be prepared for and some can't.

[rubiton]

So dogs need to be prepared of some kids stands in front blocking the way then lunges at them shouting BOOO. Yes I had a kid do this to me and my dog - kids chest was my dogs head height. Stupid mother was 3m away talking to her friend - was going to have a go but couldnt bothered since there was two of them there chatting. My dog just propped and looked at me with a 'WTF' look as we went around the future headliner kid.

Another time one walked onto the path from its front yard to pat the dog as we went past - where is all the stuff they were teaching not so long ago on how kids should behave around dogs?

[MsKatie]

And this is why we book Delta dog safe for our school every year.

[sandgrubber]

So dogs need to be prepared of some kids stands in front blocking the way then lunges at them shouting BOOO. Yes I had a kid do this to me and my dog - kids chest was my dogs head height. Stupid mother was 3m away talking to her friend - was going to have a go but couldnt bothered since there was two of them there chatting. My dog just propped and looked at me with a 'WTF' look as we went around the future headliner kid.

Another time one walked onto the path from its front yard to pat the dog as we went past - where is all the stuff they were teaching not so long ago on how kids should behave around dogs?

Not at all. Owners need to be prepared to things that don't go to script. If your dog is likely to use its teeth, be prepared to reign it in, and understand that you may end out in deep yoghurt if it bites a kid . . . even if the kid is a bit wacko and the Mum isn't being responsible at the moment. Kids outrank dogs when it comes to law. It's fine to swear at irresponsible Mums and out-of-control kids (both pretty common, sigh). Swear away. But you don't want to end out in court after your dog has chewed up someone's little darling. In law, dogs are property. Humans have rights that are protected by law.

[huski]

My dogs are definitely more important to me than a strange human being, and I know with 100% certainty that if my dog was in a burning house and along with a strange child, I would save my dog first beacuse immaterial of whether they have any rights by law, to me my dogs are like adopted children.

And no, my dogs don't get locked away because of guests. If guests can't handle dogs, they are not invited to my house.

To be honest I find this shocking. You would really save your dogs over the life of a child? I love my dogs, they mean everything to me, but I couldn’t place their lives as more important than that of a child.

I have people over to my house that aren’t into dogs like I am, obviously coming to my house they know I will have dogs there but I also expect my dogs to behave around people and I would think nothing of putting them away if I had a guest that was uncomfortable with them or if I had kids there that weren’t used to dogs or weren’t capable of behaving appropriately around them. My dogs don’t care if someone doesn’t like them or isn’t comfortable around them. I had a friend stay with a puppy just last week, my big dog isn’t reliable with puppies so I put him away while puppy was there.

My dogs are a huge part of my life, but they don’t rule my life.

[Tassie]

And this is why we book Delta dog safe for our school every year.

(I'm a Delta DogSafe presenter - love doing it :D

[kitkatswing]

My dogs are definitely more important to me than a strange human being, and I know with 100% certainty that if my dog was in a burning house and along with a strange child, I would save my dog first beacuse immaterial of whether they have any rights by law, to me my dogs are like adopted children.

And no, my dogs don't get locked away because of guests. If guests can't handle dogs, they are not invited to my house.

To be honest I find this shocking. You would really save your dogs over the life of a child? I love my dogs, they mean everything to me, but I couldn’t place their lives as more important than that of a child.

My dogs are a huge part of my life, but they don’t rule my life.

I would be the same, choice of my dogs life or a stranger. I would go my dog, he is my family and means the world to me.

[megan_]

My dogs are definitely more important to me than a strange human being, and I know with 100% certainty that if my dog was in a burning house and along with a strange child, I would save my dog first beacuse immaterial of whether they have any rights by law, to me my dogs are like adopted children.

And no, my dogs don't get locked away because of guests. If guests can't handle dogs, they are not invited to my house.

To be honest I find this shocking. You would really save your dogs over the life of a child? I love my dogs, they mean everything to me, but I couldn’t place their lives as more important than that of a child.

I have people over to my house that aren’t into dogs like I am, obviously coming to my house they know I will have dogs there but I also expect my dogs to behave around people and I would think nothing of putting them away if I had a guest that was uncomfortable with them or if I had kids there that weren’t used to dogs or weren’t capable of behaving appropriately around them. My dogs don’t care if someone doesn’t like them or isn’t comfortable around them. I had a friend stay with a puppy just last week, my big dog isn’t reliable with puppies so I put him away while puppy was there.

My dogs are a huge part of my life, but they don’t rule my life.

I agree. I feel sorry for people who seem to hate their fellow humans so much (not saying that OG does, but every time this topic comes up the sheer vitriol astounds me).

One of my dogs is fear aggressive, I certainly don't let her attack guests just because they are coming to her home. She gets put away in her crate, which she loves, and they can relax and be safe.

I always ask guests if they are comfortable with my boy, and he'd go outside or in his crate if they weren't. It is my house and the guests are there to visit me. That said, Fergus has great manners and no one has ever asked for him to be put away.