Tricky Scenario At The Park

[Bluefairy]

As a mother of an Autistic child, now 22, I'll give my 2 cents worth. My daughter was never afraid of anything as a child, she would climb on the roof in a heart beat, run out the front door in a flash, go missing for hours (I eventually got special locks and alarms for all exits to stop her), had no road sense at all, is totally unaware of stranger danger, loves everyone and everything....

Unless I harnessed her to me, she would escape from me many times, and on one occasion she ran straight up to a Great Dane with his owner and grabbed him around the neck to hug him (the dog not the owner). I was horrified, as I didn't know the dog, the dogs owner was taken aback, but the dog was licking her and just sitting there. I am so grateful the owner didn't yell at my daughter (then aged about 6), he just had this big smile on his face....I couldn't say sorry enough, the owner said most people are afraid of such a huge dog, that it was nice to see a child so eager to hug.

Please don't blame the mother totally, though I would have been shocked if my daughter had done what this child had done, and as the mother I would have said sorry. But its not the childs fault they don't feel fear, most Autistic children have tunnel vision, they see it they want it and its hard to steer them away.

I'm sorry you were treated that way, I would never have done this, but its hard raising an Autistic child.

Lynn

[Fit for a King]

People's attitude really astounds me at times - recently a woman bought a young child into the dog park (without a dog) and just let her wander around patting the dogs while she talked on the phone. Entertainment for the child I suppose - until it goes horribly wrong - luckily it did not that day.

That is one of many reasons I don't use off leash parks....it used to be a common occurrence at a park in East Brisbane.....a family would wait until people brought their dogs down in the afternoon then walk up and dump their kids over the fence and wander off to sit a few hundred metres away to smoke and drink. We were supposed to be watchful of their brats who would run around screaming, chasing dogs, grabbing tails and ears and causing chaos.....within 5 minutes the place would empty of dogs and the kids would be throwing tantrums that their toys had gone....it didn't matter how many times we spoke to the parents they would tell us to "f off" as it was their "right" to be there.....many of us left that particular park - it simply wasn't worth the aggrevation......after a few more scary occurrences at off leash parks I simply stopped using them.

It is my right to determine who touches my dogs and who doesn't....just like a normal parent wouldn't like one of their children being manhandled by a complete stranger I don't like my dogs being touched without permission.....

Edited February 20, 2012 by Fit for a King

[Agility Dogs]

As a mother of an Autistic child, now 22, I'll give my 2 cents worth. My daughter was never afraid of anything as a child, she would climb on the roof in a heart beat, run out the front door in a flash, go missing for hours (I eventually got special locks and alarms for all exits to stop her), had no road sense at all, is totally unaware of stranger danger, loves everyone and everything....

Unless I harnessed her to me, she would escape from me many times, and on one occasion she ran straight up to a Great Dane with his owner and grabbed him around the neck to hug him (the dog not the owner). I was horrified, as I didn't know the dog, the dogs owner was taken aback, but the dog was licking her and just sitting there. I am so grateful the owner didn't yell at my daughter (then aged about 6), he just had this big smile on his face....I couldn't say sorry enough, the owner said most people are afraid of such a huge dog, that it was nice to see a child so eager to hug.

Please don't blame the mother totally, though I would have been shocked if my daughter had done what this child had done, and as the mother I would have said sorry. But its not the childs fault they don't feel fear, most Autistic children have tunnel vision, they see it they want it and its hard to steer them away.

I'm sorry you were treated that way, I would never have done this, but its hard raising an Autistic child.

Lynn

I agree, it is incredibly hard and I'm fortunate that I only see it from the relatively safe distance of an Uncle.

What I find absolutely amazing in all of this is that it appears quite OK for this forum to diagnose a child as autistic from the scant details in the intial post and then judge the parent/carer accordingly. On the other hand if anyone dares to make a suggestion about animal behaviour without the benefit of a behavioural consult it seems that the sky is about to fall.

I think a lot of members on this forum need a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for people - they are not all bad.

I can understand the OP's perspective and would have felt similarly, but I think some of the comments in this thread show a complete lack of understanding.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Agility Dogs

[Jumabaar]

As a mother of an Autistic child, now 22, I'll give my 2 cents worth. My daughter was never afraid of anything as a child, she would climb on the roof in a heart beat, run out the front door in a flash, go missing for hours (I eventually got special locks and alarms for all exits to stop her), had no road sense at all, is totally unaware of stranger danger, loves everyone and everything....

Unless I harnessed her to me, she would escape from me many times, and on one occasion she ran straight up to a Great Dane with his owner and grabbed him around the neck to hug him (the dog not the owner). I was horrified, as I didn't know the dog, the dogs owner was taken aback, but the dog was licking her and just sitting there. I am so grateful the owner didn't yell at my daughter (then aged about 6), he just had this big smile on his face....I couldn't say sorry enough, the owner said most people are afraid of such a huge dog, that it was nice to see a child so eager to hug.

Please don't blame the mother totally, though I would have been shocked if my daughter had done what this child had done, and as the mother I would have said sorry. But its not the childs fault they don't feel fear, most Autistic children have tunnel vision, they see it they want it and its hard to steer them away.

I'm sorry you were treated that way, I would never have done this, but its hard raising an Autistic child.

Lynn

I agree, it is incredibly hard and I'm fortunate that I only see it from the relatively safe distance of an Uncle.

What I find absolutely amazing in all of this is that it appears quite OK for this forum to diagnose a child as autistic from the scant details in the intial post and then judge the parent/carer accordingly. On the other hand if anyone dares to make a suggestion about animal behaviour without the benefit of a behavioural consult it seems that the sky is about to fall.

I think a lot of members on this forum need a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for people - they are not all bad.

I can understand the OP's perspective and would have felt similarly, but I think some of the comments in this thread show a complete lack of understanding.

I only judge the parent/carer for not coming over once it became apparent that the OP didnt want the child near the dog. I believe its my responsibility to stop anyone approaching my dog so the initial greeting from the child is neither here nor there. I have a dog who is scared of adults (thankfully not kids although I still dont let him interact with them) but he can cope with people running/walking toward me- its only the patting he cant deal with. So if children approach you pop the dog behind you and body block the child. At this point I expect the adult responsible for the child to come and help me make the interaction safe. I dont allow any child to interact with my dogs without a guardian there. To me the childs status is irrelevant the guardian should have gone into damage control.

It is quite clear that Lynn would have been over like jack flash to take control of the situation had it been her own child but thats not what the OP described.

Edited February 20, 2012 by Jumabaar

[haven]

I don't understand the assumption that the child was disabled or that he was on the Autism spectrum, was there something other than what you put in your OP that made you think this or was it just that the kid didn't listen to you and shoved you? I have had more than your average persons experience with Autistic kids (including family members) and I can tell you that none of them would have behaved like this, but I certainly do know a few kids that are just poorly parented who might.

[raz]

I think a lot of members on this forum need a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for people - they are not all bad.

How about a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for the OP. She was minding her own business walking her on lead dog through A CARPARK when an unsupervised kid put her old, blind and deaf dog at risk, then started shoving her around because she asked him not to touch the dog. Where was the parental or carer supervision when this happened - too far behind if the kid had been bitten or run over by someone backing out of a parking bay.

[Crisovar]

When you are a parent you take on huge responsibilities, one of them is to keep your child safe, regardless of any condition or disability that child may have, and yes I understand it is not easy.

In this case we do not know if the child in question was indeed Autistic, if it wasn't it sounds like it needs a good kick up the bum. Regardless, the child should not have been running free in a carpark where it could easily have been injured or killed.

Of course we all know if the dog had snapped at the child it would have the dogs owners fault in the eyes of most, that is the way of todays cast blame society.

Personally I think having the dog leashed and by your side should be accepted as reasonable control.

[Staffyluv]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I was gonna write that raz but decided I would probably get flamed for it..

[Greytmate]

I would take my dog and run away if a child was touching me or doing the wrong thing to my dog.

Tempting as it would be to smack the child away, yell at it to frighten it away, or yell at its inattentive parent, for me it's safety first. Last thing I want to do is get in a fight with some bogans on the street or in a park.

[sandgrubber]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I'm sure some 'bloody parents' have thought in their darker moments that they'd like their kids PTS. But that would carry a murder charge. And you never know what psychiatrist is advising them to allow the kid to venture out and make a few mistakes . . . as a necessary part of coming to live a semi-independent life.

Your dog is simply a possession with no rights . . . you are entitled to do some fairly extreme things to keep it in control, and to have it pts if it proves uncontrollable. Or are you a believer in animal rights?

I think people need to think less about blame and more about solutions.

My heart goes out to a Mum who has 24/7 duties to take care of a kid with autism or other serious disability. I'd go stark raving mad . . . or take to the bottle in a serious way. If you have a dog that is likely to bite, how about accepting that the perfect parent has yet to be found and some people are less in control of their kids than you would like. Sometimes you have to do a bit of defensive dog walking. So?

[Agility Dogs]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I was gonna write that raz but decided I would probably get flamed for it..

Incredibly insensitive to someone who has a child that needs to be kept under lock and key 24/7.

Don't get me wrong, I think the person responsible for the child in the OP's post was totally wrong and should have handled the situation differently. However, some of the comments like this one could be very hurtful to people who do their best in very difficult situations.

[megan_]

Yip - bad things happen to good parents too. Maybe this mother was too blase, but I have a second cousin with autism who has a very good mother but sometimes things go wrong anyway.

As dog owners we need to have an action plan for when things go wrong, because this story is very similar to the ones we can all tell. We need to be on the lookout for who is approaching from where and take action accordingly.

I would have walked off quickly when I saw the child focusing on my dog (if I was with my girl). IF they snuck up on me I would body block them from my dog (and practice body blocking at home so the dog thinks it is a game and doesn't panic). I would have called to the mother (again, practiced at home, even though there is no mother there!): "please stop your child now. This dog has been abused by children and doesn't like them" or something similar - something, anything to get her to take action.

[Crisovar]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I'm sure some 'bloody parents' have thought in their darker moments that they'd like their kids PTS. But that would carry a murder charge. And you never know what psychiatrist is advising them to allow the kid to venture out and make a few mistakes . . . as a necessary part of coming to live a semi-independent life.

Your dog is simply a possession with no rights . . . you are entitled to do some fairly extreme things to keep it in control, and to have it pts if it proves uncontrollable. Or are you a believer in animal rights?

I think people need to think less about blame and more about solutions.

My heart goes out to a Mum who has 24/7 duties to take care of a kid with autism or other serious disability. I'd go stark raving mad . . . or take to the bottle in a serious way. If you have a dog that is likely to bite, how about accepting that the perfect parent has yet to be found and some people are less in control of their kids than you would like. Sometimes you have to do a bit of defensive dog walking. So?

You know there is always a first time...wtf do you do if your dog has never been put in a situation that pushes its boundaries to the limit. Can you guarantee that any one of your dogs is not capable of being startled???

I am sure we all do the very best we can, but it appears that if you are a dog owner the responsibilities are pretty damn one sided.

The only Solution that would suit some is for all dogs to be kept under lock and key.

[raz]

How about bloody parents keep their uncontrollable children on lead.

I think I just fell in love with you for this comment.

I was gonna write that raz but decided I would probably get flamed for it..

I dont care if they flame me for it, SL. I think it's incredibly irresponsible to let a kid run through a carpark to touch a stranger's dog, and when told No, do nothing when the kid rough handles the owner. How do we know the OP isnt a tiny little woman being pushed around by an adolescent teenager. All dogs have teeth and can bite when startled. All cars have wheels that can run over an out of control kid. I think it's really stupid and irresponsible of the parent/nanny/Aunt - whoever she was, and the posters saying we're all being insensitive. If that old little dog had been startled by the aggressive kid and turned around to defend itself, who would be the worse off today? The poor damn owner who was doing her best to try to contain the situation and as an earlier poster said, this thread would be in the news subforum in a sensational article about a kid getting 'mauled'.

I'm totally for the OP in this situation - not the caretaker who wasnt taking care and not the people who are having a boohoo about the comments.

[Agility Dogs]

You know there is always a first time...wtf do you do if your dog has never been put in a situation that pushes its boundaries to the limit. Can you guarantee that any one of your dogs is not capable of being startled???

I am sure we all do the very best we can, but it appears that if you are a dog owner the responsibilities are pretty damn one sided.

The only Solution that would suit some is for all dogs to be kept under lock and key.

No, I can't guarantee that any one of my dogs wouldn't react if they were startled, but I TOTALLY accept that as a dog owner it is my responsiblity to protect others from my dogs.

I also accept that they are not and will never be as important as human beings. THEY ARE DOGS. They are a very important part of my life and our life to a large extent revolves around them, but THEY ARE DOGS.

If someone brings their children to my place and either the dogs or the children won't cope - guess what, the dogs are locked in the back yard, not the kids.

If my dogs bite a child then I take it on board that they should not have done or that I should have been looking/watching more closely.

YES, responsibility is one sided. I have exercised by right to have a dog, but in doing so I need to accept that I have responsibilities. While I might not like what others do to or around my dogs I can (and do) whinge all I like, but ultimately at the end of the day I have to be the one who keeps my dogs safe from others and others safe from them.

[Dame Aussie]

I think a lot of members on this forum need a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for people - they are not all bad.

How about a good dose of perspective, reality and compassion for the OP. She was minding her own business walking her on lead dog through A CARPARK when an unsupervised kid put her old, blind and deaf dog at risk, then started shoving her around because she asked him not to touch the dog. Where was the parental or carer supervision when this happened - too far behind if the kid had been bitten or run over by someone backing out of a parking bay.

Exactly. I'm sorry but it is not acceptable to allow your child, disabled or not, to repeatedly SHOVE a complete stranger.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Aussie3

[megan_]

You know there is always a first time...wtf do you do if your dog has never been put in a situation that pushes its boundaries to the limit. Can you guarantee that any one of your dogs is not capable of being startled???

I am sure we all do the very best we can, but it appears that if you are a dog owner the responsibilities are pretty damn one sided.

The only Solution that would suit some is for all dogs to be kept under lock and key.

You test your dogs limits. You teach it games like "look at that" so that it has a coping mechanism for these situations (most people think that these things are only for reactive dogs, they're not). You "teach" your dog a body block at home. You talk in a stern voice "get your chiild/dog away from me now" at home when practicing this so your dog is used to the situation. You then reward them for remaining calm.

I agree with Agility Dogs. I wish every parent would control their child 100% and I wish every dog owner would control their dog too, but it isn't going to happen in my lifetime so I'll do my best to give my dogs the skills to cope with life. One does a lot better than the other, so my girl has a muzzle, and when it isn't on she is walked when there is no one around.

Don't wait for a "real life" test for how your dog will cope, give them the skills today :).

[Whippetsmum]

The OP made it clear that hers was a non expert opinion that perhaps the child had autism, and did so in a non judgemental way- she tried to make sense of a confusing and frightening situation.

It would have been scary that the child's behaviour was escalating and the accompanying adult didn't intervene, her words were that the boy was angry and shoving her- unacceptable behaviour from the child and the accompanying adult, whatever the background of the child.

I don't think anyone has really addressed the original questions of the legal implications, and to keep on track, is there any thing else she could have done.

The OP did what seemed reasonable for most children of the apparent age, told the child: no/stop. The accomplanying adult would have had a better chance of knowing how to handle the situation, as they were more familiar with the child than the OP, unfortunately they were too far away.

[Bjelkier]

You know there is always a first time...wtf do you do if your dog has never been put in a situation that pushes its boundaries to the limit. Can you guarantee that any one of your dogs is not capable of being startled???

I am sure we all do the very best we can, but it appears that if you are a dog owner the responsibilities are pretty damn one sided.

The only Solution that would suit some is for all dogs to be kept under lock and key.

No, I can't guarantee that any one of my dogs wouldn't react if they were startled, but I TOTALLY accept that as a dog owner it is my responsiblity to protect others from my dogs.

I also accept that they are not and will never be as important as human beings. THEY ARE DOGS. They are a very important part of my life and our life to a large extent revolves around them, but THEY ARE DOGS.

If someone brings their children to my place and either the dogs or the children won't cope - guess what, the dogs are locked in the back yard, not the kids.

If my dogs bite a child then I take it on board that they should not have done or that I should have been looking/watching more closely.

YES, responsibility is one sided. I have exercised by right to have a dog, but in doing so I need to accept that I have responsibilities. While I might not like what others do to or around my dogs I can (and do) whinge all I like, but ultimately at the end of the day I have to be the one who keeps my dogs safe from others and others safe from them.

Sorry but in my world my dogs (ie my family) are more important then some random persons child. I make sure they are safe and don't harm anyone and it's for the parent to care their child not me.

I didn't choose to have a child, they did, it's their job to look after the child and not to expect everyone else out there to do the parents job for them!

Edited February 21, 2012 by Bjelkier

[raz]

I am astounded at the people who do not think it is completely reasonable to expect to be able to walk your dog without being physically attacked. If this hadn't been a child in the scenario but an adult I bet people would have been saying the OP should have charged him with assault.

Excellent point, Snook. Or if this had been an irresponsible owner letting their dog run around loose in a carpark and jump all over a frightened kid, people would be screaming for blood (as they should).