ElleAus Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi all, Just interested in how other people would have handled this scenario and what the legal implications would be. I'll try keep it brief. Crossing the carpark at my local park (not near other dogs) a boy (adolescent size but in primary school gear) sees me and my dogs and heads towards us leaving his mother (?) and dog. I keep walking assuming she'll call him to come back. He catches up to me and reaches toward my small old dog who is on lead. I say 'don't touch that one' (blunt but he caught me by surprise and was right over the dog.) He wouldn't listen and got angry, kept shoving me and trying to get to the dog with determination. I kept telling him not to. I called to the mother the dog isn't friendly. She's slowly coming and asking him what he thinks he's doing. I pick up small dog and keep moving. Eventually I hear him call out "sorry". So in my non-expert opinion he had autism. I wish i'd asked if she knew how easy it would be for him to get hurt. No harm done but I'm imagining the scenario with future dogs and wondering about the outcome given his size and the fact he was physically going after me. Not sure if i should have tried to distract him with questions or what would have helped. Felt like I needed to share this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Whether or not he is autistic that is not acceptable behaviour and you're right he could get hurt. I would have thought if he was autistic or had any other type of issue his mother would have been over in a flash...but you can't judge people by your own standards all the time can you. Glad to hear it didn't get messy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mumof4girls Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I guess with children vigilance is the key, he could have just been a child that has no discipline and gets what he wants, oh my goodness I see a lot of them quite rude.. Glad his mother eventually came over... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) I had a similar situation when I was sitting at the school shelter recently waiting for my daughter and a mother and pre-schooler came by. The pretty little girl, about 4 I guess, flashed me a beautiful, angelic smile and walked up to me. I said "Hello" and the child then punched me, quite hard in the lower stomach area. The shock was probably worse than the punch. The mother walked past and the child turned to follow, I said, "I think you should say sorry" and the mother turned around and said "Oh, she doesn't talk". Well I was taken aback and realise the child must be autistic. Then I got angry and was about to yell out to the mother but she quickly looked over her shoulder and called out "Sorry". I was pretty pissed off at this mother for letting her child walk so far ahead of her she couldn't be there to control her or at least warm me. This child will only be getting bigger and stronger! I have known people with Autistic kids over the years. Some are now adults but have never had any of them thump me. I was just glad I didn't have my puppy on my lap that day. Edited February 20, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty&biscuit Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Glad no one got hurt here, with children with autism, or in fact any child at all, the mother really should have at least ran after him. I understand having an autistic child must be hard and th parents just want a break, but dog and/or child could've been hurt here And same applies to th post above me, that's disgraceful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kajtek Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) My dogs are my kids. I will step forward and take whatever action is necessary to protect them. Always. Edited February 20, 2012 by HonBun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippetsmum Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Diabled kid vs cute puppy....oh dear, no winners, press would have a field day if something happened. I think the main issue is parents not controlling their kids to an adequate level for their child's age and ability in order to prevent harm. Basic commands sometimes work best with kids, especially when it's urgent, none of that "dear the puppy doesn't like it, I've told you before, don't you remember?".....Stop! (with a hand signal) No! with a head shake. Just like puppy training, if a lot of words aren't getting through, use simple direct language, tone of voice is the most important thing though. I'm not saying kids are dogs, but I tend to use some hand signals naturally with kids that I have picked up at dog training, "stop", "sit", stay, "wait", and "look" cross over nicley. I use the finished sign with my dogs, I learned this working with kids so it works both ways. Some people may call it non verbal communication, body language etc, some people use signing with their dogs, and some of these kids also learn signing to communicate as an alternatove to speech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Parents should be in control of their children (disability or not)... I realise sometimes it is difficult but honestly it would have been the parents fault if anything had happened to the child... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Parents should be in control of their children (disability or not)... I realise sometimes it is difficult but honestly it would have been the parents fault if anything had happened to the child... Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymatejack Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 if your dog is aggressive IT IS YOUR responsibility to stop it attacking anyone or anything. I'm so sick of reading people who suggest it is the responsibility of others to keep their dogs(or in this case child) away from your dogs in a public area, even worse if its an offlead area. Start taking responsibility for your lack of training and socialisation and keep others safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 if your dog is aggressive IT IS YOUR responsibility to stop it attacking anyone or anything. I'm so sick of reading people who suggest it is the responsibility of others to keep their dogs(or in this case child) away from your dogs in a public area, even worse if its an offlead area. Start taking responsibility for your lack of training and socialisation and keep others safe. And I'm sick of people making excuses for their childrens and their own bad behaviour and lack of manners. Just because a dog is out in public does not give another person the right to touch it. None of my Samoyeds are aggressive but if I don't want someone touching them it's my right to say no and excpet people to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymatejack Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 if your dog is aggressive IT IS YOUR responsibility to stop it attacking anyone or anything. I'm so sick of reading people who suggest it is the responsibility of others to keep their dogs(or in this case child) away from your dogs in a public area, even worse if its an offlead area. Start taking responsibility for your lack of training and socialisation and keep others safe. And I'm sick of people making excuses for their childrens and their own bad behaviour and lack of manners. Just because a dog is out in public does not give another person the right to touch it. None of my Samoyeds are aggressive but if I don't want someone touching them it's my right to say no and excpet people to listen. ever known or tried to control an autistic child? not that it is important whether the child was disabled or not, if your dog is so aggressive that you can't control the situation when a child comes up to it, then your dog needs to be muzzled in public. and just for the record, i'm 100% opposed to BSL, i love APBT's, i own an SBT (and i'm more than happy for anyone to come up to my dog and say hello) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No I havn't but that's not the point. It's the parents job to look after the child and the owners job to keep the dog safe. If the parent was doing their job the child would not have run up to the dog and acted in such a manner in the first place, there by not putting the child at risk of injury. The owner did the right thing by telling the child no and removing the dog from the situatio. People should be allowed to walk their dogs in public without the worry of someone harming or scaring their dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElleAus Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Thanks for everyones input. Not something I'd ever experienced but I guess it's good to know what can happen. It was frustrating how little the mother did even when the boy was shoving me hard. Whole thing could have been avoided if she'd been with him to help him understand why he couldn't pat every dog. My dog isn't a danger, he's going deaf and blind and startles easily. If I had a stranger agressive dog which I couldn't handle I wouldn't be down at the local, very busy, park. Edited February 20, 2012 by ElleAus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mymatejack Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No I havn't but that's not the point. It's the parents job to look after the child and the owners job to keep the dog safe. If the parent was doing their job the child would not have run up to the dog and acted in such a manner in the first place, there by not putting the child at risk of injury. The owner did the right thing by telling the child no and removing the dog from the situatio. People should be allowed to walk their dogs in public without the worry of someone harming or scaring their dog. so what happens when you're walking down the street with your aggressive dog and a kid on their way home from school(without a parent) decides they want to say hello? Sorry, but it is up to the dog owner to be responsible and know their dog and control it accordingly IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emgem Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 ever known or tried to control an autistic child? not that it is important whether the child was disabled or not, if your dog is so aggressive that you can't control the situation when a child comes up to it, then your dog needs to be muzzled in public. and just for the record, i'm 100% opposed to BSL, i love APBT's, i own an SBT (and i'm more than happy for anyone to come up to my dog and say hello) And if the child comes up and kicks the dog or waves garden shears in its face, is it still the dog owners fault? Because both those situations have happened to me and in both cases the parents were so negligent they barely looked up up from their phone call. If people can't control their children, they have no business taking them to the dog park. Most parents are responsible but every now and then you meet some who are negligent or just plain stupid. On one occasion we met some people who had brought their dog phobic child to the park so she would get over her fear. She alternated between screaming and sobbing the entire time, which made even a couple of dogs I would have considered fairly bombproof reactive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bjelkier Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No I havn't but that's not the point. It's the parents job to look after the child and the owners job to keep the dog safe. If the parent was doing their job the child would not have run up to the dog and acted in such a manner in the first place, there by not putting the child at risk of injury. The owner did the right thing by telling the child no and removing the dog from the situatio. People should be allowed to walk their dogs in public without the worry of someone harming or scaring their dog. so what happens when you're walking down the street with your aggressive dog and a kid on their way home from school(without a parent) decides they want to say hello? Sorry, but it is up to the dog owner to be responsible and know their dog and control it accordingly IMO. Not once have I said that it's not up to the owner to control the dog but in this situation it was not the dog that was at fault it was the parent and child. It's not like the dog was running around off leash growling at childen. It was being controled by it's owner. And if a child wanted to pat my dog without a parent around and didn't respond to my telling them no and acted in an aggressive mannor like the one the OP mentioned I would have no issues telling that child off. I would tell the child off if it did that with a parent around and the parent didn't do anything. There is no excuse for such bad behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) This is such an interesting scenario to me! I have encountered several children over the last couple of years of taking my dogs to our local off leash park who I would say are on the autism or mental disability spectrum (I'm definitely no expert but have tertiary psychology study). I have 2 small dogs and one medium breed puppy and they all get a LOT of attention from children. It surprises me how much parents let their children wander off and "play with" strange dogs and hang around with me when parents are out of sight. I've seen a maybe 6 year old child run up and hug (grab) an unknown Husky from behind, many kids have grabbed Saxon, thankfully he is pretty indifferent to it. Riley also has kids chasing him, he doesn't like being grabbed by strangers so keeps out of reach but I've had a child of about 11 angrily tell me that I'm not helping him catch Riley... Dad was 100m away, outside the park with their dog. I told the kid that it's his game and I'm not in it... Had Riley gotten more stressed or the kid actually caught him I would have said ok, game over. After the first time or two I decided that if the parents won't take charge I will. I will protect my dogs but try to respect the child, regardless of if they have a disability/health issue. So I stick close, watch my dogs and intervene of needed. Like Whippetsmum said, I would use the same sort of 1 word commands and hand signals I would use with a dog bothering my dogs. Not saying a kid is the same as a puppy but I don't know these kids so will do what works to keep the peace. ETA - And protect my dogs. They are not the slightest bit aggressive but I have no intention of letting them become so by allowing strangers of any age grab and scare them. Edited February 20, 2012 by Saxonpup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sydoo Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks for everyones input. Not something I'd ever experienced but I guess it's good to know what can happen. It was frustrating how little the mother did even when the boy was shoving me hard. Whole thing could have been avoided if she'd been with him to help him understand why he couldn't pat every dog. My dog isn't a danger, he's going deaf and blind and startles easily. If I had a stranger agressive dog which I couldn't handle I wouldn't be down at the local, very busy, park. Taking the dog out of the equation - what sort of person thinks it is okay for a child to shove a complete stranger? I am appalled that the adult didn't intervene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 If a blind child walked into your path, and inadvertently tripped you and startled your dog, would you be as angry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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