WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 So, I've been put into a 'higher' rank than I thought we should be- my pup who's just turned 6 months old, completed her puppy class late November of last year and has restarted a new class last week (they decided who goes into what group then) anyway, she's in a group with two other well mannered young adult dogs who know how to not pull on a leash while heeling, and know how to sit perfectly side on ect ect... My pup knows how to sit, drop, come, stay, watch ect, however she does not sit perfectly against me or drop the right way and she does PULL when we're doing heel work, both there and at home. My instructor expects perfect sits, drops and heel work, And insisted that I not treat her for sloppy (as in wrong angle) sits ect or she will think that this is okay (of course I never treat for pulling on the leash). I thought if she obeys me then a reward is due, as she's done the right thing...? she knows my pup is only 6 months old- my question is- should I ask to be moved to a beginner class like I thought we would be in, or continue to work with her the way she wants me to? WWYD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I think it depends on what you want out of the classes. If this feels too much, too soon then I would either go elsewhere or ask to be put into another group. The trainer sounds a bit full on, not someone I'd be very comfortable with. I think you should treat a sit whether it's perfect or not, especially for a 6 month old, still just a baby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah, I agree- Being a trainer thought that she would know best for us. Perhaps they have great expectations of my dog??? Since we've only had one class since the breakup period, I'm not sure to see how it goes or to ask to be moved right away. And yes I felt like a complete idiot! lol it was rather uncomfortable. We do want to compete to advanced obedience- but I thought baby steps... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 F11 - it is much easier to teach a dog how to do things properly the first time than reward for sloppy sits and then change the rules on them and say that is no longer acceptable. If you want to do advance club obedience then it is far better to get it right now than to try and fix it further down the track. Many people get to the advance level and decide they want to go on, but then become disheartened because sloppy sits and drops cost them points - so as I said better to fix it now. However, if you want a pet that sits and downs when asked and don't care how they do it - then continue as you are. PS - My dogs pull like mad on a lead when walking down the street Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Yeah, I see your point, however my dog now gets a confused look on her face when she's not received a treat for something she had previously gotten one for. I know she'll get over this...and begin to understand the 'new' level of training- although I do wonder if the advice I've been given is right on how to 'do it'? lure or wait for sit,drop,stand and stand still or circles for pulling. I just want consistent training that yields results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Personally I'd teach the exercises at home then proof them at the club - not the other way around. If you have seen the Michael Ellis DVD's he teaches each position in a specific order (sit from a stand, down from a stand stand from a sit, etc.) makes it much easier to get the positions correct than the traditional methods of lure a sit, down from a sit and so on. Loose leash walking is not heeling and should be taught separately and outside of classes. There are as many different methods as there are trainers to do that! Competition heeling should only be taught once the dog understands 100% what basic heel position is. Only when the dog can find the perfect position and can re-align himself THEN take your first step. JMO though... and again, it depends on what you want out of your dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 Okay, wow- there is so much more to it than previously thought! Thanks for your response- I'll look up Michael Ellis now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
becks Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 It's all about raising the bar, the instructor is right to not reward things that aren't right, but that said, you want to reward the dog as she gets closer to being right, not just suddenly stop rewarding anything that is not perfect - same principle as using the clicker, you slowly build up to getting what you want by rewarding that which is closer to ideal each time. Heel work - have you tried teaching a hand touch? Once you have your dog following your hand, you can use this to get them into the right position for heelwork, guiding them into a finish etc etc. I'm not a fan of walking around the training area to practise, better to just do one of two strides of correct work and then reward. At home you can practise against a wall so the dog is moving straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Okay, wow- there is so much more to it than previously thought! Thanks for your response- I'll look up Michael Ellis now. http://leerburg.com/flix/category.php?categoryid=10 some free ones here too http://leerburg.com/flix/category.php?categoryid=30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jr_inoz Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 There is an aspect to training of course, that you learning as well, and perhaps it is good for you to drop back a class so that you are learning what to do. (If you are a beginner too.) even in the one club, there can be lots of different training styles. I got really frustrated at mine when the instructor at our level was changed. Didn't like the style of the new instructor at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason_Gibbs Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 I agree 100% with what Polomy has said, you feel mean with the first dog not rewarding if they are not doing it right but with the 2nd one it gets easier. They soon work out that they are doing something wrong and they try offer you something else. But at home I would be working on getting her to sit straight. My 7 month old is having a hard ime getting it right but he has a sore elbow and I think he rolls back to take weight off the leg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ot, but secretkei, do you know which dvd's cover the sit from stand etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 My guess would be The Power of Training Dogs with Food (I only have the tugging one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Thanks Kabul - I have the tug one too. I really like his stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolomy Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 You could also try using a barrier to help with the straight sits and down - use a wall, even a hose on the ground - they tend to get the idea pretty quickly. One other thing - how you give the reward also plays a big part if you are using your right hand - the dogs tend to come across your body to get it - make sure you are rewarding down your left leg . I do a lot of rewarding in position with my left hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 http://leerburg.com/flix/category.php?categoryid=10 some free ones here too http://leerburg.com/flix/category.php?categoryid=30 Cheers, I've checked out some of his vids on youtube also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 even in the one club, there can be lots of different training styles. I got really frustrated at mine when the instructor at our level was changed. Didn't like the style of the new instructor at all. Yes, and this is why I've posted on here- It's a bit confusing for me and my dog! Seems it's straight out of play school, and into uni! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WExtremeG Posted February 19, 2012 Author Share Posted February 19, 2012 You could also try using a barrier to help with the straight sits and down - use a wall, even a hose on the ground - they tend to get the idea pretty quickly. One other thing - how you give the reward also plays a big part if you are using your right hand - the dogs tend to come across your body to get it - make sure you are rewarding down your left leg . I do a lot of rewarding in position with my left hand. Great tips! thanks Sounds much better than waiting for the dog to find the right position on its own- (or to lure it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Ot, but secretkei, do you know which dvd's cover the sit from stand etc? It's 'the power of training with food'. I can check what chapter if you like too, I reckon it's in the last half. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Speak with your instructor and let him/her know your thoughts/questions. From your post, I'm assuming there is another training level in between pups and the one you find yourself in now. Let the instructor explain to you why you are in the class you are in. Maybe it is a class where the expectations are too high. Or maybe not. If not, perhaps it is a bit like moving from primary school to high school. One moment you're doing really well - top of the school. Next minute you're right the way down. Maybe the others in the class have been going for some time. Or maybe an administration error has occurred and you're in the wrong class. Either way - check with the instructor. Out of anyone, s/he is the only one who can really answer your questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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