When Is It Enough...

[smisch]

Okay to cut a long story short about 18 months ago den sprained a back toe which put him out for a fair while, since then it's been an injury that every now and again comes back we seem to have a cycle going..

I have made my decision to let him run the last comps I've entered him in and then to give him a long term brake of at least a month but most likely longer so that he can run at nationals.. I'm just concerned if it doesn't heal long term or if it is a continual issue then I'm going to have to retire him as its not fair..

When do you call it quits?? I know people have gone to extreme lengths with injury heal for agility and sports but first and foremost he is the family pet and the injury doesn't affect his normal abilities to run and play.. I'm just in a bit of a hard place needing suggestions..

I'm also going to get him assessed to see what others (chiro, vets whoever I need to see) to determine what it all is and if maybe its more then I was told initially

Sorry for the ramble ..

[Ptolomy]

I kept searching for somebody that could help my dog - since he was lame even when I wasn't competing with him, doing nothing wasn't really an option and I wasn't prepared to keep him on long term anti-inflammatories. Thankfully I found a vet that did chiro, acupuncture and massage and the combination of these sees him still competing now. I did try a lot of different treatments, and this has been by far the most effective. I now see her regularly - probably every 4-6 weeks and if he doesn't need anything done then she sends us on our way. Sqiffy sits are the indication to me that he is sore.

One of my others kids has hip issues, but was also worried by being in the ring. I opted to retire her as treating her hips wasn't going to help her head problems, so I massage and heat pack her and she has acupuncture when required. I actually think bowen would possibly be better for her as she responds to touch much better than some of my other kids.

[Podengo]

I can sympathise, I have friends going through this at the moment... One dog had a bad shoulder injury, has been off since August last year, every time they think she is coming right she will come up lame again. They are looking at retirement now I believe, she is 6 and an AGGRCH.

[Ptolomy]

I kept searching for somebody that could help my dog - since he was lame even when I wasn't competing with him, doing nothing wasn't really an option and I wasn't prepared to keep him on long term anti-inflammatories. Thankfully I found a vet that did chiro, acupuncture and massage and the combination of these sees him still competing now. I did try a lot of different treatments, and this has been by far the most effective. I now see her regularly - probably every 4-6 weeks and if he doesn't need anything done then she sends us on our way. Sqiffy sits are the indication to me that he is sore.

One of my others kids has hip issues, but was also worried by being in the ring. I opted to retire her as treating her hips wasn't going to help her head problems, so I massage and heat pack her and she has acupuncture when required. I actually think bowen would possibly be better for her as she responds to touch much better than some of my other kids.

I have to also say that it is us that agonizes over whether to retire them or not - basically they don't care if they have a JDX or a CDX after their names. I have found that once I have made the decision to retire them I have found it very easy to live with and so far I don't feel that I have left making the decision past the point of no return. My retired kids often get to come to training where I do little bits with them and you would think they have won lotto.

Good luck at the Nationals if you do get there. I know of a few DOL people who have had dogs out of action for many many months, have gone through a rehab program only to have the same problem on the other leg.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Ptolomy

[smisch]

I've been lucky in the sense it's just been always one leg.. If he does end up retiring he'll go back home and enjoy being a dog with mum as she's always trying to get him back lol.. Last resort option if it's a beyond my physical relms..

I don't limit myself on my dogs as I love them but living outa home on a basic wage I do draw a limit between reasonable and having to not have a house or electricity

I'm also lucky that Ella is coming out soon so I can have a play with her and focus while den rests up

[Janba]

All though Cole does sheep work not agility I rest him physically for 2-3 months in summer. It gives his body time to heal from any injuries. His does go to the chiropractor. So far he has only had one bad injury, he damaged the tendon coming off his hock, but it has not reoccurred for over 2 years.

[ness]

Ok I might as well chip in my two cents - Kenz has been out injured since early December of 2010 - so well over 14 months now. She has been on and off lame in her right front and her also her left hind.

We have been through vets/specialists x 2/chiro vet/physio/canine massage. She has had it all. We have been through strict rest/restricted exercise. She did manage to compete in obedience last year but only at novice, however she did manage her title with some convincingly high scores.

To cut a super long story a little shorter we went off to another new specialist in November after nearly 12 months (a guy recently moved over from the states who has had plenty of dealings with rehabbing performance dogs).

We agreed if she had only been a pet dog the level of soreness she was presenting with probably wouldn't mean you would do anything more. He also agreed if she came up sore you would simply rest her. He diagnosed her right shoulder lameness as probably chronic biceps tendonitis. He was happy enough to try a "new" treatment which Inevitablue put me onto - a course of 2 PRP injections.

We have been super strict with the rehabbing as though - she has been rehabbed as though it was post joint surgery and yep its a long slow drawn out process. She is still on confinement/leash walks/swimming and he is happy enough with her progress at this point. We are nearly 8 weeks since her first PRP injection.

The spanner in my works was a diagnosis only last week of a grade 2 medial luxating patella to explain what has been happening in her left hind.

In spite of all this he sees no reason why she can't and won't run again in agility. He has seen video of her running, he knows what is involved and I am happy to be guided by him as to whether its feasible. The patella issue is one that he says he can happily fix with surgery if it starts bothering her to greatly. Got to love an ortho guy. He said its no real drama and I'll just have to go through the rehab we are doing now again post surgery.

So I have been asking myself the same question at a number of points in the last year or so. My young BC absolutely lives to work though and in fact prefers being trained to going through walks. She is significantly depressed without the training. We are now back to reasonable length walks a few times a day and swimming but she isn't happy and has been turning her nose up at her walks. Ask her to train however and she bends over backwards.

I guess we aren't at the end of the journey yet but so long as the dog is wanting to (and the specialist has no issue with me doing all I am doing) then I see no reason to not. At the moment her potential return is only limited by my patience and commitment to rehabbing her but I won't say its been an easy journey and there have been plenty of times I have thought whats the point lets go bury my head in the sand and not resurface again. The dog always comes first in the equation and I don't think the dog is ready or would be happy to retire and live a pet dog/couch potato life.

At this stage I am considering whether she will get back to agility simply for the fact she has a lot of potential to be an absolutely awesome obedience dog and I might not put her at risk, especially since her patella issue puts her at an increased risk of rupturing a cruciate. The specialist isn't so worried about the risk and says is fairly matter of fact about it suggesting if she does her cruciate then he can repair that and the patella at the same time.

I also wish you all the best for the Nationals and as Ptolomy says the dogs don't care about the titles.

Edited February 18, 2012 by ness

[J...]

From what you've written here, I would be finding a good all round sports vet and finding out what you're really dealing with. It could be something like a weakness or imbalance which needs some attention and could be assisted greatly by some stretching or strengthening work.

If I had any doubts at all about my dogs soundness they would not be training or trialling, no matter how major the trial, until I had their sports vets ok. I trust her opinion 100% and follow her suggestions to the letter and more. They see her at the start of each season change (so 3 monthly) as well as any sign of soreness or injury.

Like Janba - my two get a substantial rest at the end of each season, while they are kept very fit, they do next to no work at all for nearly 2 months. They also do a core strength and balance work using a balance disc or gym ball/peanut. Their fitness & strength is always a priority over training.

[Salukifan]

The decision was an easy one for me.

If you get to the stage where continuing agility will have a negative health or soundness impact on your dog, then its time to give it away.

[smisch]

From what you've written here, I would be finding a good all round sports vet and finding out what you're really dealing with. It could be something like a weakness or imbalance which needs some attention and could be assisted greatly by some stretching or strengthening work.

If I had any doubts at all about my dogs soundness they would not be training or trialling, no matter how major the trial, until I had their sports vets ok. I trust her opinion 100% and follow her suggestions to the letter and more. They see her at the start of each season change (so 3 monthly) as well as any sign of soreness or injury.

Like Janba - my two get a substantial rest at the end of each season, while they are kept very fit, they do next to no work at all for nearly 2 months. They also do a core strength and balance work using a balance disc or gym ball/peanut. Their fitness & strength is always a priority over training.

ATM were doing constant flat work as well ad other sruff as we're still very much out of shape due to me moving and him being at home so no training or fitness work and that's what's worrying me as he's likely to do something stupid and it could potentially flare up again last case was probably mid last year.. Having said that I'll see how he is and can pull him from runs and comps if need be..

Can you recommended any good sports vets that won't cost the earth on the central coast?? I'll go to syd if need be but it's a long haul..

[ness]

Smisch if you have access to somewhere to swim him that would be my suggestion as choice for exercise and keeping him fit. It certainly helps keep the fitness up without placing unwanted strain on anything.

Edited February 18, 2012 by ness

[smisch]

Fantastic Ill have to get him up to the dog pool or find a flat beach area for him it's all very surfy here.. :) once again a haul for the pool but worth it!

[Ptolomy]

I would perhaps caution walking in soft sand

[ness]

Thanks for mentioning that Ptolomy - if your going to swim him at the beach and its for rehabbing then I'd be careful about allowing to much free running. Kenz's swimming is controlled she is on-lead until we get into the water and I stand out in the water and she swims.

A dog pool would be preferable but the amount we are swimming at the moment she would send me broke way to quickly.

ETA. It might well just be a sprained toe. They can take a long time to heal and are easily redamaged. There is no joke that there is good news and bad news when it comes to ligament/tendon injuries. The bad news is they take a long time to recover and are easily redamaged.

Edited February 18, 2012 by ness

[Janba]

Smisch if you have access to somewhere to swim him that would be my suggestion as choice for exercise and keeping him fit. It certainly helps keep the fitness up without placing unwanted strain on anything.

I would 2nd this. Swimming is terrific excersise with low impact on the body.

ETA I am very cautious about swimming at beaches since Cole got caught in a rip and I watched him being saw out to sea. Luckily I got far enough down the beach an could call him to me across the current.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Janba

[Tassie]

Janba - that's totally scary. Luckily my guys won't go into the water past their ankles when there's any wort of surf running.

smisch - it is a hard one - especially because Den is still a young dog. My Kirra is 10 in a week - so far she's still OK to compete, but we're not going to Nationals this year because I don't want to put that much pressure on her or myself at her age. In her career, she's had a badly sprained toe (slipped on ice) - 6 to 8 weeks off and then gradual return (with the foot taped initially), and then a year ago, a hamstring tear (uneven grass and poor takeoff on a jump) - another 6 - 8 weeks out, gradual return. We see a chiro for check ups a couple of times a year, to keep them both organised - would go more often if there was a need.

My vet is happy for her to keep competing in agility as long as she wants to, but I will be a little more choosey about what I run - i.e. if the course is going to ask too much of her (given my crappy handling) we just won't run it.

In the meantime, we've started competing in Rally O - which, fortunately, she loves - it appeals to her sense of adventure - and she is still enjoying Track & Search.

[Guest Clover]

It is a hard choice to make but as someone else said they dont know they have titles, they run because they love it and most will keep going til they drop. I retired both my BCs from Flyball last year, one because 7 years of playing flyball finally started taking its toll and i did not want to live with a crippled old dog. He is more than happy being retired, is kept fit and healthy and hopefully i will have him around for many more years. My dogs are worth more to me than any title.

It is realy hard with a young dog though, i'd find exactly what is going on and take it from there.

[smisch]

Well spoke to a few people today at class and going to see if we can book in to see Keith Phillips who's been recommended to me by my instructor and a number of others at the class and go from there..

[Agility Dogs]

Well spoke to a few people today at class and going to see if we can book in to see Keith Phillips who's been recommended to me by my instructor and a number of others at the class and go from there..

Good luck. Hope Den is OK. :)

T

[smisch]

Well spoke to a few people today at class and going to see if we can book in to see Keith Phillips who's been recommended to me by my instructor and a number of others at the class and go from there..

Good luck. Hope Den is OK. :)

Me too hoping he'll have answers as I said its not bothering him now as in there's no sign of the injury and hasn't been for a while but I just wanna sort the rest out cos hes not in the best of shape ATM..

T