Competition Nosework

[Kavik]

I noticed that Leerburg was making some new videos on scent detection, but didn't think too much about it (they make lots of working dog videos), and then today when looking for articles on tracking and scentwork, came across this site. Looks like scent detection could be a new competition sport in some countries! How cool is that! I briefly toyed with teaching scent detction in 2003 when I did a scent detection course through NDTF but never managed to complete the practical section (life got in the way, and Zoe was my only training dog at the time, and I struggled with her aggression issues).

http://www.funnosework.com/home.html

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kavik

[Jigsaw]

I've noticed Nosework classes seem to be being introduced on a lot of US sites I've seen and talked about on FB. It seems to work on similar principles to scent detection with usually starting out with hiding a treat in a box and asking the dog to find it. Then making it more difficult for the dog. The Nosework trials look like fun, and a novel way of competing with your dog and probably less rigorous than tracking! Actually the kits don't look that hard to put together.

[erinonthefarm]

That would be great, because you need a lot of availabel space to run a tracking trial, and there are potential safety issues like snakes.

How would it get up and running here?

[Nekhbet]

I'm going to start doing it at my school, I did it at the last school I was teaching at as a fun thing, active alert dogs and by the end of one session we had 3 dogs finding oregano packets hidden in the car park (I hid them behind wheels, under body work etc)

Definitely a good thing to do no matter what the motivation is, food or toy.

[Kavik]

Did you use a dig/scratch alert or a sit alert Nekhbet? I trained a dig alert, but next time I give it a go I think I will do a sit alert - more dificult to demo and more destructive to do a dig alert :laugh: though it was heaps of fun to teach and fun for the dog to do.

[Nekhbet]

we started with active which is to dig it out from under things (hence why we didnt put things IN people's cars!), we will do passive at the school but I need to build a scent wall for that, makes the job a heck of a lot easier ... just finished the A Frame and Walkover today in the school colours covered in paint now lol

so this type of thing but the ball launcher will be a well timed volunteer :laugh: I don't mind active alert dogs, but the scent wall is not for that, and I dont thing too many owners would be happy with a well rewarded active alert dog tearing up their house if the chosen substance accidentally enters the premises

[Jumabaar]

we started with active which is to dig it out from under things (hence why we didnt put things IN people's cars!), we will do passive at the school but I need to build a scent wall for that, makes the job a heck of a lot easier ... just finished the A Frame and Walkover today in the school colours covered in paint now lol

so this type of thing but the ball launcher will be a well timed volunteer :laugh: I don't mind active alert dogs, but the scent wall is not for that, and I dont thing too many owners would be happy with a well rewarded active alert dog tearing up their house if the chosen substance accidentally enters the premises

Thats epic!! Why are you down in Vic I wish I had access to something like that here!!

[Erny]

This is something I've been thinking of introducing to Pro-K9's training as well. 2011 has been a bit of a tough year with other unavoidable necessaries getting in the way, so haven't been able to put it into place as yet, but I too think it is a great idea for people to do as an alternative fun thing for them and their dogs.

I like the idea of scenting becoming a sport. Thanks for the post and link, Kavik.

[Kavik]

Great video Nekhbet - that is so awesome! :laugh:

Active response was great fun but yeah the destructive factor :laugh: so next time I think I will do passive, will make it easier to demo to people too.

[Kavik]

It looks like training in this area has progressed from last time I looked - pretty sure I didn't learn about reward from source as much when I did the course in 2003. Little bit surrounding tug, but not with the ball propelling type set up that Nekhbet showed. That sounds like an awesome way to get such focus on the target odor and reduce some of the issues surrounding handler reward/focus inadvertently helping/cueing dogs and them waiting for this when the source placement is known.

[Nekhbet]

jumabaar it's not hard to knock one up yourself, there's plenty of patterns on the internet/youtube about how to do it.

Erny even without the scent wall, I found it was an easy, novel exercise that really excited people. We just used food for the dogs, initially putting the food on the container which sat in a cardboard box. Once the dogs understood putting their heads in the box, the food was moved under the target odour container. Then we moved the container behind the wheel of a car, the command SEARCH was given only when the dogs were audibly sniffing hard, and rewarded when they found the target odour. Easy as pie for all of them. One even self corrected on residual I was rather impressed.

Malinois are enthusiastic enough, I think if my little one became active alert we'd have to rename her Storm :laugh: I don't want her trained on household substances though otherwise she will tear the house apart, I'll have to get a hold of something more 'novel' to train her on. I learned my lesson when I helped a student train an active alert dog on oregano, and I forgot I left the packet on the kitchen bench broken stuff everywhere ... and I had to praise the dog as technically she did find the target odour.

[Nekhbet]

THere is also what they call the Dutch Boxes, which teaches the dogs to search under distraction. You can also get the ball launchers that fire vertically from boxes that sit on the ground with target odours inside, it's too much for just the average pet dog.

Then there is handler technique. Deliberately leading the dog to the odour, correcting the dog, ignoring the dogs body language etc. It's why I'm putting scent detection, tracking and off lead agility in their own separate small classes with a seminar session first, there's more too it then people think.

[Kavik]

Yeah handler technique is where I had some problems :laugh: .Training on my own without assistance or people to troubleshoot with didn't help either. Zoe was not too bad by the end, needed to do more proofing though, was not able to get it up to 3 odors under testable destractions and new location needed to pass the course. I did active response food reward, shaped the dig response by putting food under a milk carton and using a clicker to build up duration of digging, reward from me. Then put target odor with the food under the milk carton. I like the reward from source idea, sounds like it could produce more independent searching and a stronger alert.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Kavik

[dasha]

Feeding from the source will not mean you will get a better response or alert or independent search. It also limits how you can reward your dog. What if you can't access the area he alerts to to give the food to him. This will in fact limit a dogs independent search as the it will soon learn if it finds something in a hard to find place, a reward may not be able to be as good, long etc. If you drop food, it can contaminate the scent area for your dog as well as any others if you are training multiple dogs. Sometimes it is actually worse.

You can easily do active response, bridge for alert, and then reward. This can also be used for food dogs or play reward dogs.

Training a dog on household items will not cause it to go crazy in the house unless it is poorly trained. A dog should search when asked. Scent detection as a trained behaviour is no different to training a lot of other sport behaviours.

You don't see quarantine dogs going crazy outside cause they can smell birds, grass, soil, leaves, bark, the fruit you had for lunch etc. They only alert to odours when they are given a search cue.

Teaching a dog to go on a table for agility or obedience exercises doesn't mean its going to jump on the kitchen table just because its a table. Dogs know the difference from when they are working or not IF TRAINED CORRECTLY

[Kavik]

Looking at the freebies on Leerburg about Nosework - looks like eventually they fade out reward from source directly and instead reward from the handler thrown near the odor. The reward from source would only be done in setups in training where the area would be easily accessed. You wouldn't move to searches in more difficult to access places until you had moved from reward directly at source (like scent boxes/walls) to reward thrown near source by handler. I do think it sounds like it would help reduce the amount of handler reliance/look to handler as the dog would be more focused on the odor source rather than looking at the handler for reward.

I agree that they should only alert when told to work.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Kavik

[Nekhbet]

You don't see quarantine dogs going crazy outside cause they can smell birds, grass, soil, leaves, bark, the fruit you had for lunch etc. They only alert to odours when they are given a search cue.

Many scent detection dogs do not live in family homes, otherwise the fact they live around the smells they are meant to alert to (therefore learning to become passive to odours and missing reward opportunities) can interfere with their effectiveness. Departments like AQIS only have their dogs in a kennel environment.

Training a dog on household items will not cause it to go crazy in the house unless it is poorly trained.

Yes and no. A dog knows the difference between an obedience and dining table. But when you are asking for so much enthusiasm for a dog and you teach that the reward comes from detection of the scent, what do you think the average higher drive dog would do? And you would have to reward it, commanded or not. A good detection dog should never be ignored or chastised because it alerted to an odour without command, most departments would have a really poor performance rate if the dogs ONLY did their work when directly commanded.

[PAX]

Hey Dasha, dont you work for AQIS?

Forgot to add

Edited February 17, 2012 by PAX

[Erny]

Many scent detection dogs do not live in family homes, otherwise the fact they live around the smells they are meant to alert to (therefore learning to become passive to odours and missing reward opportunities) can interfere with their effectiveness.

Is that why drug dogs are housed in kennels

Dasha :

Training a dog on household items will not cause it to go crazy in the house unless it is poorly trained.

Nekhbet :

But when you are asking for so much enthusiasm for a dog and you teach that the reward comes from detection of the scent, what do you think the average higher drive dog would do? And you would have to reward it, commanded or not. A good detection dog should never be ignored or chastised because it alerted to an odour without command, most departments would have a really poor performance rate if the dogs ONLY did their work when directly commanded.

But what about the on/off switch for drive? Don't you think a dog would know a game can only be won if a game is "on"? Otherwise, what about protection training .... I mean, you can't reward a dog for biting someone when it wasn't commanded. ETA: Save for extenuating circumstances where the dog needs to use discretion ... but then, discretion is what the dog is trained for as well.

Edited February 17, 2012 by Erny

[PAX]

1329478087[/url]' post='5726363']

1329470307[/url]' post='5726154']Many scent detection dogs do not live in family homes, otherwise the fact they live around the smells they are meant to alert to (therefore learning to become passive to odours and missing reward opportunities) can interfere with their effectiveness.

Is that why drug dogs are housed in kennels

Dasha :

Training a dog on household items will not cause it to go crazy in the house unless it is poorly trained.

Nekhbet :

But when you are asking for so much enthusiasm for a dog and you teach that the reward comes from detection of the scent, what do you think the average higher drive dog would do? And you would have to reward it, commanded or not. A good detection dog should never be ignored or chastised because it alerted to an odour without command, most departments would have a really poor performance rate if the dogs ONLY did their work when directly commanded.

But what about the on/off switch for drive? Don't you think a dog would know a game can only be won if a game is "on"? Otherwise, what about protection training .... I mean, you can't reward a dog for biting someone when it wasn't commanded.

Exactly, if you haven't asked for it, it should get ignored. Need to have a like button:)

[Erny]

I'm not sure I like the dog learning to get the reward from the target odour box. If it is to be faded out, which it needs to be, then it is possibly an extra in between step to the ultimate training goal. Not as though I know it all, of course - because I don't. And I can see how this might overcome some hurdles for getting some dogs 'going'. But as a standard approach, I'm not sure it is absolutely necessary as I've seen some excellent scent work that to my knowledge was not attained by that method.

I do think it sounds like it would help reduce the amount of handler reliance/look to handler as the dog would be more focused on the odour source rather than looking at the handler for reward.

If training was done right though, wouldn't it be the case that the dog would learn that more focus on the odour source will achieve the reward faster?