Best In Show At Westminster (usa) V- Videos

[mita]

Such is te case wit many coated breeds. Can you tell on a Shihtzu? Or a Samoyed? Or a Poodle? (except fr the bare bits of course!) The judges use their hands for a reason. Coat can be grown, or trimmed, to give all sorts of visual illusions as to what is underneath, good judges feel their way past what they can, or can't see.

Speaking only for myself, I have no problems with Tibetan Spaniels being clipped, when they live entirely the life of a pet.

They have well-shaped little bodies & look like lambs.

[Jed]

I hate coming to this forum. Despite it being a purebred forum, it doesn't matter what is written about purebred dogs, someone has to denigrate and criticise.

How sad to have no appreciation for something beautiful.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Jed

[korbin13]

I hate coming to this forum. Despite it being a purebred forum, it doesn't matter what is written about purebred dogs, someone has to denigrate and criticise.

How sad to have no appreciation for something beautiful.

I know nothing about showing but this thread as well as others have opened my eyes. I will probably never show but can now at least appreciate what is being achieved by showing dogs. I even now want to go and see some dog shows. And I think that in that way, this forum has achieved one of its objectives which is promoting purebred dogs.

Years ago I too would have looked at that dog and thought it was ridiculous but this thread has informed me that there is a well formed dog under all that hair and that is how it would have been judged.

What appears to be obvious to the people in the know, can be bewildering to us who have no idea And I love a healthy debate!

[OSoSwift]

If his coat was brushed flat instead of brushed back he would look very similar to the posted photos

[sandgrubber]

Ok . . . if you don't think Lootie was a good representative of the breed, try Ah Chum, who is preserved via taxadermy, at the Walter Rothschild Zoological Museum in the village of Tring -- about 30 miles Northwest of London. This dog is widely regarded as the 'Adam' of the breed.

I'd also recommend the document from which I clipped this photo . . . which comes from a Peke insider and makes a pretty strong case that the modern (as of 1989) Peke is a breed created by dog fanciers from a mixture of Chinese sources . . . and that Chinese dog breeding practices were not consistent with purebred as we use the word today.

The Pekingese and The Happa Dog . . .

A few extracts from that source. He is reflecting on early specimens of Chinese dogs displayed in the museum: "If I expected to learn something about the history of Pekingese by seeing the founding sire of the breed, Ah Cum, it was the Happa dog that was the eye-opener --- because the Happa dog's type, proportion and overall construction were far more familiar to me as a Peke breeder and appeared far more like the Pekingese we know today than the breed's well documented patriarch standing next to him.

There are a number of good accounts of breeding activity of the early Pekingese breeders in England and America, though one thing always remained unclear. People wondered how British breeders -- who are credited with a major role in developing the modern Pekingese -- were able to produce a compact, barrel chested, heavily coated Peke with short, heavy boned, well bowed forelegs using late 19th and early 20th century breeding stock that was more upstanding, often with longer, narrow bodies, with little or no bow whatsoever in their forelegs.

The assumption had always been that Pekingese breeders of yesteryear developed the breed "from within" -- through inbreeding -- which allegedly produced atavism, or “throwbacks” to hidden characteristics. Or the thinking was, perhaps there were mutations which could explain the expression of some traits and the evolution of the breed's appearance. Nobody ever really questioned it.

But a more logical, even obvious, answer to the mystery lies hidden in the Rothschild Museum in Tring with the ancient Happa dog "Ta-Jen" whose "Pekingesey" characteristics are more typical, more recognizable, and positively more likely than the breed's recorded patriarch, Ah Cum.

The Happa dog exhibits typical traits for the breed as we know it today. He has the correct body shape for a modern Pekingese with barrel rib and is low to ground. He has a bowed front, not straight forelegs like Ah Cum presented next to him for comparison. The Happa's broad shallow head, large wideset eyes and earset level with the topskull are more typical of a modern Pekingese than Ah Cum. The obvious atypical traits are the Happa's short tail and faulty tail carriage. But these are anomalies that remain a remote factor in the modern Pekingese gene pool and represent traits that can be improved or “corrected” in one generation. From my perspective as a longtime Pekingese breeder, seeing the Happa dog was like "coming home" and filled in a key missing piece of the Pekingese evolutionary puzzle. ...

According to one of the most definitive and highly respected sources on the history of Asian dogs, Dogs of China and Japan in Nature and Art by V.W.F. Collier, published early 20th century, the term "Happa Dog" was used by the Chinese for virtually any small lap dog of any breed. "Happa" was the Manchu word for "limp, or roll in the walk," with of course the roll (hopefully not the limp) being regarded as typically characteristic of the Pekingese gait.

If we delve into the breeding practices of the Chinese eunuchs and Buddhist monks who for centuries were responsible for producing valued characteristics in dogs and cats in palaces and monasteries, it's clear these breeders freely practiced crossbreeding. For example, Collier states in his writings "In China, the breed (Shih Tzu) is nowadays sometimes crossed with Pekingese with a view to introducing length of coat to that breed.

Then too, in Britain in 1952, a Kennel Club sanctioned Peke/Shih Tzu cross was conducted officially for the purpose of modifying Shih Tzu breed type. As we all know, breeds were created and improved through crossbreeding, so it's no stretch of the imagination to presume that official Peke/Shih Tzu cross -- which took place over several generations -- very likely produced crossbreds that quietly made their way into the hands of clever Peke breeders who, looking for a competitive edge, easily added longer coat to future generations of show stock, albeit off the record.

. . .

When the Asian breeds first began their regular influx into Britain in the mid 19th century, these dogs were a miscellaneous mixture of a number of breeds. So British breeders were accustomed to this and clearly had their work cut out for them in sorting out the traits and genes.

In China there was no taboo associated with continual crossbreeding and of course the practice produced a variety of types. It's understandable then why the Chinese would have been inclined to use a generic, catch-all term such as "Happa" for a small lap dog of any kind. The distinction between breeds in many instances would have been blurred, and even some of the best dogs which approached the ideal would not have necessarily bred true, although it was said the Japanese Spaniel was more likely to breed true than the Pekingese.

Because the Asian culture is steeped in mysticism, one of the highest priorities in breeding in ancient China was the production of dogs with special markings which had symbolic significance and great value. In particular, the white forehead blaze was highly prized as “a superior mark of Buddha,” which the Chinese called "a little ball shining like snow between the eyebrows." It could be for this reason alone that many of the dogs depicted in ancient Chinese artwork exhibit parti-color traits which Ta-Jen also exhibits.

Edited February 18, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Sheridan]

For those interested, here's an interview with Cindy Vogels, the BIS judge.

http://kwgn.com/2012/02/17/best-in-show-judge-at-the-westminster-dog-show/

ETA Give it up, sandgrubber. I'm pretty sure that your criticisms of the peke would just transfer to one of the other dogs had one of them won, so come on, critique the other dogs. I'm a kerry blue aficionado so why don't you start with her.

Edited February 18, 2012 by Sheridan

[WreckitWhippet]

My only criticism, is that I would have liked to have seen a lot less weight on quite a few of the dogs.

[Crisovar]

Sandgrubber you asked

What happened to the famed Aussie tall poppy syndrome

it appears it is really alive and well over at the AKC and all it stands for haters forum you play on over in the good ol U S of A

[raz]

Great to see all the handlers congratulating him.

[benshiva]

My only criticism, is that I would have liked to have seen a lot less weight on quite a few of the dogs.

They like to keep them a little heavier over there, you're so right.

[OSoSwift]

My only criticism, is that I would have liked to have seen a lot less weight on quite a few of the dogs.

They like to keep them a little heavier over there, you're so right.

Yes I agree.

[Crisovar]

Some of the Sporting dogs were a tad softer in condition than I like and I dislike the over use of bait in the ring but overall their presentation is right up there. I don't think any dog steps foot in the without a going over with the high velocity dryer :D

[mita]

. .

When the Asian breeds first began their regular influx into Britain in the mid 19th century, these dogs were a miscellaneous mixture of a number of breeds. So British breeders were accustomed to this and clearly had their work cut out for them in sorting out the traits and genes.

You've further supported my argument. Lootie & Ah Chum.....nicked by the British from China during the late 19th century did not match the premium standard for a Court small 'Lion Dog' described by the ulitmate breeding manager for that Court.....the Empress. She left a clear documentation of that premium standard (& the behaviours and lifestyle which went with it).

It was from that Empress's description that the 'Pekingese' was developed under Western Kennel Club supervision via selective breeding. So it's no surprise that the description is close to today's Malachy & also to the photos of developed Pekes posted by Aloysha.

The Empress also placed this conformation within the activities of a particular lifestyle. I can't see any evidence that Malachy would have any impediments in living a similar, but modernized life-style.

What is needed is more public education about the histories and development of today's purebred dogs. Including the fact that the development is not just related to appearance or conformation.....but to different activities in different lifestyles. All of which is actually one of the strengths possible in pure dog breeding.

O/T photos of 2 Tibetan Spaniels winning their section at Westminster.

http://www.westminsterkennelclub.org/2012/results/breed/tibspan.html

Edited February 19, 2012 by mita

[mita]

Such is te case wit many coated breeds. Can you tell on a Shihtzu? Or a Samoyed? Or a Poodle? (except fr the bare bits of course!) The judges use their hands for a reason. Coat can be grown, or trimmed, to give all sorts of visual illusions as to what is underneath, good judges feel their way past what they can, or can't see.

There's a variety of 'cuts' that people can choose for their pet Shih Tzu or Poodle.

Just out of interest, here's a sturdy little 'crouching lion' shape of a pet Pekingese that's been given a cut not unlike one that pet Shih Tzus can get. I have no idea of this little one's background.

Edited February 19, 2012 by mita

[mita]

Great article about Malachy going home after his win.

There's definitely a sturdy-bodied little Lion Dog under his fur. His owner/handler says Malachy trains 'like an athlete', going up and down their long driveway every day. He also likes butter on toast....not margarine.

Sardi's, the posh restaurant in New York, got permission for Malachy to have dinner there after his win, cooking up chicken and rice for him.

Lovely pic of Malachy, later at home, posed in his winning cup.

The evidence is that this purebred Pekingese lives a happy, mobile & healthy life.

I got this link from US Tibetan Spaniel breeders who are delighted for Malachy & his win.

http://www.ydr.com/ci_19988379#.Tz8mv8IG18Y.email

Edited February 20, 2012 by mita

[Abilene]

My only criticism, is that I would have liked to have seen a lot less weight on quite a few of the dogs.

They like to keep them a little heavier over there, you're so right.

Yes I agree.

I too have found this here. But I have also found that the rings are generally so much smaller than our rings in Australia.I also wonder if the dogs are carrying more weight here because Westminster is held in the middle of winter and maybe the dogs don't get as much exercise as they would in summer... I know my show dogs don't...(not saying they don't get exercised at all... but they don't get as much exercise in winter as they do in summer (neither do I :D ) and when it is sub zero temps outside and snow etc.. it is more challenging to get dogs fit and toned for the ring.... I would like to see more emphasis placed on movement here in allbreeds shows (but that is what I am used to in Australia .. generally speaking of course), but otherwise the dogs that set foot into the ring are usually immaculately presented.