Mumscats Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Hi there, I have a 13 year old Labrador and she had mouth cancer removed in about September last year and the vet said he got as much out as he could. Initially he thought it was in one area but it had actually spread. I noticed in December some swelling on her face on the siade the cancer was removed and checked her mouth and there didnt appear to be a lump inside but the lump has come back and is very large. Her face is swollen. I was advised by people that if it come back not to get it removed again because of her age, she is nearly 14 and also because it is an aggressive type of cancer. I saw the vet when I took my younger girl for her needle about a month ago and asked him if I was on the right track and he agreed. I have been advised by people to just keep her going whilst she is eating ok etc. She is eating ok and is pleased to see me etc. wags her tail. Does anyhone know if there is anything more that I can do to help because I cannot bring myself to take her to the vets to be put to sleep whilst she is eating ok but I also dont want to be selfish in keeping her alive if she is suffering. Thanks, Mumscats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadbury Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Mumscats I think you are doing the right thing, my Vet of 40 years told me that I would know the right day, I found this advice to be true my animals all gave me that look.......today is the day. Kiss your darling girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dianed Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 If she is not in pain, still eating and generally happy then it is not her time. You can tell by their eyes when all is not well.I knew when my old girls time was up last year when she refused to eat and basically was not interested in things anymore. It came on suddenly and I nursed her for 2 weeks in which time she lost so much weight. My girl was nearly 14 which was old for a gsd, treasure every day you have her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Mumscats. In the palliative care forum there is a thread called 'Unwell Rottweilers'. In that thread I posted about my Rottweiler 'Sophie' and her journey with oral cancer. We tried many and various supplements to keep her feeling well. She did well for a year after her initial diagnosis. What type of cancer has your girl been diagnosed with? My girl had Osteosarcoma of the gum. Most of the oral cancers in dogs I researched at the time were melanomas. I wish you well and please keep us posted about your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 There is plenty you can do with diet and supplements to keep her well but how far you want to go is up to you and what you are comfortable with. I suggest a good holistic vet for diet and supplements. My old dog Ollie lived 6 years after he was diagnosed with MCT (not an aggressive or mouth cancer)... Mostly due to the holistic treatment in my opinion. I am a big believer in the fact that we know our dogs best, we know what they are happy with and what they can and will tolerate... You know what is best for your girl... cNr, I saw a beautiful Rott girl the other day and my thoughts went straight to you and Sophie... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted February 19, 2012 Share Posted February 19, 2012 Mumscats, there are some excellent sites for cancer dogs. Suggest you join the Yahoo Avemar group. I credit Avemar for etending my girl's lifespan for much longer than expected by her oncologist. (Staffyluv, bless you for thinking of us. Still miss my girl every day) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thank you kindly for everyone for your replies. My girl is generally pretty ok. The lump inside her mouth is very large and weeps a little bit and her eye is constantly weeping. She is eating ok still and although she has slowed down a lot and is laying around more, she still follows me around and wags her tail. She is drinking a lot of water each day. One of my sons saw her last week and said that she did not look happy and that I should take her and have her put out of her misery. Last night I thought I might take her one day this week but it has to be the right day but she was looking brighter this morning and was wagging her tail. I now think how can I do this whilst she is still walking around OK and eating extremely well. I am reluctant to take her to the vets as they will probably maybe want me to put her down and I just dont know what to do. It would be good if they could give me something to perhaps help her a bit but you just dont know with vets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Mumscats, has your girl been seen by an oncologist. If not I would ask your vet for a referral. Oncologists know a lot more about cancer and are up to date with the most recent treatments and medications. Far more so than our regular vets. My dog was still eating, drinking and was playful most of the time too but I knew her oral cancer was painful. In her last few days I could see by her facial expressions when she was sleeping that the cancer was causing pain. Overnight she developed a huge enlarged lymph gland so I knew the cancer was spreading. I had her put to sleep two days later. My philosophy has always been that I'd rather be a day early than a day late and cause my dog to suffer needlesly for an extra day. It was the most difficult and painful thing I've ever had to do in my life. Would you mind telling us if your dog's oral cancer is a melanoma or a malignant lump on her gum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Mumscats, has your girl been seen by an oncologist. If not I would ask your vet for a referral. Oncologists know a lot more about cancer and are up to date with the most recent treatments and medications. Far more so than our regular vets. My dog was still eating, drinking and was playful most of the time too but I knew her oral cancer was painful. In her last few days I could see by her facial expressions when she was sleeping that the cancer was causing pain. Overnight she developed a huge enlarged lymph gland so I knew the cancer was spreading. I had her put to sleep two days later. My philosophy has always been that I'd rather be a day early than a day late and cause my dog to suffer needlesly for an extra day. It was the most difficult and painful thing I've ever had to do in my life. Would you mind telling us if your dog's oral cancer is a melanoma or a malignant lump on her gum. Thanks kindly for your message. I am not sure which type of oral cancer it is as when I had the lump removed in September \the vet did not get it tested but the lump inside her mouth is very big now, very red. It is very noticable when her mouth is closed and the eye is weeping as I said previously. She sleeps in my room and seems to sleep quite well at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Thanks kindly for your message. I am not sure which type of oral cancer it is as when I had the lump removed in September \the vet did not get it tested but the lump inside her mouth is very big now, very red. It is very noticable when her mouth is closed and the eye is weeping as I said previously. She sleeps in my room and seems to sleep quite well at night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 A good vet will discuss your options with you. If you wan to treat or just do palliative care until the end, then your vet will respect that. Ours never once pushed us to do anything, he made recommendations and I researched and then decided. You need to find a vet you and your dog are happy with. Our vet did not really agree with the supplements and holistic treatment but he sent Ollie's results to the holistic vet every time I asked him to so they could adjust Ollie's treatment when needed. There is so much to be said for holistic treatment. It supplements conventional medicine so well... With cancer, you need to know what you are fighting. I don't know anything about mouth cancers but if it is weeping and affecting her eye, I would think it is quite advanced. There are salves you can get to help dry things out, there are diet changes you can make to slow the cancer down (one idea is that carbs feed cancer cells, so remove as many processed carbs as possible)... Get rid of grains in the diet. These are onlymsuggestions but you really need to know Wheaton are fighting if you want to try and keep your girl well for as long as possible. Good luck and although I don't know much aboutnmouthncanacers I have done lots of research on cancer and dogs in general. See if you can get a diagnosis and see a canine oncologist to discuss treatment (if that is what you want to do). That is the first step... Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 20, 2012 Author Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hi everyone, I rang my vet last night as I was thinking perhaps the end might be coming for my girl even though she is very bright. He had gone for the evening but rang me back before and told me about a place that deals with cancers in dogs in Moorabbin, called Southpaws and I have a consulation on Thursday morning and take it from there. The vet said that it is a good sign that Tamnmie is eating ok, wagging her tail and walking around ok, it means that she is happy generally. I am waiting for him to ring me back as he took a sample when he operated on her in September and he is going to try and find it and I think it needs to be tested so that we know what we are dealing with here. I am also not going to thrown thousands of dollars at her at this age so I will just see what they have to say on Thursday. If I can get a bit longer out of her it would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Good luck on thursday! I recently found out my little dog has massive cancers (really nasty cancer that had already spread) in her abdomen, i then took her to the specialist to statisfy myself with the diagnosis and see what they thought with treatments. Unfortunatley the diagnosis was still terrible, and i didnt want to put her through a massive and risky surgery just to get another possible three months from her so we are now doing palative care. The vets have been great and said there is no need atm to put her to sleep as she is still comfortable and happy (though eating is the hard part). It made me feel better to get a specialists opinion and all the vets have been very happy for her to go with palative care rather to rush and put her to sleep. Good luck with your girl, i have no advice other than to say if the dog still has quality of life then im sure the vets will be more than happy to help you along with keeping her happy and not rush to put to sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 22, 2012 Author Share Posted February 22, 2012 Good luck on thursday! I recently found out my little dog has massive cancers (really nasty cancer that had already spread) in her abdomen, i then took her to the specialist to statisfy myself with the diagnosis and see what they thought with treatments. Unfortunatley the diagnosis was still terrible, and i didnt want to put her through a massive and risky surgery just to get another possible three months from her so we are now doing palative care. The vets have been great and said there is no need atm to put her to sleep as she is still comfortable and happy (though eating is the hard part). It made me feel better to get a specialists opinion and all the vets have been very happy for her to go with palative care rather to rush and put her to sleep. Good luck with your girl, i have no advice other than to say if the dog still has quality of life then im sure the vets will be more than happy to help you along with keeping her happy and not rush to put to sleep. Hi Tala's Mum, Thanks for your message. I am pleased that you have been going well with the pallative care for now with your girl. I am not very confident that the outcome with my girl is going to be very good at all in fact I sent an email to the vet this morning as I have been out all morning to see if I can bring her into him today as the lump is so big and it is bleeding a bit from time to time. I have left a message for him to call me this afternoon. I am also a bit suspicious about the place I am taking her as the first consultation is free. I have a gut feeling that the treatments are going to be very expensive Most of those type places are and I am sorry if I offend anyone I am not going to spend hundreds of dollars on a dog who is nearly 14 if it is going to keep coming back. I have already had it removed once so I just dont know. I am thinking now that the previous one was in the lower jaw and this is the upper jaw and from what I can see the lower jaw still looks ok but I was warned by the vet that it could be an aggressive type and could come back. Hopefully the vet will ring me back today otherwise I will go to the appointment in the morning and see what is what. Good luck with your girl. Mumscats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffyluv Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 Our first consult was not free but our treatment wasn't either. I think we spent in the vicinity of $6,000 on chemo alone, operations were up around the same and the holistic treatment (including supplements and consults) would have been that and more... I stopped keeping track when we hit around $20,000. Don't feel like you offend anyone, we are all different and all prepared to do what suits us, our dog and our finances... There is no real right and wrong in this... A free consult can't hurt.. If they give you an outrageous fee proposal, you don't have to go back... If it isn't suitable, the holistic treatment can help keep them feeling well. And it does not have to cost the earth.. If they say she does not have long, it might be more beneficial to just take her home and let her have whatever she wants for her time left with you. Wishing lots of luck for your appointment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted February 22, 2012 Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I agree with Staffyluv, just go and see what they say. I still wonder if i should go for surgery but then are reminded by the fact the cancer has spread so she most likely would be put to sleep on the table i was told. Its a hard decision but whatever one you make is right for you and your dog. Good Luck :) Edited February 22, 2012 by Alibi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 23, 2012 Author Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hi Everyone. I was referred to the specialist place in Moorabbin today. The vet examined Tammie and gave me options. He said that the lump is very large and has spread, he could have operated but was not sure how she would come out of the operation and also he did not know whether it had spread anywhere else in her body. We also dont know what type we are dealing with as there is 5 different types of mouth cancer. The option he gave me was to do a CT scan of $1000 plus other tests and then the operation which cut out some of the bone but he was not sure how it would go due to the size of the lump etc. I have decided to have her put to sleep, although she seems generally happy, eats OK etc. but occasionally makes some strange noises and the vet felt that was probably something to do with her nose. He said I have made the right decision. I am taking her in a couple of hours. I could have kept her for a few more days but the lump is so big and she is constantly bleeding so it is not fair to keep an animal in that state just for my own selfish reasons. My heart is breaking right at the moment and my stomach is tied up in about a thousand knots but I will be ok once it is over, I think. If the lump was on her leg or maybe somewhere else I might have still kept her going but the mouth is not nice at all for her. We dont even know which one we are dealing with because my vet took a sample but never sent it away for testing at the time of the first operation. I have been around dogs for years, it is never easy. Thanks everyone for your help with me on this. Best Wishes, Mumscats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alibi Posted February 23, 2012 Share Posted February 23, 2012 Hugs to you mumscats, its never an easy decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks kindly to everyone for their help with me on this. Tammie is now at rest. I took her to my vet last night and she was put out of her pain although you would not have throught that she was in pain but the vet said that I had made the right decision. With the benefit of hindsight I should have asked the vet to get the sample he took in September when she had the tumours removed tested so that we knew which one we were dealing with. I learn from my visit to the specialist yesterday that there is 5 different types of mouth cancers that dogs can get. It would have been better to know back in September to know what we were dealing with. But she was really good with it up until a couple of weeks ago when the lump was starting to grow rapidly and bleed quite a lot. I am now also looking at pet insurance for my other girl just in case. I wish everyone the best and I will bollow the posts on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mumscats Posted February 24, 2012 Author Share Posted February 24, 2012 Thanks kindly to everyone for their help with me on this. Tammie is now at rest. I took her to my vet last night and she was put out of her pain although you would not have throught that she was in pain but the vet said that I had made the right decision. With the benefit of hindsight I should have asked the vet to get the sample he took in September when she had the tumours removed tested so that we knew which one we were dealing with. I learn from my visit to the specialist yesterday that there is 5 different types of mouth cancers that dogs can get. It would have been better to know back in September to know what we were dealing with. But she was really good with it up until a couple of weeks ago when the lump was starting to grow rapidly and bleed quite a lot. I am now also looking at pet insurance for my other girl just in case. I wish everyone the best and I will bollow the posts on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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