Updated - He Has Got Worse

[Dame Aussie]

I guess though from working in a shelter I know that people whinge if you don't rehome a dog and then they whinge when it has issues.....can't really win.

An assessment on a dogs temperament can go really well, and then you can be faced with behaviour that the dog just doesn't get a chance to show in a shelter/pound environment.

For example, if they're in a pen with not oys etc they can't be destructive so there may have been no evidence of this while the dog was impounded IYKWIM?

[dog_fan]

I do KWYM but I think the shelter has a responsibility to assist the new owner rather than just saying to crate train the dog, advice that was given without a behavioural assessment. Crate training the dog may be the worst thing to do, who knows until an assessment is done?

I know if I was in this situation I would return the dog because I certainly would not have expected to deal with all these issues and I wouldn't want to deal with them.

If I had been warned about the behaviour and had taken the dog on knowing all the issues and had made an informed decision then of course I would work through the issues, but the OP was not told of them and now has to deal with a dog who I am sure has not met expectations.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Having adopted a dog from a shelter myself who turned out to have SA I would say that it is better to return the dog within the first month rather than struggle on for months or even years trying to resolve this very difficult issue. Having gone through this experience I would advise anyone who wants to adopt a dog to consider one that has been in foster care where the dog has been observed in a home environment and any behavioural issues are usually apparent. Some shelters seem to be better than others at assessing a dog for separation anxiety and I should imagine that it is a difficult behaviour to recognise in a kennel environment. Hard decision and I feel for you having to make it - we don't ask to adopt a dog with "problems". Unfortunately some make their way into shelters because they have problems - its a lottery really.

[LizT]

I do KWYM but I think the shelter has a responsibility to assist the new owner rather than just saying to crate train the dog, advice that was given without a behavioural assessment. Crate training the dog may be the worst thing to do, who knows until an assessment is done?

I know if I was in this situation I would return the dog because I certainly would not have expected to deal with all these issues and I wouldn't want to deal with them.

If I had been warned about the behaviour and had taken the dog on knowing all the issues and had made an informed decision then of course I would work through the issues, but the OP was not told of them and now has to deal with a dog who I am sure has not met expectations.

dog fan, you may be right. Crate training would be a slow process for the older dog, as he could well take exception to it if left in for more than a short period. Both the OP and her husband work and really can only begin crate training during the evenings, and weekends. A time when they are already busy spending time with the dog with walks, games etc.

I know of an older dog that damaged his teeth and gums the first time he was left, unsupervised for a period of time in a crate.

This dog sounds like he will attempt a break out too.

Crate training is great, and will help but it is going to take time and they need some strategies now.

[LizT]

short term to stop escaping maybe see if a local kennel does day boarding, drop him/them off on way to work pick up after work?

I looked into three local possibilities - they are between $30 - $55 per day.

We are still reeling from the recent costs and just simply can't afford that atm

And no child care rebate.

[Dame Aussie]

I do KWYM but I think the shelter has a responsibility to assist the new owner rather than just saying to crate train the dog, advice that was given without a behavioural assessment. Crate training the dog may be the worst thing to do, who knows until an assessment is done?

I know if I was in this situation I would return the dog because I certainly would not have expected to deal with all these issues and I wouldn't want to deal with them.

If I had been warned about the behaviour and had taken the dog on knowing all the issues and had made an informed decision then of course I would work through the issues, but the OP was not told of them and now has to deal with a dog who I am sure has not met expectations.

Oh totally, if I was in the same situation as the OP and didn't have money for a trainer I would probably return the dog too...as much as it would break my heart.

That's the risk with shelter dogs.

[ruthless]

If he's following you around the house when you're home I'd put a stop to that. Teach him to lay on his mat and stay there.

[dee lee]

Having adopted a dog from a shelter myself who turned out to have SA I would say that it is better to return the dog within the first month rather than struggle on for months or even years trying to resolve this very difficult issue. Having gone through this experience I would advise anyone who wants to adopt a dog to consider one that has been in foster care where the dog has been observed in a home environment and any behavioural issues are usually apparent. Some shelters seem to be better than others at assessing a dog for separation anxiety and I should imagine that it is a difficult behaviour to recognise in a kennel environment. Hard decision and I feel for you having to make it - we don't ask to adopt a dog with "problems". Unfortunately some make their way into shelters because they have problems - its a lottery really.

Yep. Great post. I did the same thing with a dog who showed problem signs soon after adopting, I too perservered out of guilt and shame and hope. For 2 years and subsequent development of DA I tried hard but in the end she was PTS when I ran out of options. I wish desperately that I had bitten down my guilt and listened to my misgivings in the first week.

Kirsty79, if you are only keeping this dog out of guilt- don't. Your problems are only just beginning, do you really have the resources and ability to work on this dog. Just something to consider.

[Guest lavendergirl]

Having adopted a dog from a shelter myself who turned out to have SA I would say that it is better to return the dog within the first month rather than struggle on for months or even years trying to resolve this very difficult issue. Having gone through this experience I would advise anyone who wants to adopt a dog to consider one that has been in foster care where the dog has been observed in a home environment and any behavioural issues are usually apparent. Some shelters seem to be better than others at assessing a dog for separation anxiety and I should imagine that it is a difficult behaviour to recognise in a kennel environment. Hard decision and I feel for you having to make it - we don't ask to adopt a dog with "problems". Unfortunately some make their way into shelters because they have problems - its a lottery really.

Yep. Great post. I did the same thing with a dog who showed problem signs soon after adopting, I too perservered out of guilt and shame and hope. For 2 years and subsequent development of DA I tried hard but in the end she was PTS when I ran out of options. I wish desperately that I had bitten down my guilt and listened to my misgivings in the first week.

Kirsty79, if you are only keeping this dog out of guilt- don't. Your problems are only just beginning, do you really have the resources and ability to work on this dog. Just something to consider.

Yes - and I would also add just remember that the problems the dog has were not of your making. If you do decide to consult a behaviourist be prepared to spend many more hundreds of dollars and have a good talk to them about the likely success rate of their programs and be honest with yourself about the amount of work you are willing and able to put in. Good luck

[PuddleDuck]

Is the shelter close to you? If you do decide to go ahead and try a behaviourist, maybe talk to them about if they could take him as a day boarder, either for free or subsidized cost?

[Christina]

What happens to the dog if he goes back to the shelter ?

[ChristineX]

He's a young rottie cross, isn't he? I haunt the american rottweiller net quite a bit. They would say - the destruction could well be due to the fact that he didn't get that evening walk.

Their advice - would be more exercise, and training (and lots of it).

I'd suggest also to start training loose leash walking in the backyard first - also a firstrate sit next to you. Should make it also easier to teach him outside the house. I'd get in touch with your local dog club - you never know, they might be affordable, and even have a soft-touch of an instructor who may be willing to give you a home lesson or two to get you started.

If this dog ticks all the other boxes for you, I'd work on keeping up the exercise and training, and then take it week by week. (Including NILF and TOT, those are awesome programmes)

Oh yes, welcome to the world of 'interesting' dogs. It's a roller coaster of a ride!

[huck house]

Our rescue dogs were out of control when we got them a bit over a year ago. If I could post pictures you would see the destruction of a king size bed, leather lounge, chairs, feather down cushions , power cords etc etc...

They were both stressed out and had obviously never been indoor dogs before. We learnt the hard way, giving them too much too soon .

It took around six months for them to become secure and not worry that they will be bumped again. In the last six months ,they have developed impeccable manners around the house . It is as though they are calm enough to appreciate what they have . They still love to runamok and wreck things , but they know what is theirs ( I provide a lot of the things that have been suggested , show them what I got them , put toys in the crate , near food bowls, in the yard )

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that our household looked like a lost cause a year ago and people thought we were mad to persist. 2nd hand dogs (ours are 3rd and 4th)

are a challenge but when they blossom the reward is priceless.

Eric sounds like a dead set sweety ,he may end up being the best thing that ever happened to you guys and Pickles.

I'm not dismissing all the expert advice on here but things can workout for the best too. :)

[Greytmate]

I would contact the shelter immediately and ask for their help.

This dog is showing signs that it has a nervous temperament. If the shelter is an ethical organisation it will have access to professionals who can assess the dog properly.

There is a possibility that I am quite wrong and the dog simply needs more exercise and stimulation. But that is going to be very hard to do given the dogs age. Large breeds under 18 months shouldn't be given lots of lead walking, it's bad for their joints. If this is the case and the dog needs a lot more work, returning the dog is best so the dog gets the right home with somebody that wants a really active dog.

But if this dog has a nervy nature, the best you can hope for is years of managing the dog carefully so that it isn't in fear or a danger to itself or others. But if that can't be achieved then you will have a dog that isn't having a happy life.

This dog may have ended up homeless in the first place because it had problems.

You need help right now, before you invest too much time and the dog's behaviour worsens. The longer you leave it the harder it will get, this dog needs to be assessed as soon as possible.

[darlingdog]

I just wanted to pipe in with an example of what happened when we left my dogs inside the house once and went to work. My dogs don't have separation anxiety...

They are usually confined to the backyard when we go to work, but the previous night had been very stormy and was predicted to continue. Our older boy is storm phobic so we thought we'd leave both of them indoors for a day. I left them with Kongs and toys and both were exercised for an hour before we left.

I came home after 8 hours and I found...

Some serious furniture rearrangement, both dog beds, a beanbag, the rug, all been strategically moved to opposite ends of the house.

A bunch of magnets from the fridge on the floor, plus a few magnetic takeaway menus in a million tiny pieces all over the house.

Two wees on the carpet.

One of them had managed to pull an 8 pack of mini Coke bottles from the kitchen bench, still in the packaging... well, they were in the packaging until the dogs got to them. So I found 8 mini Coke bottles strewn over the house in various stages of chewedness... and the corresponding Coke all over the floor and carpet. I found 3 in our bedroom (one under the bed), 3 in the lounge room and 2 in the living room.

....

Over a year later they are finally getting back left-alone-in-house privileges for a few hours at a time.

I hope you are able to get some help as it sounds very stressful.

I am very sorry, I know this was serious BUT :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[soothie]

This may have already been suggested but with my dogs escaping when I was at work, I too was ripping my hair out with worry and invested in an electric fence. It cost around $230.00 and I have one dog wearing the collar. The others are fine and were only following the lead dog.

No trouble at all since then. It was fairly easy to install as well.

Some people may not agree with it but when you are desperate and unable to train fast enough this is a great solution. I know my boys are safe and the one wearing the collar knows his bounderies. It's a great relief for me being at work every day.

Electric Fence

Edited March 9, 2012 by soothie

[Saffioraire]

Ok so I've skimmed through and no-ones said this so far but it might be worth looking into means of medication. I don't mean doping him out of his brain, but there are things they can prescribe for immediate effect such as Valium which he will be weaned onto and off again, and longer term fixes such as Clomicalm.

Sometimes behavior therapy alone is not enough, and likewise drug therapy alone is not enough either. However if you use a very carefully applied plan of drugs and behavior therapy together you are most likely to get the best results.

The most extreme dog I've ever had DUG THROUGH A WALL of a mud brick house, and ate a door + all of the other lovely damage he did. When he went to his new home he was on Clomicalm and he became a treasured family pet. My two others have anxiety after coming through quarantine and with my second one I just popped him on clomicalm straight away to help with the settling in process. While many might be against me for this, it made his integration much more tolerable for HIM.

Alleviating his immediate stress may be enough, but a long term program would be wise. This helps him to evaluate his new home without the demons of his past controlling his every thought. I will also say that on both accounts with my import dogs the greatest improvement was actually seen after they came off a period on clomicalm.

[~Shepherd~]

Ok so I've skimmed through and no-ones said this so far but it might be worth looking into means of medication. I don't mean doping him out of his brain, but there are things they can prescribe for immediate effect such as Valium which he will be weaned onto and off again, and longer term fixes such as Clomicalm.

Sometimes behavior therapy alone is not enough, and likewise drug therapy alone is not enough either. However if you use a very carefully applied plan of drugs and behavior therapy together you are most likely to get the best results.

The most extreme dog I've ever had DUG THROUGH A WALL of a mud brick house, and ate a door + all of the other lovely damage he did. When he went to his new home he was on Clomicalm and he became a treasured family pet. My two others have anxiety after coming through quarantine and with my second one I just popped him on clomicalm straight away to help with the settling in process. While many might be against me for this, it made his integration much more tolerable for HIM.

Alleviating his immediate stress may be enough, but a long term program would be wise. This helps him to evaluate his new home without the demons of his past controlling his every thought. I will also say that on both accounts with my import dogs the greatest improvement was actually seen after they came off a period on clomicalm.

That is a lot of dogs to have used drugs on. Were they all under a care plan or did you self prescribe?

Edited March 9, 2012 by ~Shepherd~

[Greytmate]

I wouldn't have a dog on any of those drugs unless they were prescribed by a vet working in conjunction with a behaviourist with a long term management plan. The reason why nobody has suggested it is because the dog needs to be assessed first before anything like that would be considered.

If a dog is that bad that it needs that sort of medication it isn't really good enough to be called pet quality, and shouldn't have been sold as a pet.

[Saffioraire]

1331296577[/url]' post='5756995']

I wouldn't have a dog on any of those drugs unless they were prescribed by a vet working in conjunction with a behaviourist with a long term management plan. The reason why nobody has suggested it is because the dog needs to be assessed first before anything like that would be considered.

If a dog is that bad that it needs that sort of medication it isn't really good enough to be called pet quality, and shouldn't have been sold as a pet.

Clomicalm is only available from a Vet as antidepressant medication is only available via a doctor. It is not a repeat prescription and is re assed every 30 days before more medication will be prescribed (meaning you MUST revisit the vet every 30 days), so it is managed on a strict program in conjunction with a behaviourist. I did say that any good plan uses both in conjunction and not drugs alone.

Of course no one can suggest you just go and get drugs without assessment, however if behaviour methods used to treat anxiety are yeilding no results drugs are the next step. Neither valium nor clomicalm are available over the counter, neither from a vet nor a pharmacist and both require proper vet assessment.

ALL of the dogs I have used drugs on have spent the minimum amount of time on the medication, all with frequent vet assessments, all with terrific results and the pathway to recovery was not nearly as traumatic as it could have been if left untreated. An anxious dog who is willing to destroy it's own body to seek a refuge is under constant traumor even once the goal of getting inside is reached. To me that is far more traumatic to allow that to continue than to have a vet asses and percribe medication to allow for an easier transition.

This dog has already been placed as a pet, and the fact that it needs drugs does not make it unsuitable as a pet, it just requires a carefully managed plan from a Vet and a behaviourist to reach this outcome as a settled and content companion dog.

I do wish you all the best of luck.