Updated - He Has Got Worse

[kirsty79]

Hi all,

My partner and I adopted a dog from a shelter at the weekend. His name is Eric, thought to be a rotti cross and about 1 year old. We have a second dog, Pickles, who is a female 4 year old maltese cross.

We have a small doggie door but obviously due to Eric's size we decided to block the doggie door so both dogs would have full run of a large back yard whilst we are at work, plenty of undercover area and completely enclosed.

We arrived home yesterday to discover both dogs inside lounging on our sofa! Somehow Eric, a underweight but still 28kg dog had moved what we had blocked the door with and squeezed himself through the doggie flap. A couple of shoes had been nibbled on but that was the extent of the damage to the house. Eric was desexed only on the Friday just gone and had managed to tear his stitches during his escapades. Off to the vets we went. He was fitted with a elizabethan collar much to his disgust and off we went home.

Upon leaving this morning we popped the dogs outside again. We leaned a heavy spare door we had up against the back door with the doggie flap in it and then placed some heavy solid wood chairs against the first door.

My partner has just been home, and yet again Eric has made it inside. He has pushed the heavy chairs out of the way and somehow moved the door far enough at an angle to squeeze access to the doggie door. Then somehow, with the collar still on he has got through the doggie flap, collar still completely in tact. Looking at the size of him, the collar and the dog door this seems impossible but he has managed it! Thankfully he has done no further damage to his stitches, he did however get into the dog treat cupboard and eaten rather alot. Betting he is going to pay for that later!

Anyway, a large piece of timber is now nailed across the doggie flap.

My question is what could be the reason behind this behaviour? Is he trying to get in because he thinks we are inside? Could he just be bored? He hasn't done any damage outside? Because his stitches are healing at the moment he can only be taken for a gentle walk so he still has endless energy. He was a stray at the pound and saved by a shelter so we really don't know anything about his history. All I can tell you is he is extremely affectionate and sweet, follows us wherever we go but easily scared. He cowers if a voice is raised in any kind of way or if any sudden movements are made. He sleeps inside in our bedroom and appears to be fully housetrained.

Any suggestions or thoughts would be greatly appreciated. I feel a little out of my depth with this being my first big young dog. I don't honestly care about the furniture, shoes etc being damaged, I just worry he is going to hurt himself.

Edited March 8, 2012 by kirsty79

[kitkatswing]

I know I shouldnt giggle, but I got an image of him getting in the second time, if only you had a camera~!

Im sorry but I cant help with ideas!

[german_shep_fan]

If he was a stray he may of been used to living inside in his previous house? Hopefully someone who is very knowledgeable about separation anxiety ect will be able to help you out :)

P.S doesn't suprise me that your boy managed to fit through the door. When we were on holidays a few years ago my over 70cm 45kg shepherd managed to squeeze himself through the small to medium sized dog door to find us. I have no idea how he did it, must of squished himself down like a rat haha

[Dame Aussie]

It may be due to any of the things you mentioned, he would still be adjustingto his new house/life and it could just be a bit of anxiety due to that.

Now that you've nailed it over you should be right but I would just give it some time.

Are you planning on doing any training with him?

If you are, the trainer may be able to check him out and give you some ideas, if this keeps happening.

Sounds like he and Pickles are getting along famously! :)

[Dame Aussie]

If he was a stray he may of been used to living inside in his previous house? Hopefully someone who is very knowledgeable about separation anxiety ect will be able to help you out :)

P.S doesn't suprise me that your boy managed to fit through the door. When we were on holidays a few years ago my over 70cm 45kg shepherd managed to squeeze himself through the small to medium sized dog door to find us. I have no idea how he did it, must of squished himself down like a rat haha

I was also going to say this but forgot!! He may be used to living inside.

[Weasels]

Is it a problem to leave him inside? After putting away all shoes and securing the food of course If he's just going to sleep anyway.

Agree with German shep fan, I've seen my 23kg boy leap through a cat flap and barely touch the sides. He probably backed in if he still had his collar on :I

[persephone]

Now that you've nailed it over you should be right

maybe...

or maybe that he knows that he can get in ... and is obviously fairly desperate to do so , he may now try & scratch, knock ,bite at the door , or perhaps windows.

Hopefully he does not attempt to jump fences.

poor boy.. he sounds a bit frantic ... is he chipped in your name in case he does get out?

Must admit - I wouldn't be leaving a large unknown young dog unsupervised all day with a small one . Does she have somewhere that she can use to get away from him?

If you let us know whereabouts you live, we may recommend you a good trainer who can help you personally with this settling in time :)

[Greytmate]

Dogs can feel more secure in enclosed spaces. Maybe he felt anxious outside? He sounds like he is a bit of a nervy dog. I agree with Perseph, the danger is that if he is kept outside he may now really try to get into the house and hurt himself.

Some dogs are used to living in a kennel or under a patio or something, and your yard may feel really exposed in comparison. If you can provide a sense of enclosure outside it may be enough to satisfy the dog. I would also advise with getting help from a professional trainer if you are worried.

[kirsty79]

Haha! Believe me, I chuckle everytime I think of him pushing himself through it. He is such a big oaf and still rather uncoordinated, god only knows how he managed it! The second time I guess because of the cone on his head he must have gone bum first through the doggie flap. That on video would have been gold!

He and Pickles are outside whilst we are at work which is Monday to Thursday 8am till 5pm. My partner and I both work too far away from home to be able to go home and let them out during the day otheriwse I'd have no problem at all with them inside all day. But 9 hours would just be too long toilet wise. They are inside all of the rest of the time, so inside more than out if worked out.

I think some training must have been done with him before - he is housetrained and sits for his food and shakes. His pulling on the lead is horrendous though. I definitely want to do some training with him, he is a bit of a liability otherwise! Lol.

I was just worried that he is stressed or upset at us leaving him and really had no clue how to calm him down about it.

[megan_]

Are you able to put in a bigger dog door

[persephone]

I was just worried that he is stressed or upset at us leaving him and really had no clue how to calm him down about it.

Which is why we recommend you a trainer to come to your home and work with you ;)

[kirsty79]

I too was worried initially about leaving him alone with Pickles, thats why the doggie door was blocked on the first day by a heavy chair - so Pickles could go through the legs, through the flap and inside the house if she wanted to escape him. He kinda foiled that! :laugh: She is nervous around him due to his size but he is incredibly friendly and doesn't crowd her. It's like he senses she is nervous and just gives her some space. He just tries to give her the occasional lick on the nose.

He is chipped but still to the shelter - I'm sending the paperwork off this week to have my name on the chip. I too am petrified he might try to get out

I'm in Brisbane, about 20 mins south of the City and would be so grateful for any suggestions on trainers.

I also wondered whether such a large open space was perhaps freaking him out and that a smaller enclosed area might be better for him as more what he what possibly used to?

[Christina]

I had a similar experience some 30 years ago but the dog was inside & desperate to get out & find me. 6 months old when I got him. Lived in a barn on a farm & had never been out of it until I got him. He ate a hole in my back door & got out. It was huge. Started it near the handle, probably yanking on it & the wood split.

Temporary fix nailing a piece of wood over it was useless. One day I put the kitchen table against the door with a piano stool full of sheet music under it, very heavy, & 6 chairs on top of the table. All trashed & he got out again. In the end he was happy if I left him on the bed.

Maybe leave the dog inside, he will hurt himself if you continue to leave him out. He may be scared stiff in your yard.

I also would not leave a dog I had not had for long with the other one, especially given the size difference, It takes seconds for peace to explode & sometimes you may not know why. Get to know the dog first.

[mita]

All the nice smells that he associates with you, are inside. Especially on the sofa where you found him lounging happily first time he 'broke in'. That's where you sit....so it's on sofas & cushions where dogs smell their owners the strongest.

Same with other items that are handled a lot....or worn....by the owner. The owner's smell to a dog is like their being there. Your new doggie feels secure & safe inside where your scents are so strong.

That's why one of the main strategies for dogs with separation anxiety is to leave dogs with items that strongly have the owner's scent on them. Like, old unwashed T-shirts and toys and rugs the owner has rubbed hands (& feet!) all over......or sat on.

The positive thing is that your new doggie very much sees (smells!) you as his owner. He's not running away from you & your location. He's putting out so much energy in getting to you.....that is, where your smell is. And he's got good reason to want to stay near. He's learned from being in the Shelter, how awful it was not to have his own person there for him.

Can you have the dog-flap made to a size where the dogs can come and go during the day? Then your problems would be over. He's already shown he's perfectly happy spending time alone....but close to the sofa with all your strong scent which made him feel you were with him.

If that's not possible, is there some sheltered place outside, in an open shed or garage where you set up a day bed for the dogs.

And even have an old chair/sofa there that you sit on yourself sometimes (getting your scent onto it!)....& where the doggie can hop up on, when alone.

Put the same dog mat there, that he sleeps on at night beside your bed. So sitting on that mat during the day, gives him the same scent & sense of comfort that he has at night.

Also put on that 'day' spot, other items with your scent on (as described above). Also in these early days, a chewy treat that takes time to eat.

Make this day spot a 'good place' for the dog, by taking him there to get any treats or to have dinner.

Also, to take high emotion out of you going away & leaving him alone during the day.....ignore him for 10 minutes before you go. Then ignore for 10 minutes when you come home. Take no notice of any excitement or his wanting you to pat or talk with him.

Only when the 10 minutes are up.....tell him to 'Sit'.....then give him a pat.

Edited February 14, 2012 by mita

[persephone]

A very helpful post from mita :)

Also in these early days, a chewy treat that takes time to eat.

altho I have reservations about this , being there is a small dog also in the yard . I think adding a high value treat might not be ideal...

[mita]

A very helpful post from mita :)

Also in these early days, a chewy treat that takes time to eat.

altho I have reservations about this , being there is a small dog also in the yard . I think adding a high value treat might not be ideal...

Guess who once owned a Sheltie with severe separation anxiety! And had to get help from UQ vet clinic where a behaviourist explained why she ripped up the sunroom sofa cushions when we went out.

Our smell strong there....& Madam Sheltie ( a very dominant girl) was using the cushions to show how cranky she was at us for leaving her home alone.

Bless the OP's new boy, he's just sitting on the owner-smelly sofa for comfort....no sign of cranky destructiveness aimed at his owners' scent. (Only at the doggie door, to get to it!!).

I agree with your comment about not using a long-chewy treat, when there's a smaller dog also there.

Edited February 14, 2012 by mita

[persephone]

Guess who once owned a Sheltie with severe separation anxiety! And had to get help from UQ vet clinic where a behaviourist explained why she ripped up the sunroom sofa cushions when we went out.

:)

[ESCS]

If you are still looking for a trainer, Jane Harper (www.dogsontrack.com.au) is very good. I think she is from the southside (but not 100% sure as she came to us in the Western suburbs). She was recommended to us from this forum and has been very helpful with our anxious tibbie.

[WeimMe]

Maybe he could stay inside with the little dog outside until his stitches heal while you work with a trainer on strategies to get him to feel more confident outdoors if you really don't want him inside. All those trips to the vet must be adding up!

[kirsty79]

So, we made a giant doggie dog for Eric so he could come and go as he pleases, so he could be inside during the day where all our human smells were. The first day left alone he destroyed an expensive black leather ottoman in the lounge, chewed the dining room table and somehow opened the doggie food cupboard and ate the entire contents.

After that we sealed up the doggie door, spent ALOT of money on loads of various stimulating toys etc to keep him entertained, have been exercising him twice a day and he and Pickles have bonded fantastically. Bar a couple of holes dug in the back garden he has been as good as gold...... until yesterday.

My partner got home, pulled into the driveway, went to get out of the car and came face to face with Eric out the front of our house, next to the road. He looked in his rearview mirror and there was Pickles. He got them inside and went to investigate. It appears Eric has dug a hole by the side gate big enough for Pickles to squeeze under and he has scaled a raised part of our garden to assist him in clearing a six foot fence. In addition, our back door was pretty much completely torn apart and on its hinges.

So, in a nutshell, Eric is freaking out. I am petrified he is going to hurt himself. Following numerous vet appointments and other expenses in the past 4 weeks we have spent over $1200 on Eric. We are well and truly broke. A behaviourist is the obvious answer, and as soon as I have a few paychecks under my belt I will meet with one, but for the immediate future I need to know how best to cope with Eric and how to keep him (and Pickles) safe during the day.

Eric has all the classic signs of separation anxiety - he wimpers when we are going out, he is destructive, he follows us around the house, he is very demanding of attention.

Please can anyone suggest any immediate action I can take? The vet nurse suggested crating, but that is a longer process.I need a short term solution in the meantime. My partner and I work monday - friday 8am-5pm and unfortunately have no friends or family in the vacinity that don't work the same as us or could pop in during the day to check on them.

I am desperate and tearing my hair out

Thanks :)