LizT Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 Greymate does have extensive experience and her being able to read behaviour was critical in her job. It would be irresponsible not to point out to the OP that she misread the cues of the dogs at the park. Imagine how horrible it would be if this wasn't pointed out to her and her puppy was injured or killed. I know I have learned a lot from others on DOL so why not share the knowledge to make dog ownership better for new people. Yes, experts are there when we feel we need that extra help or cannot cope in a situation that is out of our league. Interestingly I was listening to an radio story the other week about our overuse of "experts" in this society and our inability to raise our own children without professional help on even the most mundane of issues. Certainly there is something to be learnt from just about everyone we meet in our lives. Many would credit Caesar Milan as an expert but he would be the first to tell you his best credentials have come from his life experiences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think when there is almost universal agreement on the interpretation of a behaviour from people with varying levels of expertise then it's safe to say you don't need a professional :laugh: It's like when you watch funniest home videos and you see a dog on the edge but no one there understands what is about to happen, at least here we can educate those who don't yet know all the dog behavioural cues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I think when there is almost universal agreement on the interpretation of a behaviour from people with varying levels of expertise then it's safe to say you don't need a professional :laugh: It's like when you watch funniest home videos and you see a dog on the edge but no one there understands what is about to happen, at least here we can educate those who don't yet know all the dog behavioural cues. Yes, you can see that "nose tweak" coming!!! (re. 'funny' home videos) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm so disappointed with how this thread has ended up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoStoNmAdNeSs Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm so disappointed with how this thread has ended up In my humble opinion, the thread went a bit south NOT because some dared to expand on the original topic, but because some started ranting and carrying on because others dared to opine. And the comment about "Troy ending it now? Christ, spare me the dramatics. The thread doesnt need to be closed or deleted. The OP DOES have a bit to learn and some of the points about the PB's behaviour were very very concerning and I applaud those that highlighted it...even though there is a bit of grand standing going on now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I'm so disappointed with how this thread has ended up In my humble opinion, the thread went a bit south NOT because some dared to expand on the original topic, but because some started ranting and carrying on because others dared to opine. And the comment about "Troy ending it now? Christ, spare me the dramatics. The thread doesnt need to be closed or deleted. The OP DOES have a bit to learn and some of the points about the PB's behaviour were very very concerning and I applaud those that highlighted it...even though there is a bit of grand standing going on now. Yes, my comment wasn't supporting either side, I think both have been over the top in this thread and caused it's demise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoStoNmAdNeSs Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 didnt mean to infer you were Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 didnt mean to infer you were Didn't mean to infer that you inferred! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkabull Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 I just showed that video of the dogs playing at the park to my husband, who prior to meeting me had very little to do with dogs. I asked him what he thought and he commented that he was worried that the smaller dogs and pups could have been easily injured by the larger dogs (accidently, in play) and he wouldn't have been comfortable with it if it was our pup based on that. I asked him if he noticed anything in the brown dogs behavior and he did not. I, however was very uncomfortable with the brown dogs 'play' and would not have let my dog/pup remain there playing with it. I often see dogs 'playing' in ways that make me uncomfortable and so many owners don't see anything wrong with it because they think their dog is being 'friendly'. I once knew a dog who used to 'guard' puppies and small dogs from other dogs. Everyone thought is was cute and sweet of her. One of their other dogs had a litter of pups and when the pups were around 7 weeks old the bitch who was always 'guarding and protecting' the pups mauled one of the puppies. The owner had a hell of a time getting this bitch to release the pup as she was so intent on killing it. Everyone was so surprised that she did this and couldn't see that her behavior had never been cute or playful, but a disaster waiting to happen. Never think of dogs behavior from a human perspective - it is rarely right and could end horribly. Personally I would never let any pup of mine play with a dog I didn't know, owned by a person I didn't know that was so much larger and take their word for it that they were 'friendly', regardless of breed. Oh, puppy that was attacked, although badly injured, did survive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 15, 2012 Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Can I just say that I don't think Bella's pup was fearful. He/she showed submissive behaviour when stood over by a larger dog displaying dominance - a completely appropriate response by a baby puppy in such circumstances but one I'd be hoping wasn't constantly triggered in a dog park. Baby puppies shouldn't have to spend their offlead time being constantly chased, bowled and dominated by other dogs. If I wanted a recipe for developed fear aggression, I'd be hard pressed to do better. Bella - two suggestions about dog parks: * If you were sitting on the ground when the Lab came over, all I can say is this is a very unwise position to adopt in such place. Firstly, you can't react quickly if something happens - indeed, it puts your face right in the line of any aggression. Secondly, you run a very real risk of having a warm stream of urine deposited down your back. Stay on your feet inside the dog park. Personally I don't think such places should have seating at all. * I suggest you take Bella's harness off in offlead dog parks. Dogs often like to wrestle in play and it constitutes a catch hazard. I'd hate to see it hurt another dog's jaw or for Bella to be tangled up in it. Of course, I must qualify my advice by saying I have never owned a CKCS, nor have I had a dog pee down my back.;) Full credit to Labrador owners by the way for not concluding that a less than gushing comment about their beloved breed constituted a reason to launch a full scale war on the poster. Most of uslknow that there is good and bad in every breed. I still see at least one poster persisting in her assertion that socialisation and training will make any dog of any breed a gentle and happy soul in all situations. If only it were true. Edited February 15, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) There are good dogs and bad dogs in any breed. It is always nice to hear of good experiences with restricted breeds as they often receive a lot of undeserved negative media attention. However, please be careful with who you let bella play with. She did not seem to be enjoying playing with the larger dog who kept chasing her down only to then stand over her.. She did seem to have fun interacting with the other Cav a lot though Also, there are certain risks involved with letting a small breed puppy play with a large 30kg dog. Let me assure you it REALLY hurts when a 30kg dog runs over you- even if they meant it only in fun. I only let my 30kg dog play certain games with small puppies eg. tug or bitey face with my large dog lying down. I would not let her engage in chasing games with a small puppy or dog as she could injure them accidently by running over them and it can also stimulate prey drive. I saw an incident a few days ago where a tiny CKCS puppy was engulfed in the mouth of a young viszla . I think it was just a play behaviour or even a retrieving behaviour and to be totally honest, I don't really blame the older dog as the puppy looked remarkably similar to a guinea pig or similar small prey animal. This really scared the puppy and their owners, but luckily no harm was done, because as I said before, it was done in a playful way. Of course the older dogs owner should have had better control over their dog as well, but that is the risk with dog parks. ETA= Bella is extremely cute!!! Edited February 16, 2012 by aussielover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keira&Phoenix Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Some of Phi's best friends are Cavaliers. Good to hear a nice report :) Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geo Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Whoa big thread.. i wonder if all the advice about playing with bigger dogs, dog behavior opinions etc.. would've been mentioned if the thread was, "my cav just had great fun with a Lab". The thread would've been about a page long of "oh that's nice" comments... However advice about large dogs, behaviors et al are all really important issues and applicable in any conversation regarding dog ownership, and not only applicable to pitbulls. Sometimes people forget that pitbulls are just dogs and owners of other breeds don't realise that their dog is a dog like the rest and you can guarantee it will behave like a dog so you better learn how to deal with it, large or small they all need appropriate training. Yes some pitties are hard to handle, others are pretty easy... same as all dogs. It comes down to sooooo many things and responsible owners should be aware of them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Whoa big thread.. i wonder if all the advice about playing with bigger dogs, dog behavior opinions etc.. would've been mentioned if the thread was, "my cav just had great fun with a Lab". The thread would've been about a page long of "oh that's nice" comments... However advice about large dogs, behaviors et al are all really important issues and applicable in any conversation regarding dog ownership, and not only applicable to pitbulls. Sometimes people forget that pitbulls are just dogs and owners of other breeds don't realise that their dog is a dog like the rest and you can guarantee it will behave like a dog so you better learn how to deal with it, large or small they all need appropriate training. Yes some pitties are hard to handle, others are pretty easy... same as all dogs. It comes down to sooooo many things and responsible owners should be aware of them all. Um, yes??? If the OP had triggered a bunch of Lab fanciers to suggest that all Labs were gentle dogs that were entirely appropriate playmates for toy breed baby puppies I'd have offered some cautions. At the risk of bringing yet another group of breed fanciers down on my head (again). I'd have suggested that some caution was warranted with a breed that can have a very full on play style and that sometimes tend to think body slamming other dogs at speed is an absolute hoot. Maybe I should just learn to shut the hell up and let people do things with their dogs that I think are potentially dangerous. I'm sure I'd be a lot more popular around here but I'm not sure I'd sleep as well. I kept my mouth shut once for fear of drawing the wrath (again) of the rescue folk here after a few lively 'discussions' and a pup died as a result. So my list of detractors has expanded (again) but my conscience is clear . Edited February 16, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnil444 Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Your posts have been balanced, educational and sensible Telida. It's been refreshing to read them. Thanks for bringing that to the forum. Shame about all the dickheads who can't read, don't want to learn, and only come here to entertain themselves by beating others up. I don't know what the solution to that is as they overun this forum lately. If you use ignore for all the idiots, there will be nothing left to read... I agree Kasey - Telida has been balanced and educational and I totally agree with the comments. The comments Telida are stating are not just for the APBT, they are for all breeds. I also like the point about people having these restricted breeds, but still happily taking them to public places. If you want to own a restricted breed, great, but there is an added huge responsibility to go with that ownership - every council has its own laws on owning a restricted breed and these people breaking those rules should be reported as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greytmate Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Whoa big thread.. i wonder if all the advice about playing with bigger dogs, dog behavior opinions etc.. would've been mentioned if the thread was, "my cav just had great fun with a Lab". The thread would've been about a page long of "oh that's nice" comments... However advice about large dogs, behaviors et al are all really important issues and applicable in any conversation regarding dog ownership, and not only applicable to pitbulls. Sometimes people forget that pitbulls are just dogs and owners of other breeds don't realise that their dog is a dog like the rest and you can guarantee it will behave like a dog so you better learn how to deal with it, large or small they all need appropriate training. Yes some pitties are hard to handle, others are pretty easy... same as all dogs. It comes down to sooooo many things and responsible owners should be aware of them all. It doesn't matter what breed the brown dog was, the behaviour was concerning and Bellackcs was misinterpreting the behaviour. If somebody had posted that any strange dog was being 'protective' of their own dog, I would have had the same concerns. It wasn't until the video was posted that we could see that the brown dog wasn't being playful or gentle with the cav. Hopefully the thread has been useful and has inspired people to learn what the different postures mean and how their dogs might really feel, rather than assume that a dog is thinking like a human would think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwp4me Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hmm, oh dear! http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koalathebear Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) On the positive side, I do think pitties are beautiful dogs. OH and I have made videos for a few rescues - I do the videos and he takes the photos. Some photos below of dogs that have been rehomed here in the ACT. Scarlet The lovely Delta (her video) Edited February 16, 2012 by koalathebear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hmm, oh dear! http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php I hope you're not posting that as an example of truth? The woman who writes that blog is well known to have no qualifications and has a personal vendetta against pit bulls. She also doesn't use stats correctly. She is also a nutcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melzawelza Posted February 16, 2012 Share Posted February 16, 2012 Hmm, oh dear! http://www.dogsbite.org/dangerous-dogs-pit-bull-myths.php I hope you're not posting that as an example of truth? The woman who writes that blog is well known to have no qualifications and has a personal vendetta against pit bulls. She also doesn't use stats correctly. She is also a nutcase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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