mymatejack Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What i really wonder is how many of the keyboard warriors here would actually have proper control of their own dogs? This keyboard warrior doesn't and has freely admitted so. As such, my dog doesn't get the opportunity to be off leash at the beach. Going back to something you said earlier, why should someone have to stop at the entrance to an offleash area and wait for you to leash/control your dog? I don't really mean that but that is exactly the holier than thou attitude that a lot of people on this thread are coming out with, and that was the point of my post(i.e not an attack on you directly) p.s where i live there are no fenced in off leash area's that i'm aware of - not that i'd take my dog to one of them anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What i really wonder is how many of the keyboard warriors here would actually have proper control of their own dogs? This keyboard warrior doesn't and has freely admitted so. As such, my dog doesn't get the opportunity to be off leash at the beach. Going back to something you said earlier, why should someone have to stop at the entrance to an offleash area and wait for you to leash/control your dog? I don't really mean that but that is exactly the holier than thou attitude that a lot of people on this thread are coming out with, and that was the point of my post(i.e not an attack on you directly) p.s where i live there are no fenced in off leash area's that i'm aware of - not that i'd take my dog to one of them anyways Because we're grown ups who can communicate and, I assume, have the best interest of our dogs at heart. There will never be a black and white, 100% effective rule that works for everyone in every situation so we have to rely on owners knowing our dogs, communicating and respecting what others say. I would much much rather someone ask me to wait before entering a park for them to leash their dog than have them say nothing and there then to be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Re the OP, it sounds like an unfortunate situation where neither dogs nor owners acted in the "right" way and unfortunately a problem arose. Sometimes we learn the hard way and hopefully both owners will think more in future. It's impossible to say exactly what should have been done in the situation without having been there but clearly the dogs should not have been within reach of each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermoore Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 My dog lived in racing kennels until she was almost 4, in the time we have had her it obvious that she is still learning how to be a dog. She mimics what other dogs do,if a dog barks at her she barks back, I am particularly concerned how the attack will affect her... With regard to this forum I am unsure how some have reached the conclusion that my dog was out of control. The dog that attacked her had acted aggressively toward my dog prior to the attack, the owner almost needed to sit on it to restrain it. As I stated in my post I acknowledge that I have contributed to the situation, my dog did not run toward the large aggressive dog, she ran in its general vicinity and when the aggressor dog barked my dog responded by also barking, this resulted in the large bull terrier type dog becoming uncontrollable, even if the lead had not broken I'm not sure the owner would have been able to prevent the attack. My dog being off its leashed resulted in it being exposed to danger and I need to take responsibility for that, but additionally after witnessing what the aggressor dog did can I ethically ignore it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simply Grand Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I guess many of us see a dog being under effective control as a dog that you can get to your side when required, through either verbal or physical methods. Under control also means that you can stop your dog approaching another dog/animal/person, especially an on lead dog and especially (for your dog's sake) a dog displaying aggression. I agree that it isn't acceptable for a dog to cause serious harm to another dog in its vicinity but the only thing you can control is yourself and your own dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emgem Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 If the dog was simply running by and the other dog broke its leash and attacked I would agree with you. The little the OP has said did however state that her dog was barking and carrying on in response to the leashed dog. This act on its own would have escalated the situation and indicates the dog was not simply running past, minding its own business. Right but if you read the post. The dog didn't run up to the attacking dog and start barking. It was running, the other dog was aggressive, her dog barked and the other dog broke its lead and attacked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m-sass Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 My dog lived in racing kennels until she was almost 4, in the time we have had her it obvious that she is still learning how to be a dog. She mimics what other dogs do,if a dog barks at her she barks back, I am particularly concerned how the attack will affect her... With regard to this forum I am unsure how some have reached the conclusion that my dog was out of control. The dog that attacked her had acted aggressively toward my dog prior to the attack, the owner almost needed to sit on it to restrain it. As I stated in my post I acknowledge that I have contributed to the situation, my dog did not run toward the large aggressive dog, she ran in its general vicinity and when the aggressor dog barked my dog responded by also barking, this resulted in the large bull terrier type dog becoming uncontrollable, even if the lead had not broken I'm not sure the owner would have been able to prevent the attack. My dog being off its leashed resulted in it being exposed to danger and I need to take responsibility for that, but additionally after witnessing what the aggressor dog did can I ethically ignore it? I think you answered your own question IMHO, being off leash does expose a dog to danger whether that be attacked by another dog or hit by a car, if you allow a dog to run around in public off leash it's vulnerable to an array of bad experiences and to avoid that, keep the dog on leash in future is my recommendation. Having said that, the leash breaking on the attacking dog means the dog was at large and not under effective control when the injuries took place where I think the owner of the attacking dog would be seen as in the wrong in this case. But as I asked before, do you know who owns the other dog, if not put it down to experience and hope the other owner gets a decent leash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hi petermoore. :) My understanding is that if your dog has injuries that require Veterinary intervention as a result of another dog biting it then you are able to make a claim on the owner of the dog who inflicted them to pay your costs. I won't go into the reasons for the liability of the other party at this time, as time doesn't allow. I am sorry to here about your rescue dog suffering injuries. Px Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boronia Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 How is she this morning Petermoore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Hi petermoore. :) My understanding is that if your dog has injuries that require Veterinary intervention as a result of another dog biting it then you are able to make a claim on the owner of the dog who inflicted them to pay your costs. I won't go into the reasons for the liability of the other party at this time, as time doesn't allow. I am sorry to here about your rescue dog suffering injuries. Px Then there's this little thing called contributary negligence. So, the OP notices that there's a dog that whose owner is struggling to control it (new info since first post) but he/she lets their dog do flybys on it and the grey gets so close that the other dog breaks its lead and manages to grab the OPs dog that holds a considerable speed advantage. How close did she get we wonder?? Petermore, allowing your dog to do zoomies around a dog whose owner was struggling to control it wasn't the wisest possible move. No way did your girl deserve to be attacked abd I am glad that you can see that you had a role to play in this. Coincidentally, it doesn't matter that your dog is a rescue, or still learning to be a dog. You are totally responsible for her behaviour and if anything, you should be MORE cautious about letting her run with strange dogs. Sighthounds sheer speed can arouse all kinds of responses in other dogs - some predatory, some others you really don't want to be triggering. In future, I'd suggest you only run her with dogs you know or when the beach is deserted. If she is sound after her race career you might want to think about taking her lure coursing - you'll meet lots of sighthound owners who can provide running partners for your dog that 'speak' her body language and have the same play style. 20/20 hindsight I know but these kinds of incidents can be prevented and sadly, it's up to us to keep our dogs safe because we can't rely on other dogs owners as you've just found out. Edited February 13, 2012 by Telida Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 The conclusion that your dog was out of control stems from the fact you didn't call it back when you saw the other dog getting agitated, either you chose not to, or had no recall........not in control Exactly the same thing happened to someone i know, pie offlead, akita onlead, held by young boy who couldn't hold it, akita ripped apart pie. Pie owner couldn't see why his dog was to blame, even though he was an entire boy who had dominant body language, i knew this dog well. Pie died later . Its upto us to protect our dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 ..this why my dog is usually on a long line ... the faster his legs go, the less his ears work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCheekyMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) My dog lived in racing kennels until she was almost 4, in the time we have had her it obvious that she is still learning how to be a dog. She mimics what other dogs do,if a dog barks at her she barks back, I am particularly concerned how the attack will affect her... With regard to this forum I am unsure how some have reached the conclusion that my dog was out of control. The dog that attacked her had acted aggressively toward my dog prior to the attack, the owner almost needed to sit on it to restrain it. As I stated in my post I acknowledge that I have contributed to the situation, my dog did not run toward the large aggressive dog, she ran in its general vicinity and when the aggressor dog barked my dog responded by also barking, this resulted in the large bull terrier type dog becoming uncontrollable, even if the lead had not broken I'm not sure the owner would have been able to prevent the attack. My dog being off its leashed resulted in it being exposed to danger and I need to take responsibility for that, but additionally after witnessing what the aggressor dog did can I ethically ignore it? You being within very close proximity of your dog would have prevented this situation escalating to what it did, If I was to see a reactive dog from a distance and my dog bolting up to its general direction (if this was ever a scenario i encountered) my immediate reaction with no question would be to steer my dog in the complete opposite direction but by the sounds of it you were nowhere near your dog to do such a thing..... and your dog it not "out of control" but you obviously had no control over your dog or the situation.... now there are 2 innocent dogs whom the future is a little rocky for atm (I will call the other dog innocent because up until this point we have no idea that it has reacted violently to another dog or being), I hope you have learn something from this experience... Edited February 13, 2012 by GussysMum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whippetsmum Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I hope Peter's Grey makes a full recovery- mentally and physically. It would have been a shock for all concerned. In the interests in independent arbitration, Peter should report it to council. Depending on our own experiences we will all have different opinions, that's the human way, and that's why it should be up to an independent arbitor- e.g. council, the court system. Hopefully the investigator will be thorough and gather all the facts and make recommendations if need be for both dogs and both sets of owners. What I am genuiinely interested in from a behavioural point of view, is this: Is there a power imbalance when one dog's off lead and another is off lead? If so, is this always the case? Is it a hardwired evolutionary behaviour for a dog's protective system to be prepped if they are on lead and another dog is off leash and approaching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCheekyMonster Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 What I am genuiinely interested in from a behavioural point of view, is this: Is there a power imbalance when one dog's off lead and another is off lead? If so, is this always the case? Is it a hardwired evolutionary behaviour for a dog's protective system to be prepped if they are on lead and another dog is off leash and approaching? Thats actually a good question.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trishm Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I am so sorry your beautiful greyhound has suffered terrible injuries, I hope she heals well both physically and mentally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corrie Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 Hope your dog is doing OK today. And you...It must have been frightening seeing her getting attacked. I have had occasions with my dogs where I was over confident or not diligent enough. I am very careful these days. You live and you learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petermoore Posted February 13, 2012 Author Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I appreciate most of the comments posted here. I believe I erred in my original post by asking advice regarding who is at fault. It was a mistake to create the debate that has happened here. I have learned from this incident and I am pleased to let those who are concerned know that my greyhound seems to be recovering. She has 2 large gashes and 10 puncture wounds that required stitching and temporary drains. She still seems to be in enourmous pain and finds it impossible to walk up steps, I will take her back to the vet tomorrow. I know who the owner of the other dog is, a friend of a friend, and from all reports they are reasonable people my intention at this stage is to contact them toward the end of the week and discuss what happened. Edited February 13, 2012 by petermoore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 I'm glad you came back :) Debate? on D O L ? LOL! It's what happens - Hopefully your girl will feel more comfortable as the days pass .. she probably has a heap of bruising etc which will be making her very sore . Sounds like absolute rest is the ideal ... poor girl Glad you know of the other dog owners, and are going to speak with them. I hope you have photos etc , just in case you need proof of stuff at some stage . best of luck with it all... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddy Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) What i really wonder is how many of the keyboard warriors here would actually have proper control of their own dogs? I have greyhounds and they are leashed and muzzled at all times in public. This is for their own safety- recall is difficult to train reliably in sighthounds and if they ran off and got hurt, I would consider that to be my fault. And to be blunt here.. I think your comment was pretty inappropriate anyway and only intended to get a rise out of the people you disagreed with. It doesn't matter what other people are doing, the OP made a bad choice, his dog suffered the consequences, end of story. Edited February 14, 2012 by Hardy's Angel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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