Sydney Abbatoir Closed For Cruelty

[melzawelza]

Another one is www.humanechoice.com (maybe .au as well?)

[WoofnHoof]

Good point. I should have but it didn't occur to me. I was still in bed half-asleep when I read it (ie. 5.50am).

I think it's an important discussion and you wouldnt get enough traffic up in the cruelty subforum but Kirislin is highly sensitive to stuff like this as are others so I'm not sure how you'd get around it.

Woof, you say surveillance cameras wouldnt work. I disagree - I doubt that piglet would have been treated like that if the mongrel knew cameras were trained on him and he would suffer a huge fine, docked pay and/or sacking. I dont think it matters where abbattoir workers come from or what they're education level is when it comes to hitting them in the hip pocket.

You can't sack everyone abattoirs have enough trouble keeping staff as it is if you fine the workers they will leave, fining the abattoir doesn't necesarily mean anything will change they need to make more fundamental changes in order to for them to last. Fines are also reliant on enforcement from external regulators which is patchy at best, you can provide all the stunners in the world if the handlers are unskilled in their use and the importance of correct usage then it means nothing.

Education of workers has shown signficant improvements in their treatment of animals, when they are educated about the animals, their behaviour and their intelligence the workers have more respect for the animals and as a result their treatment of them improves. So education needs to go hand in hand with enforcement because on it's own enforcement won't change anything if they don't understand what they are doing and why they are doing it.

[raz]

So education needs to go hand in hand with enforcement

Yep totally agree. So much money was spent on what happened in Indonesia to get it up to scratch but looks like nothing happened here in the same regard. That's totally ridiculous.

[Mags]

Doesn't surprise me at all as its been going on for a very long time. Thirty years ago I was on a tour of an abbatoir and saw workers being incredible cruel in front of the people I was with so do not think cameras alone will work. Was very shocked that most just stood there and let it happen and I was told to be quiet when I made a fuss as the 2 guys involved might loss their job - seriously didn't care as I could not just stand there - foreman came to see what was happening and stopped it and sent the guys elsewhere. Most sickening part was the glee they were showing. Cameras will allow abbatoirs to target workers that can do with better animal handling skills and that would be a huge improvement. Also think some of the race and pen designs could be significantly improved to allow better movement of stock. Cameras would also allow those that just should not be left in control of anything that they can inflict pain on and get them out the door or in an ideal world get them the help they need.

[Jumabaar]

I now eat meat as long as its free range. I figured in the end I was making more of a difference by still keeping my money in the industry but funneling it towards what I want them to do, rather than remove it completely.

This- I am more than happy to support farmers and meat and livestock australia while they are trying to make things work. (Just the same as I support ethical breeders and still buy pups). I am another who won't give up meat and I am not ashamed about it. I do follow the research being done in this area because it was maybe is an area that I am interested in working. Where were the vets when all this was happening btw??

[WoofnHoof]

So education needs to go hand in hand with enforcement

Yep totally agree. So much money was spent on what happened in Indonesia to get it up to scratch but looks like nothing happened here in the same regard. That's totally ridiculous.

This topic has come up on one of the horse forums I'm on too there are some people who are familiar with the Prohand education programs that have been developed by the AWSC and I think it would be good to expand this to include more species and perhaps incorporate it as part of a minimum qualification/training for abattoir workers, that would go a long way to improving both conditions for the animals and the cultural perceptions about animal welfare in the industry as well.

Mags Temple Grandin's research has shown signficant welfare issues associated with handling facility designs and has made her living designing better facilities, I think there are minimum standards for new facilities but it would be nice to see grants offered for upgrades to existing facilities as well.

[WoofnHoof]

I now eat meat as long as its free range. I figured in the end I was making more of a difference by still keeping my money in the industry but funneling it towards what I want them to do, rather than remove it completely.

This- I am more than happy to support farmers and meat and livestock australia while they are trying to make things work. (Just the same as I support ethical breeders and still buy pups). I am another who won't give up meat and I am not ashamed about it. I do follow the research being done in this area because it was maybe is an area that I am interested in working. Where were the vets when all this was happening btw??

If they are anything like the onsite vet at the abattoir I worked at they were probably in their office reading the paper..

[raz]

I think there are minimum standards for new facilities but it would be nice to see grants offered for upgrades to existing facilities as well.

Unfortunately I think those grants probably all went to upgrading Indonesian abbattoirs while everyone here was screaming after last year's Animals Australia hysterics that it doesnt happen in Australian abbattoirs. This is a case of - It doesnt happen in our backyard - and while people were pointing the finger elsewhere, it all got pushed under the carpet here. Political brownie points at the time and it will all come home to roost now.

[Dame Aussie]

I think there are minimum standards for new facilities but it would be nice to see grants offered for upgrades to existing facilities as well.

Unfortunately I think those grants probably all went to upgrading Indonesian abbattoirs while everyone here was screaming after last year's Animals Australia hysterics that it doesnt happen in Australian abbattoirs. This is a case of - It doesnt happen in our backyard - and while people were pointing the finger elsewhere, it all got pushed under the carpet here. Political brownie points at the time and it will all come home to roost now.

Yes, it's too easy to concentrate on what people in other countries are doing wrong, and tell ourselves it isn't like that over here.

[Greytmate]

I think this latest evidence has made up my mind. I am going to give up meat.

Good luck. I've tried and can't.

I feel so empty and hungry unless I eat some sort of animal flesh and I'm afraid subsitutes like tofu etc. just don't cut it.

That just the eating habits you have slipped into. If you put as much effort into buying and preparing quality vegetables and other ingredients as you do meat, you would find them satisfying. Instead you eat a big lump of meat , and then garnish it with a small amount of boiled-up frozen veges. (that's what you describe here)

If you ate a good vege dish, like a well-made vege lasagne, you wouldn't miss the meat as much. If you ate more vegetables and better vegetables, you would get used to that way of eating and wouldn't have to rely on meat so much.

Edited February 10, 2012 by Greytmate

[WoofnHoof]

I think there are minimum standards for new facilities but it would be nice to see grants offered for upgrades to existing facilities as well.

Unfortunately I think those grants probably all went to upgrading Indonesian abbattoirs while everyone here was screaming after last year's Animals Australia hysterics that it doesnt happen in Australian abbattoirs. This is a case of - It doesnt happen in our backyard - and while people were pointing the finger elsewhere, it all got pushed under the carpet here. Political brownie points at the time and it will all come home to roost now.

I don't see it that way, it is necessary to try to address both, we have a responsibility to our animals whether they are slaughtered here or elsewhere. The main difference is that it shouldn't happen here as we have codes of practice and animal welfare laws specifically pertaining to the slaughter of animals, whether they get followed and enforced is of course a different story. At the time we didn't have any rights pertaining to the treatment of our animals offshore and while it's likely that we still don't I think it's all part of the gradual erosion of ignorance of the general public as to what it really takes to get meat on the table.

I don't think anyone who has worked in an abattoir is denying that things aren't all butterflies and sunshine no matter where it is but some facilities are better equipped and managed than others and so they need to set the standard for the rest to follow. In some plants it is the buyers who dictate the standard, I don't know if it has been adopted in Australia but in the US McDonalds conducts audits for their suppliers based on Grandin's guidelines and if the performance drops below a certain level they will suspend receival of product until the standard is brought up to acceptable levels. It's a useful incentive and one which should compliment education ideally.

[melzawelza]

I think this latest evidence has made up my mind. I am going to give up meat.

Good luck. I've tried and can't.

I feel so empty and hungry unless I eat some sort of animal flesh and I'm afraid subsitutes like tofu etc. just don't cut it.

That just the eating habits you have slipped into. If you put as much effort into buying and preparing quality vegetables and other ingredients as you do meat, you would find them satisfying. Instead you eat a big lump of meat , and then garnish it with a small amount of boiled-up frozen veges. (that's what you describe here)

If you ate a good vege dish, like a well-made vege lasagne, you wouldn't miss the meat as much. If you ate more vegetables and better vegetables, you would get used to that way of eating and wouldn't have to rely on meat so much.

This. You can't eat the same when vegetarian and just take the meat out. I know a few people that would do that. Family eating meat burritos and they'd just have a burrito with salad and cheese. WTF.

You do need to cook differently and you can't rely on the standard 'Meat and 3 veg'. You need to learn to hide veggies and tofu through things to bulk it out. Making a veggie chilli? Of course lots of beans but also grate a heap of carrots, capsicum, zucchini through. Add a tin of lentils on top of that. Then you start to really bulk out your food with nutrition and you will start to feel full.

[samoyedman]

I think this latest evidence has made up my mind. I am going to give up meat.

Good luck. I've tried and can't.

I feel so empty and hungry unless I eat some sort of animal flesh and I'm afraid subsitutes like tofu etc. just don't cut it.

That just the eating habits you have slipped into. If you put as much effort into buying and preparing quality vegetables and other ingredients as you do meat, you would find them satisfying. Instead you eat a big lump of meat , and then garnish it with a small amount of boiled-up frozen veges. (that's what you describe here)

If you ate a good vege dish, like a well-made vege lasagne, you wouldn't miss the meat as much. If you ate more vegetables and better vegetables, you would get used to that way of eating and wouldn't have to rely on meat so much.

I confess you've described me to a T.

The thing is I crave meat (or is it the fat?). And chicken and fish. I really enjoy eating animal flesh.

I don't find veges and all the protein substitutes for meat anywhere near as tasty or fulfilling and they're so much more work to prepare compared to (example) chucking a steak in the pan.

[melzawelza]

I think this latest evidence has made up my mind. I am going to give up meat.

Good luck. I've tried and can't.

I feel so empty and hungry unless I eat some sort of animal flesh and I'm afraid subsitutes like tofu etc. just don't cut it.

That just the eating habits you have slipped into. If you put as much effort into buying and preparing quality vegetables and other ingredients as you do meat, you would find them satisfying. Instead you eat a big lump of meat , and then garnish it with a small amount of boiled-up frozen veges. (that's what you describe here)

If you ate a good vege dish, like a well-made vege lasagne, you wouldn't miss the meat as much. If you ate more vegetables and better vegetables, you would get used to that way of eating and wouldn't have to rely on meat so much.

I confess you've described me to a T.

The thing is I crave meat (or is it the fat?). And chicken and fish. I really enjoy eating animal flesh.

I don't find veges and all the protein substitutes for meat anywhere near as tasty or fulfilling and they're so much more work to prepare compared to (example) chucking a steak in the pan.

I don't blame you. I bloody love meat too. I really miss lamb and beef, but I've yet to find somewhere that can guarantee me that the animals have lived their lives completely on pastures and not be finished off in a feed lot.

I don't think there's anything wrong with you wanting to eat meat. But I think that anyone eating meat should be making the effort to source free range animals that have lived a semblance of a normal life.

[Nic.B]

I didn't say it would stop anything- I said I would no longer support the industry.

I don't support puppyfarmers either but I don't think I can close down the industryby not supporting it. Good grief. A bit of realism please.

The thought of eating pork from a pig that has been battered to death makes me ill. I don't care what you think about my decision.

Because as soon as one video is released there is a plethora of people who suddenly convert to vegetarianism. This has been happening since before you were born and the whole time you were eating meat. I don't see how now suddenly it's really a statement of how fed up you are with animal welfare practices.

As for being a vegetarian ... what about eggs, fish and dairy. All of those industries have their own poor practices too. Vegetables ... what land did they clear and what poisons have they been spraying which has been killing the environment for years. Do your grains come from farmers who poison native wildlife?

Keep going like this until you starve to death. If people want to make a difference they need to support DPI, RSPCA and other welfare related groups in regularly checking establishments and doiung random spot checks at least 4-5 times a year. All abbatoirs and knackeries should have surveilance installed as a rule as far as I'm concerned, and not only should the staff member be charged but the entire company too for not keeping staff in check.

If you watch why that staff member hit the pig, it passed the stunning point and he obviously was not given anything else like a captive bolt to make sure.

I have only read the first few posts and the people involved are in my local area. It is a private abbatoir for a local butcher for human meat. I will be letting them know my thoughts.

Nekbet I agree they should have got it right the first time, they didnt though. Bashing them on the head after a shock is not the answer.

For those who dont know, the animals are stunned first with an electric shock and then given a bolt in the head. A bit like a gun which they then reuse for the 100 other animals.

There is no excuse for this sort of abuse. It is beyond my comprehension.

[~Anne~]

Another one is www.humanechoice.com (maybe .au as well?)

www.humanechoice.com.au is the one I need. Thank you!!

It has loads of information to enable people to make an informed choice. This will help me when I choose my eggs next. The brand I normally buy is not listed which is frustrating.

[stormie]

Question though, does free range guarantee an animal has a humane slaughter? I only buy meat from a free range butcher, but I confess to not knowing anything about the slaughter process. If it's cruel and traumatic, it kind of makes the whole free range thing pointless. It's something I'll talk to my butcher about when I'm next in.

[~Anne~]

Yes, I'd also considered that. Hence why I'll just stick with buying eggs and not meat.

[melzawelza]

Question though, does free range guarantee an animal has a humane slaughter? I only buy meat from a free range butcher, but I confess to not knowing anything about the slaughter process. If it's cruel and traumatic, it kind of makes the whole free range thing pointless. It's something I'll talk to my butcher about when I'm next in.

This is true, I think possibly the free range animals are sent to the same slaughterhouses as the non free range

I was thinking of that just after I posted actually.

Although if I had to choose for the animal I've eaten to have lived a good live and then be killed inhumanely, or to be killed humanely but have been battery farmed I know which I'd choose.

Still, I shouldn't have to bloody well choose. People should do their job properly and NOT BE INHUMANE TO ANIMALS. How hard is it!? Frustrates me.

[black_dog]

As for being a vegetarian ... what about eggs, fish and dairy. All of those industries have their own poor practices too. Vegetables ... what land did they clear and what poisons have they been spraying which has been killing the environment for years. Do your grains come from farmers who poison native wildlife?

Keep going like this until you starve to death. If people want to make a difference they need to support DPI, RSPCA and other welfare related groups in regularly checking establishments and doiung random spot checks at least 4-5 times a year.

I disagree with this. I'm not a vegetarian, but was for a number of years, mainly due to the unsustainability of factory farming at western society levels.

We all draw the line somewhere, anything from not caring to being a fruitarian. You don't need to be a meat eater just because there is something wrong in every food sector. It's a personal choice, and every thing we do makes some difference. If you personally don't eat meat, then there is 74kg of animal each year that doesn't have to get killed.