Dogs4Fun Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Hi All, I am thinking through training some of the actions for rally, and can't think of a logical way to train the heeling backwards action. I don't clicker train, but use food, toys etc. I have obedience competion dogs if that makes a difference. Any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Just a quick idea off the top of my head. Can you try starting them off walking backwards between your legs so your legs are a guide? My dogs can walk backwards between my legs and beside me now with a guide on the other side (such as a wall) to keep them straight, but I'm yet to try without a guide as I am not actively training for it. I know they can take a few steps backwards next to me in heel position without a guide (as I am testing their understanding of heel position) but I haven't pushed for more. They can also walk backwards facing me, but can't stay straight Edited February 8, 2012 by RubyStar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Yep - we train ours alongside a wall - and build it up very gradually - like rewarding one step at a time. Don't know where you are, but if you know any people who do Heelwork to Music/Dances with Dogs - they may have some ideas. The problem we find is that the dog's head and shoulders will be in position, but there back end tends to swing out without the wall - suggests we're trying to get too much too soon :D Don't forget too that it's Rally O, so you can experiment with positioning your left hand differently - and it is only 3 steps in Rally ;) ETA Forgot to say, it helps to do quite a bit of rear end awareness work with the dog as well. Edited February 8, 2012 by Tassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Thanks for your comments. I was going to try near a wall. I had a quick fiddle with them this morning and they kept trying to flip finish when I moved my left leg back - I could probably get three "flips" in!! I do know a few doggie dancers - didn't think of asking them - off to the phone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sas Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 We haven't had a problem with it yet, but I think that's because we do alot of rear end awareness, so then when we say Heel and walk backwards so do they. Could some rear end awareness such as pivoting exercises assist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 I think so - will pull out my old notes from (long ago) agility days and see what I can find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I taught my girl a good reliable "backup" first using the clicker. Now I am teaching her to heel backwards with me, so I put her in the heel position & give the cue "backup" as I move the leg closest to her, clicking & treating when she takes a couple of steps. I am still doing it against a wall though & think that I will just gradually increase my distance from the wall, till she learns to stick close to my leg. She also knows "back under" meaning to go backwards between my legs when I step back, so it is still a little confusing for her but we are getting there. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Make sure the dog understands how to find heel position regardless i.e. to line up with your leg. So will the dog find position with your front leg forward/leg back. Thats about all I did and my youngster has no issues heeling backwards regardless of how many paces I want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrms Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 When I taught this I used a left turn as a starting point. Turn into a left turn & take a very small step back, reward & carry on forward - as though you are asking for more back-end swing to start with. Hope that makes sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 look up Bart Bellon on Youtube, he does a lot of backwards heeling both beside and as a send out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PAX Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 1328684481[/url]' post='5714939']Make sure the dog understands how to find heel position regardless i.e. to line up with your leg. So will the dog find position with your front leg forward/leg back. Thats about all I did and my youngster has no issues heeling backwards regardless of how many paces I want. Same here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Make sure the dog understands how to find heel position regardless i.e. to line up with your leg. So will the dog find position with your front leg forward/leg back. Thats about all I did and my youngster has no issues heeling backwards regardless of how many paces I want. They both can "find" heel from anywhere, but moving back with me is just not making sense - so the way I am trying is not right for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 When I taught this I used a left turn as a starting point. Turn into a left turn & take a very small step back, reward & carry on forward - as though you are asking for more back-end swing to start with. Hope that makes sense I like this idea - will give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogs4Fun Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 look up Bart Bellon on Youtube, he does a lot of backwards heeling both beside and as a send out Will go search - thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canine Coach Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Hi All, I am thinking through training some of the actions for rally, and can't think of a logical way to train the heeling backwards action. I don't clicker train, but use food, toys etc. I have obedience competion dogs if that makes a difference. Any ideas? EXPERIMENT but progress VERY slowly I hope this helps I am ALOT better at working with dogs and people in person when I can adjust my advice as needed, instantly I find it MUCH more difficult to explain how to do anything in writing Start with the dog standing facing you. Use guides i.e. a wall on one side and a PVC jump pole or a line of bricks on the ground on other side You can even use your arms as guides Try till you find what works best with your dog and what you are most comfortable with yourself Whatever you use, as guides, MUST make the dog comfortable NOT create stress in the dog! Hold both hands with food in each hand, as lures, on BOTH sides of dog's head at eye levels SHUFFLE foward just a teeny bit into the dog, while very carefully and slowly sliding the food back just a bit in both hands, at both his eye level on either side of his face When you feed, feed from BOTH hands, simultaneously, so the dog does not orient to one side or the other Try different positions, till you find one causes the dog to move even one perfect 1 step back INSTANTLY say YES and reward Try progressing VERY slowly and remember to REWARD THE POSITION (1 or more foot moves STRAIGHT back)with "YES" or a clicker INSTANTLY and then food to follow Shape and condition the behavior in very tiny increments/ chunks/steps till each small chunk is perfect 10X in a row THEN move in tiny bits closer and closer to your goal Name the behavior "back back back" AFTER the dog is taking at least 3 steps STRAIGHT back IF your dog seems to progress then he revert back, DROP BACK, temporarily, to the last chunk of behavior, in which the dog was successful 10X in a row Do not push ahead till the dog does the chunk you are working on PERFECTLY at least 6 times in a row The last BIG chunk, is to switch to having the dog at your side. The begin to break the behavior down into very small chunks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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