What To Expect At Training Schools

[huck house]

Hi, I'm interested in what people think are fundamental qualities a puppy/dog training and obedience school should have before signing up. What type of attitude the staff have? the general vibe ? Does it vary depending on what you want to do with your dog/s ?

Thanks for any thoughts in advance!

[TollerLover]

Personally, I like to see the trainers dogs and how obedient/well trained they are.

Also, if they are happy to take all dogs, regardless of breed/problems/aggression or other issues.

The trainer to dog ratio, happy, friendly service and willing to take your own dog and show you where you are going wrong, rather than demonstrating on their own dog every time.

My two cents x

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

I think it depends on what you are after, really. I'd definitely be looking for a real positive training school; not just one that claims it is, but one that won't let you use choker chains, etc.

Aside from that, it depends what you are after. I'm an obedience trialler, so I want a club that offers a reasonable trialling class, but someone who 'just' wants a pet might want a defined companion curriculum, someone else might want a good flyball team, and someone else might want an agility foundations class for their future agility pup!

[Nekhbet]

I'd definitely be looking for a real positive training school; not just one that claims it is, but one that won't let you use choker chains, etc.

Why would you want to go to a school that limits what equipment can be used? You think a school cannot be motivational if they use correction chains?

This is the misconception. I'm currently about to open my own school and I welcome whatever equipment works for your dog and handling capability. It's not yank and crank but corrections are only to be used on dogs that require them and motivation is always going to be the predominant method to achieve goals.

You should look for trainers who are genuinely interested in what their doing, that they are firm but fair and have time to listen. They should enforce the school rules and ensure everyone's safety at the school as well. If the dogs being trained are happy, the handlers are happy and the methods are not just shutting the dogs down then you're in for a good thing :)

[huck house]

Thanks, the school we went to takes all dog breeds and issues .. They use a combination of methods ,check chains and toys . so tick'!

It had quite a militant feel but dispite that , it felt unorganized. Many of the other clients looked like they were at Saturday detention. Our dog was not assessed as promised let alone handled by anyone. The staff didn't pat or say hello to our dog . Is that standard?? Should trainers keep at arms length from clients dogs?

Thanks again

[Erny]

Was it an actual class you were involved with at the school, HH, or was it an information session? Perhaps they don't move to get 'up close and person' (meaning : getting to know you and your dog) unless you decide to join with them? I don't know what school you are talking about, so these are genuine 'food for thought' questions.

At our school, our instructors make a point of introducing themselves to everyone. We let the dogs relax a bit and get used to us being there and depending on the dog's background history, usually do take moments to let them sniff us and become familiar, as we move around the class. In this way we are able to guage to a degree the dog's temperament and/or confidence and this in turns gives us the advantage of knowing what approach to take with that particular dog.

And of course it's not that long before we come to know our doggy clients and one can't help but grow a little attachment to each of their personalities, so in short time we usually have them looking forward to saying a little hello to us when they arrive to training. For the most part though, it is the owner/handlers who are the ones we want their dogs most attentive and attractive to, so except for times when we might want/need to demonstrate and show the owners what to do and how to do it, in certain exercises, we are generally fairly low-key - it's not about us and the dogs, it's about the owners and their dogs. Mind you, we do steel a few quiet pettings .... but the owners don't mind :D.

Some of our dogs present with some behaviour issues, such as fear, timidity. We let those dogs learn us more and get comfortable being around us. Generally the dogs grow confidence at their own pace and with us reading that in their body language, we work according to what they are able to cope with and learn well from. If these behaviour emotions are excessive we have generally already organised and conducted a private behaviour consultation before commencing class work.

Classes should be fun and motivational.

Don't know if this goes to answering your question or not.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Erny

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

I'd definitely be looking for a real positive training school; not just one that claims it is, but one that won't let you use choker chains, etc.

Why would you want to go to a school that limits what equipment can be used? You think a school cannot be motivational if they use correction chains?

This is the misconception. I'm currently about to open my own school and I welcome whatever equipment works for your dog and handling capability. It's not yank and crank but corrections are only to be used on dogs that require them and motivation is always going to be the predominant method to achieve goals.

You should look for trainers who are genuinely interested in what their doing, that they are firm but fair and have time to listen. They should enforce the school rules and ensure everyone's safety at the school as well. If the dogs being trained are happy, the handlers are happy and the methods are not just shutting the dogs down then you're in for a good thing :)

As I said, Nekhbet, its very dependent on what you want for your dog. I'm a positive trainer, with a fairly soft and very smart dog, so no, I wouldn't want to go to a school that advocates aversives, as I wouldn't use them on my dog. That's not say I would stop someone from seeking out alternatives for a difficult dog that they had tried other things with, its just not what I want for myself.

[huski]

As I said, Nekhbet, its very dependent on what you want for your dog. I'm a positive trainer, with a fairly soft and very smart dog, so no, I wouldn't want to go to a school that advocates aversives, as I wouldn't use them on my dog. That's not say I would stop someone from seeking out alternatives for a difficult dog that they had tried other things with, its just not what I want for myself.

But just because the school may have those tools available, doesn't mean they have to be used on every dog.

The obedience school I instruct at has a range of tools available - head collars, martingales, check chains etc - but that doesn't mean everyone has to use them, I don't. I find the same thing with when I look for a trainer. They may use aversives with some dogs if that is what is necessary and best for the dog/handler but that doesn't mean they use them on all dogs.

Edited February 6, 2012 by huski

[Nekhbet]

As I said, Nekhbet, its very dependent on what you want for your dog. I'm a positive trainer, with a fairly soft and very smart dog, so no, I wouldn't want to go to a school that advocates aversives, as I wouldn't use them on my dog. That's not say I would stop someone from seeking out alternatives for a difficult dog that they had tried other things with, its just not what I want for myself.

And that is why I don't believe in limiting equipment used. I know how to use it and I'm happy for clients to use it if it 1) works for them and 2) is safe for them and the dog. So you would tell a client to miss out on a potentially good school because a few dogs may be wearing correction chains, and its a piece of equipment you dont like? A good trainer will assess the dogs behavior and work with the owner as to what is right for that dog, not what the 'school' says all dogs must wear.

It had quite a militant feel but dispite that , it felt unorganized. Many of the other clients looked like they were at Saturday detention. Our dog was not assessed as promised let alone handled by anyone. The staff didn't pat or say hello to our dog . Is that standard?? Should trainers keep at arms length from clients dogs?

I can be a little militant :laugh: I have had people call me drill sergeant but it was all in fun. Hey why command your dog when crazy loud trainer lady does it for you from across the field but seriously, I don't see why they wouldn't be interested in the dogs. Owners can have their own spin on what they think the dog needs and how it is ... now not saying owners are wrong but sometimes they can misconstrue behaviors. I like to see the dogs, get close up and look at the body language in the reaction, it can tell you more then a conversation sometimes.

If you don't have a good feeling, you can try one class or just watch a couple, and if you don't like it move on if you can. You have to be happy there too :)

[Cleo's Corgwyn]

oh, fer dogs sake folks READ what is actually said! I said its about what you want, I even explained why that is what I would look for in a school. Yes, this doesn't mean that its the same as what you are looking for, and no, I would not train someone or recommend they attend my obedience club if they were looking to use aversive methods. I *might* suggest other good trainers I know who are experienced in those methods, if I felt the person understood what they were asking, but I won't personally use those methods.

Nekhbet, we're pretty much saying the same thing, just from different angles; find something that *you* are comfortable with and that suits your training goals.

Oh, and by the way, I can do drill sergeant better than most people I know, I just don't choose to use with my current, soft dog, or in pet obedience classes. But you ought to hear me organising people into classes at the start of session :D

HH, to get this back on track, I guess what we're all trying to say is try and find something you are comfortable with, and suits your training goals.

[Nekhbet]

oh, fer dogs sake folks READ what is actually said!

No. We refuse to fully read your post and provide a logical statement underneath

[Poppy's mum]

The school I go to is boring. I'd like something other than luring used to train and motivate the dogs. We've had 5 classes and I don't think I'll go back - which is probably why they get the 80 dollar ground fee upfront.

Didn't think anyone used check chains any more.

[Salukifan]

The school I go to is boring. I'd like something other than luring used to train and motivate the dogs. We've had 5 classes and I don't think I'll go back - which is probably why they get the 80 dollar ground fee upfront.

Didn't think anyone used check chains any more.

Can you give a 'such as'? My guess is that it's not the method that's boring but the pace of training? Always a challenge in a group class.

[Erny]

IMO luring shouldn't be used to train. Helps with "teaching" though. I believe clubs are moving away from luring, but I think the reason for that isn't because it is a bad technique, rather than the fact that many people get 'stuck' on it and either don't move away from it quickly because they find it easier not to, or because they don't know how to.

ETA: But that's not what this topic is about.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Erny

[huck house]

All posts and perspectives are interesting! Thanks.

Erny , we attended a basic information session and were told to come on Saturday, they will assess our dog.

I had to sign up for 6 months at $290 before they would even meet our dog. I can now understand that staff should approach dogs with caution , especially if they are unsure if newcomers and their handlers have been assssed and understand the school rules.

I suppose i started this thread to see if I am justified in feeling a little let down and ripped off. We had explained how committed we are to our dog and want to know what the best approach to take, whether to see a behaviourist etc. The main thing I am left wondering is , if this school are the ones to help us , why didn't they offer us private lessons and do I feel happy to show up there again. We signed up at the end of last year, went to two sessions there was the Xmas break and we have not been back.

Confirming that i can't show up there tense, that will affect my dog .

[Erny]

HH - Maybe just visit there a couple more times to see if you can manage to feel a bit more settled in, perhaps? You don't have to stay if you're not keen nor do you have to let them work with your dog if you're not yet sure of what they are doing and whether you like it, but sometimes giving things a bit more of a chance can change a perspective. Just a thought. But overall, if you really feel uncomfortable, look around.

ETA: If your dog is just a new pup, then I'd be likely to advise a bit differently, as one week in a pup's life is a huge amount of time and you don't want to miss out on the opportunity for great quality puppy preschool experience and assistance.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Erny

[huck house]

Erny, Thanks for your thoughts and advice.. My dog is 4 years old, we are his 3rd home . I worry that he will practice and hone his bad behaviors if I take him back there. Whether their techniques aren't right for him or I can't execute them properly, would it be damaging to try it out a couple more times , or given his age , make no real difference ??

A young couple with a 12 week old pug were told to put deep heat on his paws and spray him with lemon juice to stop his excessive nipping. Is that normal or standard??

[Weasels]

Why would you want to go to a school that limits what equipment can be used? You think a school cannot be motivational if they use correction chains?

A lot of the clubs I've looked at are either 'no check chains' or 'check chains required & no clickers allowed'. Given that choice, I would go with the positive club every time. Sure if there was an open-minded club with good trainers that had an intelligent approach to aversives I would join, but not everyone has such a club nearby. So I'll err on the side of avoiding the yank & crank cowboys.

A young couple with a 12 week old pug were told to put deep heat on his paws and spray him with lemon juice to stop his excessive nipping. Is that normal or standard??

This would send up big red flags for me

[Erny]

Erny, Thanks for your thoughts and advice.. My dog is 4 years old, we are his 3rd home . I worry that he will practice and hone his bad behaviors if I take him back there. Whether their techniques aren't right for him or I can't execute them properly, would it be damaging to try it out a couple more times , or given his age , make no real difference ??

A young couple with a 12 week old pug were told to put deep heat on his paws and spray him with lemon juice to stop his excessive nipping. Is that normal or standard??

I'm sorry HH - I can't really answer your queries because I don't know what their techniques are nor do I know your dog.

I don't like to comment on methodology of other trainers here on a public forum and on the basis of a 3rd party brief description but use of deep heat and spray as you've described above is not something I would do.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Erny

[huck house]

Of course. Thanks though. I have tried to be generic with my questions . We are going to seek out other alternatives when we have some extra money . In the meantime I don't want any drama, or to make the mistake of 'practice makes permanent ' If I am not handling the dog correctly at the training school.

We are in Melbourne if anyone has any recommendations. Cheers.:)