Idiots - Opinions On Comments?

[Kazhak]

Children are Children & by nature very curious especially about animals, I would like to think its polite & common sense to ask the owner before petting a strange dog but it may not always happen, in saying that I was approached by a very polite young man while Krusty & I were at the beach the other day & he politely asked to pat my dog who was in my arms at the time I said yes as I know Krusty is great with Kids & he doesn't mind the attention, I like to be able to monitor the situation though as he is a small dog & doesn't like being crowded, thats why I appreciate it when people or children ask to pat him, but I don't have a major hang up about it I am just ready to extract my dog if the attention looks to overwhelm him, in fact he knows if he comes to stand behind my legs or very close to them then he is safe & the unwanted attention will stop :) & that includes if another dog is showing too much attention in him too..

[milly2]

I think the owners should be asked first,for their own safety , children espesially should not be allowed to go and pat a dog of their own free will, and any responsible parent shoud not allow it, unless they ask the owner first if it is ok to do so.

[sandgrubber]

Personally I'd like to see us return to a world where if you did something stupid then you accepted the consequences. Can't ever see it happening of course. All we have now is "it wasn't my fault" society and there is always someone or something to blame.

Something stupid, like approach a dog? Or something stupid like taking a dog that bites into an environment where it is likely to be provoked?

Now if both sides took responsibility . . . people minded their manners approaching dogs and people with dogs that bite muzzled them before taking them in public / crowded places or playgrounds . . . there would be a lot fewer dog bites.

[Roova]

If children or even adults aren't encouraged (or told) that it's appropriate to ask before patting a dog, somewhere along the line they'll try and interact with the wrong dog.

Most people seem to go for the top of the head and put their face down to baby talk the dog and I would imagine some dogs could find that threatening or frightening and might react. You'd think in this day and age people would have some awareness of the potential danger but there seems to be a lot of people who think a bite will never happen to them.

There's probably a lot of people who don't know what their own dog would do if suddenly approached by a stranger until its too late. The owner of the german shepherd left near the door may not have been aware his dog was reacting that way to hand near him. I hope you told him Tempus to make him think twice about leaving his dog near a door next time and hopefully avoid someone getting bitten.

We seem to be turning in to such a litigous society, even if someone did all the wrong things and got bitten by a dog they approached univited, its most likely the poor owner who'll have to cough up if it went to court!

[Tilly]

We have security dogs which are very much part of the family ... they know the difference between home and work but are still protective of their family. One is only muzzled when taken to the vet. I do not allow stranger to pat either but both dogs make it clear to me if they like a person or not.

We previously had a rottie who was never off duty ... he was muzzled if he was anywhere near others. We had an incident with him at the local vet one day. I had taken him in after he got a very nasty scratch across his eye and we needed to check if the eye itself was damaged. Dog was far from happy to be restrainted and test done ... it took 5 people to hold him and one person left a dent in the plaster wall. So I had a very cranky dog (the test was uncomfortable and stings a bit). Waiting room went from full to empty ... when it was finished the vet led the way out and I took the dog out to put him straight in the car. In the moment it took to lift the door on the back of the car, a parent with toddler saw the dog and started urging her child to "pat the doggy". Thankfully vet grabbed the child while I got the dog in the car and safely locked away. Parents reason for wanting her child to pat the dog was because "he was sitting so nicely". Vet told parent in no uncertain terms never to allow her child to approach an unknown dog without checking with the owner first.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Tilly

[Greytmate]

It should be a summary offence punishable by a fine for any person, without reasonable excuse, to interfere with an animal, or anything attached to or fitted to an animal, or to permit a child under their supervision or guardianship to do so.

So one could get fined for trying to pet a dog, or allowing their children to pet a strange dog.

I recall a situation about a year ago when I was going into a roadhouse cafe, a guy already in the cafe had left his german shepherd by the door. As I went through the door, I held my hand near the dog's nose as a greeting and he snapped at it - he was simply telling me in dog language that his attention was totally focused on his owner on the other side of the glass door inside the cafe and for me to mind my own business, which I did. He didn't lunge at me or try to kill me, he was merely communicating dog style. Would he have bitten me if I had actually tried to pat him on the head? - maybe. Would he have bitten a child that tried to pat him? maybe.

I recall readind a blog entry once from a zoophile - never force yourself on an animal - if the animal wants to interact with you let it come to you, otherwise leave it alone.

This is the silliest idea I have read on DOL for a very long time. Good luck finding a politician willing to take you seriously. :laugh:

Nice dogs will move their head away if somebody puts a hand in front and they don't like it. The dog that snapped at you sounds like a very nasty piece of work, and the owner sounds like a moron.

[Diva]

There is one idiot on there - JB - who seems to think it is a child's right to be able to go up to a strange dog and pat it without fear of getting bitten... is it just me that thinks it is not anyone's right to go up to a strange dog and pat it without asking the owners first????

I think that a person should be able to pat a strange dog without fear of being bitten, at least for an uninjured dog in a public place.

But I don't think anyone has a right to do so, or should ever do so or allow their child to do so, without explicit permission from the animal's handler.

People assert all kinds of selfish thing are 'rights', when they are nothing of the kind.

[sandgrubber]

Modern societies take child protection very seriously. You cannot assume all kids have been properly instructed about how to greet a dog. You can assume that if your dog bites a child in a public place you are going to be in deep sh!t. Call people idiots if you like. Get annoyed when kids come up saying 'nice doggie' without due respect. But don't put your dog in positions where people are going to demand that it is pts. I wouldn't say it's a question of rights . . . it's a question of how people and dogs live together.

I don't like this poll. The OP, in putting IDIOT in the title, is assuming an answer. That is bad form. How about asking it differently: If a child approaches a dog in a public space, without asking permission to pat it, is it ok for the dog to bite the child? Bet that would get different responses.

I like to see dog ownership as a right. But I think it's too much to ask that the right to own a dog extends to the right to take a dog who is likely to bite into public spaces. If you've got one of those dogs who isn't bomb proof and has teeth, keep 'em home or keep 'em muzzled. If there are too many bites, we're all going to loose our rights to dog ownership.

Edited February 4, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Crisovar]

All we will have left eventually is the rights of Idiots to be just that.

Common sense and courtesy are going to be long gone.

There is no such thing as a bomb proof dog.

[mumof4girls]

I must say just because a person lets a child pat a dog or an adult pats a strange dog without asking does not make them an idiot, it means they like dogs, your dog.. Maybe they don't own one for whatever reason but they shouldn't be looked at as morons for that. If people are not involved in the dog world then they probably wouldn't give asking the owner a second thought.. I have always made mine ask because I don't trust a lot of dogs,I was attacked as a young kid on a bike and I am very wary of dogs so that is why I am cautious with my kids, because I have had a bad experience, would I be this way if that experience never happened? I hope so but who knows..

I would say that councils maybe in conjunction with RSPCA need to have a bit of an educational guide/ TV adds maybe re dogs and safety, get it out there otherwise how are people supposed to know..

Just a thought :-)

[Flaves]

Sorry nek, why should we expect our dogs not to react and be perfect, when we can't expect the same from people? There are plenty of dogs who are happy to accept pats from stranger, but can still jump and react (even if it is an air snap that accidentally get the idiot) if someone runs up and jumps the dog before they realised they have been approached.

Dogs should be allowed to be dogs, not unreactive robots.

We can expect the same from people. If somebody surprises you by touching you lightly on the back or head in the street, or accidentally bumps into you, and you retaliate and injure that person, you can be charged with assault. While it might give you a big fright, and we would expect you to have a startle response, it is not acceptable for you to retaliate with violence.

We don't tolerate people reacting in extreme or harmful ways to minor annoyances, and we shouldn't tolerate it in dogs either.

Dogs should be allowed to be dogs, and you should muzzle your dog if it is aggressively reactive to people.

I agree

In a perfect world everyone would ask if they could pat your dog

it is not a perfect work

My dogs would be fine being approached by strangers and patted.

Yes i prefer them to ask, but not everyone is a dog person or dog savvy and sometimes adults dont think to stop their kids and lots of kids dont know that it can be dangerous.

[sandgrubber]

I hope no media guys are watching this. I can see the headline: MAJORITY OF PEDIGREE DOG OWNERS STATE THINK DOGS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BITE CHILDREN.

[emgem]

I hope no media guys are watching this. I can see the headline: MAJORITY OF PEDIGREE DOG OWNERS STATE THINK DOGS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BITE CHILDREN.

Wow, that's a complete misrepresentation of what people are saying. It is about expectations and risk. What they are saying is that there is no such thing as a guarantee regarding dog behaviour and if you allow either your child or yourself to pat a strange dog without consulting the owner you are accepting the risk that you or the child may be bitten.

[emgem]

I hope no media guys are watching this. I can see the headline: MAJORITY OF PEDIGREE DOG OWNERS STATE THINK DOGS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO BITE CHILDREN.

Wow, that's a complete misrepresentation of what people are saying. It is about expectations and risk. What they are saying is that there is no such thing as a guarantee regarding dog behaviour and if you allow either your child or yourself to pat a strange dog without consulting the owner you are accepting the risk that you or the child may be bitten.

The truth is the guy JD in mentioned in the first comment actually believes that children should be able to go up to a strange dog and hit or kick it or pull it ears or tail without being bitten. Which quite frankly boggles the mind and with those kind of attitudes I am not surprised kids are being bitten.

[Dame Aussie]

All we will have left eventually is the rights of Idiots to be just that.

Common sense and courtesy are going to be long gone.

There is no such thing as a bomb proof dog.

[mita]

As an Educator with the Responsible Pet Ownership program, we teach all children and parents some basic rules about approaching dogs.

No owner

No lead

No touch!

The children are taught the safe way to approach a dog& owner if they wish to pat the dog.

Walk up slowly and stop 3 big steps away.

Ask permission.

Let the dog smell the back of your hand.

Pat the dog gently on the back, don't touch the head and don't lean over the top of the dog.

A 4yr old pre-school child can understand all of this, pity about some adults.

Sensible post. Good manners linked with caution when dealing with an 'unknown'.

And it would apply to many other situations where you'd be intruding on someone else's space/ belongings. So I put 'good manners' first.

Yesterday, when walking our 2 tibbies, I met a 6 yr old boy.

He asked, 'Can I pat your dogs?'

I answered, 'Would you like to make it a cuddle?'

'Yes, please!', he said.

I told him to kneel down & open his arms a bit. Next thing he had a gentle armful of gold.

I said to him, 'You were polite and careful. You deserve a big cuddle.' His mother, who'd supervised him, beamed.

[aussielover]

I answered "depends on circumstances".

If the dog is in the street, it should be able to accept people touching/patting/bumping into it without biting as a response.

If the owner is worried that their dog will bite they have an obligation to muzzle it. The dog is very dangerous and the public shouldn't have to tolerate that sort of danger in the streets.

If the dog is on private property and a person enters the dog's yard without permission, they should fear being bitten. That's fair enough I guess.

I completely agree with this.

[mita]

- is it just me that thinks it is not anyone's right to go up to a strange dog and pat it without asking the owners first????

This is what the OP asked. Was it anyone's right to go up to a strange dog and pat it without asking the owners first?

Which is why I put good manners first that it would not be OK. No more than someone ought go up to a stranger & believe they have the right to touch anything that belongs to them....including their person.

I linked that with caution, in terms of risk-taking. There are too many variables associated with a stranger touching a strange dog to operate on any Magic Golden Rule that, in the Best of All Possible Worlds, it should be OK. That's a fantasy.

What's needed is a Reality Check with the owner, 'Is it OK if I pat your dog?' Amazing how few seconds that adds on to patting the dog....or refraining from patting the dog.

[aussielover]

Actually the OP asked should it be ok to pat a strange dog (without permission) without fear of being bitten.

Which is somewhat different to: is it anyone's right to go up to a strange dog and pat it without asking the owners first?

I think if a person approaches in a non threatening way eg. talking to the dog first, letting it know your there, letting it approach you etc then they should not fear being bitten in a public situation.

Obviously if they throw them selves upon the dog, startle it and bear hug it, they should expect a less than favourable response.

ETA: obviously it could be considered rude not to ask the owners permission before patting.

But I don't necessarily think people should fear being bitten by the dog if they make a mistake and don't ask (especially kids)

Edited February 5, 2012 by aussielover

[mita]

Actually the OP asked should it be ok to pat a strange dog (without permission) without fear of being bitten.

Which is somewhat different to: is it anyone's right to go up to a strange dog and pat it without asking the owners first?

I think if a person approaches in a non threatening way eg. talking to the dog first, letting it know your there, letting it approach you etc then they should not fear being bitten in a public situation.

Obviously if they throw them selves upon the dog, startle it and bear hug it, they should expect a less than favourable response.

I copied the actual words of the question asked by the OP. It asked if someone had the right to go up and pat a dog without asking for the owners' permission.

Tell me why, in your scenario, you will talk to the dog first? And are unwilling or unable to speak a few words to the person who owns the dog?

When in those same seconds, you could've displayed good manners combined with a reality check....and spoken to the owner... 'Is it OK to pat your dog?'

The good manners in asking the owner, tests degree of risk. Only a fantasist believes that there can never, ever be any risk.

And, it's not just risk... an owner has the right to not want strangers patting their dog. As someone else said, just as people have the right to not want strangers touching their babies & small children.

So it's equally good manners to give the person the right to say 'No'.

As another poster said, if a 4 yr old can do it.....& I experienced a 6 yr old do it....then so can an adult.

Edited February 5, 2012 by mita