Little Disheartned With New Vet

[mumof4girls]

Hey everyone, I took Rogue for his 10week vaccination today. I decided to try a different vet from the one I went to for his puppy check just because I didn't really feel that good about the vet, nothing I could put my finger on anyway just a feeling..

So I walk in and she looks at him and says is he a puppy , well ok maybe he is big for his age.... I said yes he is 10weeks, she said what age was he when you got him, I said 8 weeks she says ok so youv'e had him for 4 weeks... omg at this point I am looking at her with a wtf face ... I decide to just see how this goes maybe she is nervous

She then she asks about food, I said I am feeding raw.. Well I get the speel about really I should be feeding dry as it is all they need and great for their teeth.. I say I understand that but I am feeding raw and he has meaty bones, he doesnt really like dry, I was giving it but he would leave it ( really he doesn't like it I have tried 2 brands) Well I get slammed and pretty much told that I am not feeding my dog properly.. I tried to defend my reasons but I stopped and said I understand what you are saying can you give him his vaccination now please.. ( I stayed calm but I was quite angry why should I justify myself)

Anyway she gave him a once over and it seems my little man has only had one testy drop ( I blame myself at this point as I now remember the breeder telling me with this breed you have to play with his privates to make them both come down, common problem... I forgot ) Does anyone have expereince with this, do I just feel around and coax it down everyday?? I will be ringing my breeder today to ask but in the mean time does anyone know..??

She then feels him over and says he is a bit lean.. Now I am thinking omg my baby I am not feeding him enough.. He is so fluffy that you can feel his bones, that sounds bad I mean he doesn't feel like he is skeletal but you can't see them due to his thick coat , I have read that you should feel them but not see them, it is hard with a guy with a thick coat though.. Anyway So I can now see the vet is thinking, raw food hey..

He weighs 5.6kg I am sure at his 8 week weigh at the other vet it was 4.6kg but I didn't write that down silly me

So this is what I feed him..

Breakfast . I give him half a barf patty rissole size in the AM with either an egg yolk or yoghurt, or plain.

Lunch: he has sardines and yoghurt OR ( sometimes the other half of the barf)

Tea I give him rissole size barf and sometimes I put potato in it or last night pumpkin. If I give him too much he leaves it, If I put dry food in it he picks the other stuff out and leaves the dry. He is only 10 weeks but then he is a large breed , we got home and I put more food out he had a bite then walked away and laid down and is asleep now he is such a good boy if he was hungry wouldn't he be whining for food???

His food Sounds plain but I was waiting till about 10weeks before I add different food.

Extra I give him is every second day a meaty bone which he loves. He won't eat chicken necks, turkey necks I have tried and tried frozen and fresh..

She told me it must be hard if he doesn't eat dry food and I should change brands.. Yeah well the puppy school lady got me to buy Eukanuba which was a waste as he won't touch it.. That was her only suggestion...

Do you guys think he is way under weight ? Like I said if I give him too much he leaves it then after 15 mins I take it away.. He does sleep a lot but then when it is cooler he has lots of energy, we play early at 5am he chases things, palys tug, runs and chases the ball and brings it back to me and we do our training then also, he then has another burst of energy in the late arvo with the girls he does zoomies round the yar. He doesn't cope well with the heat and here in brisbane it has been steamy of late and he has lots of thich hair.. He is an airedale terrier..

I just feel sad now but I am not sure what else to do as in food, I thought he was eating fine, he never whines after dinner for more he normally sits and plays with his toy puppy or kong wobbler not eating the dry food that falls out just enjoys hitting it with his paw :)

[korbin13]

I ignore vets when it comes to what I feed my dogs. I had one go all horrified when I said I feed raw bones and begin to lecture me about bowel obstructions. And not in a nice way, like I was an idiot. She was fresh out of uni. Took 30 minutes for her to give a vaccination because she was lecturing me for so long!

Unfortunately as we live in a small town there aren't too many options for vets but needless to say I give her a wide berth!

If he was starving he would eat the dry food.

[**Super_Dogs**]

I would suggest contacting your breeder about his weight as they should be able to let you know if he is the right weight.

Sometimes with puppies it is trial and error with food to work out the right amount. If he is fluffy are going to have to feel him, like the vet did, to watch his weight. You want to be able to feel his last rib, without pushing.

Maybe increase his food and check him every few days to see how he is going.

IMO I would not bother with the potato of pumkin. This are good filler is you want your dog to loose weight. I would also spread his food intake out more evently for all meal, while he is still so young.

Regarding raw V's dry - so long as it is a balanced diet with all the nutrients needed for a growing puppy - you feed whatever you want!!

[persephone]

I think puppies should be well covered - ie: no bones felt ..they should be sort of round until 3-4 mths when they start to go gangly .... so if you feel bones under that fluff- yes, perhaps he does need more food.? Large pups need to be grown slowly..but they also need to have a bit in reserve in case of illness /no food for a day or two ;?

his tummy may be full - so he doesn't feel hungry..but there may not be enough calories in the food he's getting to keep his weight on while he grows..

(a bit .like humans losing weight ..eating low calories/high fibre foods to fill the tummy but not add calories ;) )

[Tilly]

Weight really means nothing ... each dog is different and you can really only judge a dog on its physical condition. I have large breed dogs so they are usually on the lighter side during the puppy growing stage.

I assume you are following his breeders diet suggests ... and if you dog is healthy and doing ok on his current diet - then stick to it and change vets.

My youngest GSD boy came to me on raw ... and silly me tried him on different dry foods and I ended up with nothing but runny messes to clean up. Switched him back to raw and he was fine.

I gave my boy the BARF patties, chicken frames/necks/wings, turkey necks / wings, yoghurt, sardines, fish, eggs, and brisket bones.

We now also add Canidae Pure Sea (grain free fish based) but only because the boys prefer it - the youngest went off the raw and I found they loved this stuff so they now get both raw and dry now.

I had a vet tell me my older boy was about 5kg overweight (he had just had a bath and was rather fluffy) ... until I told her to physically feel him ... and then I got told to put another 3kg on him. ;)

[Guest lavendergirl]

I don't necessarily buy the assertion that dry kibble cleans the teeth - my dog just gobbles it down without much chewing at all. Raw bones or a bully stick are much better for teeth IMO.

[mumof4girls]

OK guys I am ringing the breeder in a sec and yes tilly the breeder gave me a list of foods that she had him on and i feed him the exact same , except she had chicken necks on the list but he just licks them for me lol or carries them round the yard in his mouth lol.. also she had him on advance puppy but he wouldn't eat it hence why I changed it but that hasn't worked either..

Persephone maybe if I offer him more throughout the day like morning tea and afternoon tea as if I give him more he leaves it.. I give him the guide dog recommended barf mix growth I would of thought that would have had enough calories in it, I will have a read of othe r brands also..

Thanks guys I just thought as he is getting bigger he is thinning out like kids do lol..

Anyway I'll talk it through with his breeder..

Thank you for your quick reply I feel better :-)

[Erny]

I ignore vets when it comes to what I feed my dogs. I had one go all horrified when I said I feed raw bones and begin to lecture me about bowel obstructions. And not in a nice way, like I was an idiot.

I found it interesting what Dr Bruce Syme said in relation to feeding bones. He mentioned that a dog's stomach acidity level is lower (ie erring more towards acidity) when its digestive system is used to eating raw meat. The acid in a dog's stomach is what 'dissolves' the bone to allow proper digestion.

However, when we feed (some) commercial foods, it can have the affect of turning the dog's digestive fluids towards alkaline, which means bones wouldn't be digested as well.

I would guess that's why Vets see so much more bowel obstruction caused by bones - and so bones get the blame. When it might in some/many cases be that the digestive fluid acidity levels have been altered because of other foods the dog has been being fed.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Erny

[Dogsfevr]

To be honest looking at the quantity i wouldn't think there is enough being feed,alot of the other stuff your giving isn't a meal food but add ons.

Yoghurt & Sardines are just add ons .Potato & pumpkin are fillers ,nothing wrong but aren't for weight gain just variety,we use pumpkin for dogs who have had the runs .

So basically his bulk meal depending on the size are just the barf patties which are often very small

What your feeding may be fine but you need to adjust the size with age .

You certainly need to feel the dog & this would happen when you are brushing the dog ???

You would feel the weight very easily coat doesn't make any difference .

Massaging his testicles is easy but don't go overboard so the dog becomes paranoid again you can do this during grooming time which is touch & feel time.

As for picking at food if he doesn't eat it it goes ,this applies to chicken necks,don't teach him to be fussy .

Also keep in mind pup has lost its competion to eat so you need to fill that role so if any food hasn;t been eaten it goes in 10 mins .

Our puppies we prefer to have good cover as they do grow quickly & do hit an age we underweight can suddenly turn into very underweight.

Whilst lean is good too lean can also be an issue & not assist in growing up nicely.

We see dogs that have been kept to lean as pups & very evident in adulthood .

At 10 weeks you pup will be playing alot more so you need to do weekly weight assessments & adjust the meals accordingly

[Jumabaar]

To be honest looking at the quantity i wouldn't think there is enough being feed,alot of the other stuff your giving isn't a meal food but add ons.

Yoghurt & Sardines are just add ons .Potato & pumpkin are fillers ,nothing wrong but aren't for weight gain just variety,we use pumpkin for dogs who have had the runs .

So basically his bulk meal depending on the size are just the barf patties which are often very small

What your feeding may be fine but you need to adjust the size with age .

You certainly need to feel the dog & this would happen when you are brushing the dog ???

You would feel the weight very easily coat doesn't make any difference .

Massaging his testicles is easy but don't go overboard so the dog becomes paranoid again you can do this during grooming time which is touch & feel time.

As for picking at food if he doesn't eat it it goes ,this applies to chicken necks,don't teach him to be fussy .

Also keep in mind pup has lost its competion to eat so you need to fill that role so if any food hasn;t been eaten it goes in 10 mins .

Our puppies we prefer to have good cover as they do grow quickly & do hit an age we underweight can suddenly turn into very underweight.

Whilst lean is good too lean can also be an issue & not assist in growing up nicely.

We see dogs that have been kept to lean as pups & very evident in adulthood .

At 10 weeks you pup will be playing alot more so you need to do weekly weight assessments & adjust the meals accordingly

Just on this you need to watch for growth spurts. My pup can have a nice coverage one day and be far too ribby two days later!!

Make a fist of one hand to compare to your dog's ribs. If the dog's ribs feel like the back of your hand the dog is a bit overweight. If the ribs feel like the knuckles, too ribby. If the ribs feel like the first finger bones then that is about right.

[mumof4girls]

To be honest looking at the quantity i wouldn't think there is enough being feed,alot of the other stuff your giving isn't a meal food but add ons.

Yoghurt & Sardines are just add ons .Potato & pumpkin are fillers ,nothing wrong but aren't for weight gain just variety,we use pumpkin for dogs who have had the runs .

So basically his bulk meal depending on the size are just the barf patties which are often very small

What your feeding may be fine but you need to adjust the size with age .

You certainly need to feel the dog & this would happen when you are brushing the dog ???

You would feel the weight very easily coat doesn't make any difference .

Massaging his testicles is easy but don't go overboard so the dog becomes paranoid again you can do this during grooming time which is touch & feel time.

As for picking at food if he doesn't eat it it goes ,this applies to chicken necks,don't teach him to be fussy .

Also keep in mind pup has lost its competion to eat so you need to fill that role so if any food hasn;t been eaten it goes in 10 mins .

Our puppies we prefer to have good cover as they do grow quickly & do hit an age we underweight can suddenly turn into very underweight.

Whilst lean is good too lean can also be an issue & not assist in growing up nicely.

We see dogs that have been kept to lean as pups & very evident in adulthood .

At 10 weeks you pup will be playing alot more so you need to do weekly weight assessments & adjust the meals accordingly

Hi showdog, Potato and pumpkin he doesn't get that often, I read it on here one day and thought that might be a nice change that was bland and wouldn't be too much,

He gets brushed everynight as we watch TV, and I feel his body for ticks I just probably just put his body down to a growth spurt I guess but he doesn't feel alarmingly thin, but I would like him a bit fatter..

I will do a search on food on here and start giving him more variety, I have bought Kidney and lamb heart that is in the freezer, so now might be a good time to add it..

You said the barf servings are small so I might also try one whole barf paddy then decrease this and add in the extra meat.. See this is where I am weary as the vet said Do Not make my own raw diet as he is too young so that's why I was keen to stick with the barf as it has all the things he needs.. So is it ok for me to give him other meats and add in veg and stop the barf or should I keep using barf say for 1 meal a day?

edit to say: I have emailed breeder as couldn't get hold of her, I am hoping she will also give me a food guide.. ( I need a menu with amounts on it I am a visual person )

Edited February 2, 2012 by mumof4girls

[mumof4girls]

To be honest looking at the quantity i wouldn't think there is enough being feed,alot of the other stuff your giving isn't a meal food but add ons.

Yoghurt & Sardines are just add ons .Potato & pumpkin are fillers ,nothing wrong but aren't for weight gain just variety,we use pumpkin for dogs who have had the runs .

So basically his bulk meal depending on the size are just the barf patties which are often very small

What your feeding may be fine but you need to adjust the size with age .

You certainly need to feel the dog & this would happen when you are brushing the dog ???

You would feel the weight very easily coat doesn't make any difference .

Massaging his testicles is easy but don't go overboard so the dog becomes paranoid again you can do this during grooming time which is touch & feel time.

As for picking at food if he doesn't eat it it goes ,this applies to chicken necks,don't teach him to be fussy .

Also keep in mind pup has lost its competion to eat so you need to fill that role so if any food hasn;t been eaten it goes in 10 mins .

Our puppies we prefer to have good cover as they do grow quickly & do hit an age we underweight can suddenly turn into very underweight.

Whilst lean is good too lean can also be an issue & not assist in growing up nicely.

We see dogs that have been kept to lean as pups & very evident in adulthood .

At 10 weeks you pup will be playing alot more so you need to do weekly weight assessments & adjust the meals accordingly

Just on this you need to watch for growth spurts. My pup can have a nice coverage one day and be far too ribby two days later!!

Make a fist of one hand to compare to your dog's ribs. If the dog's ribs feel like the back of your hand the dog is a bit overweight. If the ribs feel like the knuckles, too ribby. If the ribs feel like the first finger bones then that is about right.

Well then according to this he is ok...

My OH has contacted K9 pro ( paul) so we can train him as a family, as puppy class finishes in 3 more session OH isn't that happy about their methods, I also think I am too soft at times, anyway he is coming out later this month I think so I will also chat to him, I am adding this to my list ( poor guy :D )

[Jumabaar]

Well then according to this he is ok...

My OH has contacted K9 pro ( paul) so we can train him as a family, as puppy class finishes in 3 more session OH isn't that happy about their methods, I also think I am too soft at times, anyway he is coming out later this month I think so I will also chat to him, I am adding this to my list ( poor guy :D )

Its great you are getting some help. Perhaps he can also suggest a good vet in the area? Also don't feel bad requesting a certain vet at a practice- build up a relationship with them so that you have someone you can rely on.

My pups have all been grown on raw- you can get a few books on it. But basically I really try and vary their diet so that I don't miss anything. I also use Vets All Natural Complete Mix to put weight on my dogs as I find it very energy dense. So perhaps look at a product like this that you can use to increase the number of calories easily. I check my dogs ribs as I am making up each meal and feed more or less based on how their weight changes.

[**Super_Dogs**]

My OH has contacted K9 pro ( paul) so we can train him as a family, as puppy class finishes in 3 more session OH isn't that happy about their methods, I also think I am too soft at times, anyway he is coming out later this month I think so I will also chat to him, I am adding this to my list ( poor guy :D )

I think the key is consistency. Set the rules as a family, and enforce them.

The joy of puppies is when they start to get alittle older and start to push the boundaries - they are working out if they really need to listen to you or not. A few months ago I have a word with my pup, who at the time was 9-10 months and told her "you will save us both alot of trouble if you just work out now you must do what I say!!!!".

We had days where she would jump up on something she was not meant to be on, I would pull her off, she would jump back on, I would pull her off and so on (sometimes 3-4 times). However this only last a few weeks, now I say "off" and she gets off.

[mumof4girls]

Yeah Jumabaar I wonder if it is a growth spurt I think I will go back to what I was going to do before seeing this vet...I looked into weight for his age and it varies some under some way over at the same age .. The next vet is the same chain as the original but I have heard good things from my neighbour as he used them to desex his pup so I might try them next... I just gave him his lunch with dry food mixed in that I softend ( thought maybe he would eat it soft) he took 2 mouthfulls then walked away,I will leave it for 10 mins then take it away and offer it again later.. He didn't eat his breakfast but I thought that was cause OH put too much yoghurt in it, maybe he is just off his food today?

Edit to say he ate it all but left the soft dry food lol he even licked around it .. He really does not like dry food.. Might give it to the pound and try a different brand..

Edited February 2, 2012 by mumof4girls

[Tilly]

My OH has contacted K9 pro ( paul) so we can train him as a family, as puppy class finishes in 3 more session OH isn't that happy about their methods, I also think I am too soft at times, anyway he is coming out later this month I think so I will also chat to him, I am adding this to my list ( poor guy :D )

I think the key is consistency. Set the rules as a family, and enforce them.

The joy of puppies is when they start to get alittle older and start to push the boundaries - they are working out if they really need to listen to you or not. A few months ago I have a word with my pup, who at the time was 9-10 months and told her "you will save us both alot of trouble if you just work out now you must do what I say!!!!".

We had days where she would jump up on something she was not meant to be on, I would pull her off, she would jump back on, I would pull her off and so on (sometimes 3-4 times). However this only last a few weeks, now I say "off" and she gets off.

I know what you mean ... my youngest was perfect until he was about 6 months ... then he went feral. It was hard work to get him back under control - I didn't think either of us would survive it.

He is almost 3yrs (OMG where has the time gone) and a perfectly beautiful dog about 98% of the time but it is the 2% of the time that I want to kill him!!! :laugh:

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tilly

[mumof4girls]

My OH has contacted K9 pro ( paul) so we can train him as a family, as puppy class finishes in 3 more session OH isn't that happy about their methods, I also think I am too soft at times, anyway he is coming out later this month I think so I will also chat to him, I am adding this to my list ( poor guy :D )

I think the key is consistency. Set the rules as a family, and enforce them.

The joy of puppies is when they start to get alittle older and start to push the boundaries - they are working out if they really need to listen to you or not. A few months ago I have a word with my pup, who at the time was 9-10 months and told her "you will save us both alot of trouble if you just work out now you must do what I say!!!!".

We had days where she would jump up on something she was not meant to be on, I would pull her off, she would jump back on, I would pull her off and so on (sometimes 3-4 times). However this only last a few weeks, now I say "off" and she gets off.

LOL we have this with the garden, the little minx runs on it I say off and pull him off, he sneaks behind me ( i really think he does lol) and runs full pelt for the garden then down the side and I believe he hides behind a plant LOL .. I get him say off , this could go on 4 times or work once but inside I am laughing as he is like a naughty toddler , lol the look on his face is that he is having a ball, but I keep my stern voice as the garden is higher at the other end and he could hurt himself if he jumps off plus we don't want him on it.

[aussielover]

5.6kg for a 10 week old GSD sounds a little small to me, but it does depend on the individual dog. Most large breed pups are around the 7-10kg mark at 10 weeks in my experience

Is he small and light boned?

But if he has good rib coverage and no prominent bones, then he is ok.

I guess the concern with feeding raw to a puppy is that it is quite hard to get all the nutrient requirements right, especially for a large breed. However, if your breeder is experienced and has raised puppies successfully on a raw diet, it should be fine.

If you have a bad feeling with the vet then I recommend you see a new one. I think it is important to have a good and trusting relationship with your vet. If you don't trust your vets knowledge or decisions, there is really little point in continuing the relationship.

And, I think we need some photos of the little one :D

[Jumabaar]

5.6kg for a 10 week old GSD sounds a little small to me, but it does depend on the individual dog. Most large breed pups are around the 7-10kg mark at 10 weeks in my experience

Is he small and light boned?

But if he has good rib coverage and no prominent bones, then he is ok.

I guess the concern with feeding raw to a puppy is that it is quite hard to get all the nutrient requirements right, especially for a large breed. However, if your breeder is experienced and has raised puppies successfully on a raw diet, it should be fine.

If you have a bad feeling with the vet then I recommend you see a new one. I think it is important to have a good and trusting relationship with your vet. If you don't trust your vets knowledge or decisions, there is really little point in continuing the relationship.

And, I think we need some photos of the little one :D

Is it a GSD?? I thought an it was Airedale but happy to be wrong.

[dancinbcs]

Definitely ask the breeder for exact instructions on feeding. They will know what works with their dogs.

The puppy does sound underweight and the amount you are feeding is only about half what a 10 week old Border Collie would eat so nowhere near enough food. Some vets only believe in commercial food but the vet was probably pretty harsh because the puppy is underweight.

If you want to try a dry food again then I recommend Black Hawk. My current JS puppy is a light eater and wouldn't eat several dry foods but loves the Black Hawk. He is on partly raw with chicken wings or necks, etc and raw veges but I want him to eat dry as well as he may have to stay with his breeder sometimes for shows. I feed raw mainly raw, she feeds mainly dry.