My Neapolitan Mastiff Bit Me (a Serious Bite)

[Zug Zug]

Not sure if the OP is still watching this thread, but just in case you are, my experience as follows:

I have been attacked by a big dog once. He was a boxer (not big in your estimation I suspect, but he was at least 40-45 kg so a big boxer). His owners (my aunt and uncle) had wanted a strong dog who could defend their property. Unfortunately they did not have the knowledge/experience necessary to raise a dog that would do that but still be responsive to their commands. When he attacked me (inside their house - with no warning at all) they were unable to get him off me for some time. Eventually someone got some chains from the shed to drag him off. He spent years watching me whenever I had to come over, and made very clear to all of us he would like to finish the job if given a chance.

They had encouraged him in his anti-social and aggressive responses from a very young puppy. No one was supposed to pat him. If they tried, they would tell them off. If he growled, he was told good boy. They didn't realise where it was heading (although it sounds obvious now).

I was not the first person he attacked. The first person was my uncle's mother, who was swiftly taken off to hospital with some awful lacerations to her arms. I was the second that I know of, a few months later - also off to hospital with multiple punctures on my arms and a badly torn hand from where I had tried to fend him off. Lots of other small attacks that I know of. My cousin was the last of them. The dog had grown up with him - by this stage my cousin was a grown man. Off to hospital again - more stitches. This dog spent most of his 10 years tied securely by a chain to stop him from killing someone. My aunt (who had the responsibility of caring for him after my uncle walked out) had to be constantly on alert. But he was a lovely dog around the house with her, and as far as I am aware never hurt her. He eventually died of cancer.

With that in my mind, I would say a few things:

1. From your earlier posts, I think it is likely that you have encouraged strong, dominant and aggressive behaviour in your dog/s, because you admire strong types of dogs. I suspect you enjoy a bit of rough play etc., and you have been willing to accept food aggression (no doubt in the hope it would go away). I understand how easy it is to overlook these early signs (I have a dog aggressive dog at home - I am also guilty of this). But it's risky, and can lead to situations that are hard to control. Dogs that are trained to guard by experts are very, very carefully trained to STOP attacking on cue by the handler. In that sense it is not true aggression that is being taught. I don't think a novice can do this, as you have discovered. Don't kid yourself - if you keep the NEO you need to be training it to be a placid reliable dog and forget all about having it guard you and your home. Too dangerous - for him and for you. You would need to be completely consistent. Only Mark will know if this is possible at this late stage.

2. Both dogs are young and are likely to become more pushy with age - the Neo in particular by the sounds of things. Big commitment on your part to decide to keep both dogs and always keep them separate. Not something I would do actually - I think it will be stressful for you and risky for both dogs. Think long and hard before making this decision. It compromises the daily lives of all of you. Perhaps you can make that work, but it certainly won't be easy. In some cases, it can be more humane to put an aggressive dog to sleep in my view. Depends entirely on the situation of course.

3. As you now know, dog fights are incredibly stressful and it can be hard to know how you will react when confronted with a situation like that. I am personally nursing my own 13yo dog back to health currently after she was badly injured by a pound dog we tried to rehome. He had to go back to the pound - it was too dangerous for her. Don't rush your decision now. Just because you love the look and style of a Neo doesn't mean this is the right Neo for you. You may be better off in the long run getting a puppy you can raise from scratch to be a good dog.

Hoping you have some quieter days ahead.

[_PL_]

cybergenesis how did you end up with a lab when neos are your ideal breed?

I'd personally say loyalty should remain with dog #1, rehome newcomer dog #2.

But the neo is a worry... if you think he's not a PTS candidate already you may have to keep him instead. IMHO Don't rehome a dog with obvious issues, they only bounce from place to place.

[BoStoNmAdNeSs]

A Neo isnt a bullbreed...(minor point)

[Flaves]

People make mistakes

As long as the OP learns from his and sees a behaviourist - he can work on the issues at hand

[Loving my Oldies]

People make mistakes

As long as the OP learns from his and sees a behaviourist - he can work on the issues at hand

And his biggest mistake was thinking he would get only reasoned and helpful advice here. He has certainly been given that, but unfortunately it is in the minority, and he would need to be very calm and self contained to work through this thread to find it.

[LizT]

People make mistakes

As long as the OP learns from his and sees a behaviourist - he can work on the issues at hand

And his biggest mistake was thinking he would get only reasoned and helpful advice here. He has certainly been given that, but unfortunately it is in the minority, and he would need to be very calm and self contained to work through this thread to find it.

From what I have read of Cybergenisis post I'm quite sure he is realist enough and experienced enough in the real world to know that his story will have provoked various different responses from posters. I'm sure he is a big enough boy to be able to weed out what he will use and what he will disregard. That is after all the whole point of a public forum. ;)

[Flaves]

People make mistakes

As long as the OP learns from his and sees a behaviourist - he can work on the issues at hand

And his biggest mistake was thinking he would get only reasoned and helpful advice here. He has certainly been given that, but unfortunately it is in the minority, and he would need to be very calm and self contained to work through this thread to find it.

Agreed

but he can work through it to sort the wheat from the chaff (is that the saying?)

[m-sass]

I can't understand why the OP would get a Neo for protection reading his previous posts.......what, he knows better than the professionals who use GSD's, Rottweilers, Malinois Who uses Neo's enough here to be breeding the right traits, the dog to me sounds like a loose cannon, foggy headed with redirected aggression, I would PTS and get a proper protection dog personally, one actually bred from a history of producing the right traits?

[flame ryder]

I can't understand why the OP would get a Neo for protection reading his previous posts.......what, he knows better than the professionals who use GSD's, Rottweilers, Malinois Who uses Neo's enough here to be breeding the right traits, the dog to me sounds like a loose cannon, foggy headed with redirected aggression, I would PTS and get a proper protection dog personally, one actually bred from a history of producing the right traits?

yes like a Chihuahua

[Guest donatella]

:laugh:

I went out last night with my flatmate/friend and we got home at 4am. She invited her late night 'friend' over who happens to be a big football player. Big bloke, early hours of the morning and a very upset/barking Pomeranian. The guy was backed up against the wall shreiking 'she wont bite me will she, she won't hurt me will she'

Lol guard dog right there.

[persephone]

A nice solid ACD was my nanny dog for my first years ... not even my grandparents could pick me up without Mum ok' ing it,; he saved me from snakes a few times, and I used to be able to do anything with/to him ;) No one could touch mum, or enter our yard if he was 'on duty', either. 'protection' dog certainly doesn't need to be huge .

[BJean]

I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation.

Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back.

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog.

If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for.

I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc).

I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days.

I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :)

Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior.

The two dogs will not get along so you have to separate them. NO dog behaviorist is going to make two males get along particularly when one is of a breed that can be intolerant to the same sex.

Alrighty so from experience, probably more lengthy than I would prefer on such matters,

your solution is South Korea for Dog A and North Korea for Dog B.

So never again shall the two meet.

As for why you want a dog for protection, that's your business :) .

Contact Mark Singer ASAP, he'll put you on the right track. Don't make any decisions about rehoming until you've had a good talk with him.

As for the Neo biting you ... yes I'm not surprised. An up and coming dog, new to your household, all riled up after a fight and you acting in an aggressive manner. He did what a neo was bred to do, he was trying to tell you off for acting like a clown. I wouldnt call the dog HA considering its a guarding breed.

Contact Mark and let us know how you go.

Clearly Mark is of high repute and I'm all for bringing in the experts, actually I wonder why this wasn't done immediately following the incident weeks ago. I will admit I am also a little confused by your contradiction.

I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own. The Lab could certainly have done with professional help regarding his food protection issues ages ago.

I really don't see the contradiction.

[LizT]

I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation.

Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back.

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog.

If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for.

I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc).

I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days.

I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :)

Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior.

The two dogs will not get along so you have to separate them. NO dog behaviorist is going to make two males get along particularly when one is of a breed that can be intolerant to the same sex.

Alrighty so from experience, probably more lengthy than I would prefer on such matters,

your solution is South Korea for Dog A and North Korea for Dog B.

So never again shall the two meet.

As for why you want a dog for protection, that's your business :) .

Contact Mark Singer ASAP, he'll put you on the right track. Don't make any decisions about rehoming until you've had a good talk with him.

As for the Neo biting you ... yes I'm not surprised. An up and coming dog, new to your household, all riled up after a fight and you acting in an aggressive manner. He did what a neo was bred to do, he was trying to tell you off for acting like a clown. I wouldnt call the dog HA considering its a guarding breed.

Contact Mark and let us know how you go.

Clearly Mark is of high repute and I'm all for bringing in the experts, actually I wonder why this wasn't done immediately following the incident weeks ago. I will admit I am also a little confused by your contradiction.

I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own. The Lab could certainly have done with professional help regarding his food protection issues ages ago.

I really don't see the contradiction.

Lilli, I was quoting the fact that you said "No dog behaviourist is going to make two dogs get along.....and then the fact that you were giving a "thumbs up" to the behaviourist, as I supposed that was what Cybergenisis was hoping to achieve, a behaviourist that would be able to help him make peace between the two dogs.

However, Nekbet explained her perception of what a behaviourist would try to achieve, so the point has been clarified, to that extent, anyway. I guess it will really come down to what transpires between the behaviourist and Cybergenisis, as to what can and can't be achieved in his case.

I really, truly do hope for a satisfactory outcome for these dogs and their owner. I just feel a great deal of frustration, as I personally feel that this scenario was avoidable and is a result of not thinking things through, and perhaps being a bit over confidenct in ones own abilities at what could be achieved in a relationship involving two adult dogs who perhaps have had a poor introduction, and perhaps somewhat hurried, to be fighting within the first 1-2 weeks and not to have had assistance sooner and allowing the situation to excalate to the point where someone could have been hurt, even more seriously than they were.

Edited February 5, 2012 by LizT

[Carlo11]

I wish you luck with both of your dogs.Hard roads ahead . . .

[BJean]

Lilli, I was quoting the fact that you said "No dog behaviourist is going to make two dogs get along.....and then the fact that you were giving a "thumbs up" to the behaviourist, as I supposed that was what Cybergenisis was hoping to achieve, a behaviourist that would be able to help him make peace between the two dogs.

Well it is true, a professional cannot make two dogs as in the OP scenario, get along.

The behaviorist in this instance, would be to help the OP understand his own dogs' behaviour, and so manage the two dogs better.

[LizT]

Lilli, I was quoting the fact that you said "No dog behaviourist is going to make two dogs get along.....and then the fact that you were giving a "thumbs up" to the behaviourist, as I supposed that was what Cybergenisis was hoping to achieve, a behaviourist that would be able to help him make peace between the two dogs.

Well it is true, a professional cannot make two dogs as in the OP scenario, get along.

The behaviorist in this instance, would be to help the OP understand his own dogs' behaviour, and so manage the two dogs better.

In your opinion lilli, do you think a behaviourist would have been able to help the OP to introduce the two dogs with a view to having them "co habitat" or (any two entire males for that matter) or do you think given that the Lab has some 'history' of abuse that caused his "food agression" that he was an unlikely candidate to begin with.

I guess there's is no point speculating as the damage has been done. Even if the behaviouist does help the OP to better manage his dogs do you think living in close proxcimity, when they clearly will not get along, is not going to cause them further anxiety?

Edited February 6, 2012 by LizT

[♪♫LMBC♫♪]

My advice? Rehome both dogs. If they are not able to be safely rehomed, pts. Then don't get another dog again, ever.

And get some help for your anger management problem before you hurt someone.

[kinsella]

My advice? Rehome both dogs. If they are not able to be safely rehomed, pts. Then don't get another dog again, ever.

And get some help for your anger management problem before you hurt someone.

+1

[Nekhbet]

I went out last night with my flatmate/friend and we got home at 4am. She invited her late night 'friend' over who happens to be a big football player. Big bloke, early hours of the morning and a very upset/barking Pomeranian. The guy was backed up against the wall shreiking 'she wont bite me will she, she won't hurt me will she'

Lol guard dog right there.

Hey don't laugh I had a pomeranian attached to my boob once ... little bugger swung up and latched on, growling and thrashing. Then got me on the hand too. Those little one's bite like a rabid ferret I wouldn't be game either

[LizT]

I went out last night with my flatmate/friend and we got home at 4am. She invited her late night 'friend' over who happens to be a big football player. Big bloke, early hours of the morning and a very upset/barking Pomeranian. The guy was backed up against the wall shreiking 'she wont bite me will she, she won't hurt me will she'

Lol guard dog right there.

Hey don't laugh I had a pomeranian attached to my boob once ... little bugger swung up and latched on, growling and thrashing. Then got me on the hand too. Those little one's bite like a rabid ferret I wouldn't be game either

A workmate of mine has a young sugar glider and she has to make a mental note to not let him out of his cage UNTIL she has put her T-shirt on first!!!! Otherwise Owwwweeeeeyaaa!! He's a little boob man! :laugh: