My Neapolitan Mastiff Bit Me (a Serious Bite)

[redangel]

Ok so it seems we have "one of those kinda" male seeks status dog owners perhaps??? Maybe taking up Karate is a cheaper option.

[LizT]

Ok so it seems we have "one of those kinda" male seeks status dog owners perhaps??? Maybe taking up Karate is a cheaper option.

Reputable Dojos usually weed out those with no self control.

[Aphra]

A good Neo shouldn't have a short fuse, they should be very stable in temperament. The breed standard says, "Steady and loyal in character, not aggressive nor liable to bite without reason." And while they are protective, they are are guardian breed, not personal protection dogs, and there is a difference I think.

My male Neo lived to be 7 and my female is almost that old and still doing OK, despite having incredibly poor conformation.

Stupid question but WHY do you feel the need to have a dog for protection? Protection dogs are trained...not undisciplined dogs that have a short fuse. Dogs are not naturally able to differentiate between friend and foe...nor is it responsible to think that such a dog is going to be controllable without training.

[LizT]

A good Neo shouldn't have a short fuse, they should be very stable in temperament. The breed standard says, "Steady and loyal in character, not aggressive nor liable to bite without reason." And while they are protective, they are are guardian breed, not personal protection dogs, and there is a difference I think.

My male Neo lived to be 7 and my female is almost that old and still doing OK, despite having incredibly poor conformation.

Stupid question but WHY do you feel the need to have a dog for protection? Protection dogs are trained...not undisciplined dogs that have a short fuse. Dogs are not naturally able to differentiate between friend and foe...nor is it responsible to think that such a dog is going to be controllable without training.

I think it would be fair to summise the "reason" is that the poor animal became distressed due to the angry and violent outburst of the OP directly after and while still andrenaline pumped following it's confrontation with the other entire male dog (Labrador).

[BJean]

I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation.

Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back.

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog.

If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for.

I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc).

I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days.

I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :)

Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior.

The two dogs will not get along so you have to separate them. NO dog behaviorist is going to make two males get along particularly when one is of a breed that can be intolerant to the same sex.

Alrighty so from experience, probably more lengthy than I would prefer on such matters,

your solution is South Korea for Dog A and North Korea for Dog B.

So never again shall the two meet.

As for why you want a dog for protection, that's your business :) .

Edited February 2, 2012 by lilli

[BJean]

I resisted replying earlier cause I wanted to hear replies from the OP.

A few further variables that need to be considered in the equation

- 13 mo is quite young to start showing male-male aggression. With larger breeds it's not uncommon to go through a temperament change between 1 and 3 years. Guarding responses generally get stronger in my experience, as do dog aggression problems.

13 months is about spot on for the average tempered dog.

The more self-assured individuals start months younger, particularly when they live under the same roof.

And then you have some super sharp cases that think they're all that by 12 and 16 weeks.

[BJean]

Contact Mark Singer ASAP, he'll put you on the right track. Don't make any decisions about rehoming until you've had a good talk with him.

As for the Neo biting you ... yes I'm not surprised. An up and coming dog, new to your household, all riled up after a fight and you acting in an aggressive manner. He did what a neo was bred to do, he was trying to tell you off for acting like a clown. I wouldnt call the dog HA considering its a guarding breed.

Contact Mark and let us know how you go.

[redangel]

Edit note: I wasnt implying that as a breed Neos have short fuses. What I was trying to express is that it is wrong to equate a dogs displaying aggressive behaviour excessively (whether that be to human or animal) as a desirable trait and a 'good' protection animal. Im my vet nursing experience many "such types" of people use this as a reason to purpetuate or not inhibit such behaviour when really all they are doing is excusing a potentially dangerous animal. Trust me when it takes three people a muzzle and a pole to vaccinate an animal it doesnt do the animal or those in contact with the dog other than the owner it so "protects" any favors. Again I am not saying the OP dog is like this but I have seen many such dogs bought "to protect me" who given time & no discipline turn to this.

I hope this Neo gets all the help it needs as I would imagine under the right guidance it should thrive into a better example of the breed. ie loyal steadfast guardian breed as noted by Aphra.

[Nekhbet]

Edit note: I wasnt implying that as a breed Neos have short fuses. What I was trying to express is that it is wrong to equate a dogs displaying aggressive behaviour excessively (whether that be to human or animal) as a desirable trait and a 'good' protection animal. Im my vet nursing experience many "such types" of people use this as a reason to purpetuate or not inhibit such behaviour when really all they are doing is excusing a potentially dangerous animal. Trust me when it takes three people a muzzle and a pole to vaccinate an animal it doesnt do the animal or those in contact with the dog other than the owner it so "protects" any favors. Again I am not saying the OP dog is like this but I have seen many such dogs bought "to protect me" who given time & no discipline turn to this.

I hope this Neo gets all the help it needs as I would imagine under the right guidance it should thrive into a better example of the breed. ie loyal steadfast guardian breed as noted by Aphra.

there is a difference between controlled training and simply an out of control train hurtling down the track ... you know it's only going to end in disaster.

[LizT]

I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation.

Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back.

Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog.

If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for.

I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc).

I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days.

I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :)

Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior.

The two dogs will not get along so you have to separate them. NO dog behaviorist is going to make two males get along particularly when one is of a breed that can be intolerant to the same sex.

Alrighty so from experience, probably more lengthy than I would prefer on such matters,

your solution is South Korea for Dog A and North Korea for Dog B.

So never again shall the two meet.

As for why you want a dog for protection, that's your business :) .

Contact Mark Singer ASAP, he'll put you on the right track. Don't make any decisions about rehoming until you've had a good talk with him.

As for the Neo biting you ... yes I'm not surprised. An up and coming dog, new to your household, all riled up after a fight and you acting in an aggressive manner. He did what a neo was bred to do, he was trying to tell you off for acting like a clown. I wouldnt call the dog HA considering its a guarding breed.

Contact Mark and let us know how you go.

Clearly Mark is of high repute and I'm all for bringing in the experts, actually I wonder why this wasn't done immediately following the incident weeks ago. I will admit I am also a little confused by your contradiction.

I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own. The Lab could certainly have done with professional help regarding his food protection issues ages ago.

[Erny]

I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own.

"The point of the expert" is to assess the dogs - their behaviours, their relationship between one another and their relationship to the owner, to explain to and show and guide the owner as to how to make the best of the situation based on what s/he has seen and heard, as best as best can be, with safety and humanity being paramount. What the expert will do is not something pre-determined and set in concrete - certainly not without meeting the owner and the dogs first.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Erny

[LizT]

I guess the point of the expert is NOT to make the boys get along so much as help make them good K9 citizens on their own.

"The point of the expert" is to assess the dogs - their behaviours, their relationship between one another and their relationship to the owner, to explain to and show and guide the owner as to how to make the best of the situation based on what s/he has seen and heard, as best as best can be, with safety and humanity being paramount. What the expert will do is not something pre-determined and set in concrete - certainly not without meeting the owner and the dogs first.

Exactly, many a fool has purchased a dog for "Property Protection", the old Junk Yard dog syndrome, wherethe dog is likely to attack anyone stupid enough to enter the property. The owner stupidly thinking that it will be included in the 'goods itinery' and surely siad dog would not 'bite the hand that feeds it' only to find when push comes to shove and the dog is roused that he to becomes a target.

[Sheridan]

A lot of people, I suppose, think they can resolve issues on their own and only as a last resort asks for advice. This, of course, applies equally to asking for advice on dogs and seeking to resolve their own owner issues.

[LizT]

A lot of people, I suppose, think they can resolve issues on their own and only as a last resort asks for advice. This, of course, applies equally to asking for advice on dogs and seeking to resolve their own owner issues.

Yes, and sometime when one has had advise and training help in the past they apply what has been learnt, but sadly, sometimes it is an individual problem and a "one size fits all" solution isn't going to work.

And sometimes people 'ask' for advice but it is really just confirmation of what they already subconciously know they should do.

[sandgrubber]

I resisted replying earlier cause I wanted to hear replies from the OP.

A few further variables that need to be considered in the equation

- 13 mo is quite young to start showing male-male aggression. With larger breeds it's not uncommon to go through a temperament change between 1 and 3 years. Guarding responses generally get stronger in my experience, as do dog aggression problems.

13 months is about spot on for the average tempered dog.

The more self-assured individuals start months younger, particularly when they live under the same roof.

And then you have some super sharp cases that think they're all that by 12 and 16 weeks.

I should have said, after several years of working with thousands of dogs in a boarding kennel (I did most of the feeding, cleaning, and exercise supervision for 5 yrs), I'd say 13 mo is young . . . and if its bad now, it's likely to be much worse six months from now.

Your breed may have a higher propensity for males to fight . . . and start relatively. Or my observations may wrong. Our problem Akita didn't start being a problem until ~ 2 yrs . . . the GSD problems show indications at a year or so, but don't seem to get nasty till ~18 mo. With Labs (my own breed), well socialised entire males are generally ok together, but caution is needed when there's a bitch on season around.

Edited February 3, 2012 by sandgrubber

[Sheridan]

A lot of people, I suppose, think they can resolve issues on their own and only as a last resort asks for advice. This, of course, applies equally to asking for advice on dogs and seeking to resolve their own owner issues.

Yes, and sometime when one has had advise and training help in the past they apply what has been learnt, but sadly, sometimes it is an individual problem and a "one size fits all" solution isn't going to work.

And sometimes people 'ask' for advice but it is really just confirmation of what they already subconciously know they should do.

Also, some people ask for advice and then get annoyed when it isn't the advice they wanted.

[LizT]

A lot of people, I suppose, think they can resolve issues on their own and only as a last resort asks for advice. This, of course, applies equally to asking for advice on dogs and seeking to resolve their own owner issues.

Yes, and sometime when one has had advise and training help in the past they apply what has been learnt, but sadly, sometimes it is an individual problem and a "one size fits all" solution isn't going to work.

And sometimes people 'ask' for advice but it is really just confirmation of what they already subconciously know they should do.

Also, some people ask for advice and then get annoyed when it isn't the advice they wanted.

Isn't the saying "truth hurts". It can be hard to accept at times that we have made bad choices.

[wantsapuppy]

Definantly sound like you made a bad choice. Action should of been taken after the very first incident, not 3 months down the track. I highly doubt that you will end up with nice placid dogs anymore. My bet is that they will proberly end up dog aggressive . I hope you intend in buyinga muZZLE. For when you walk them? I would hate to see someone else's dog attacked .

[ChristineX]

I think some people might want to settle down a bit - the OP is learning the way we all learn - by experience. He's also aready contacting a good behaviouralist/trainer, as per advice here on DOL. Also, most of us wind up on DOL because we have problems/issues with our dogs - and then stay to pass on what we have learnt.

I do look forward to updates from the OP - because I always learn a little bit more, and because I do like it when things can be worked out.

Keep in mind, he hasn't dumped either of his dogs, he's been looking for help - otherwise the dogs would not now be desexed, and he's committed to finding a way, and happy to look at whatever will help him in that. That's good dog ownership, in my mind.

[LizT]

Hi,sorry for your dramas but I have to say I think you have caused it.Dog fights are stressful moments for sure but its how you act that can affect the dogs.Punching and kicking a fully grown adult entire male Neo is not a smart thing to do considering you didnt raise it.You are lucky he didnt go you then and thereBreaking sticks work no matter what dog and is easir to break the hold and tow them away.He bit you becuase of your strange behaviour afterwards and he was still amped.I personally steer away from adult dogs but alos depends on the situation.Even though you have altered both dogs I wouldnt trust that to be the cure as the damage is already done and becuase of so many altercations it will happen again.I think it is best to rehome the labrador if you are not that attached to it.Neo's can be headstrong dogs and dominant/Behaviourists can give you good advice but at the end of the day they wont be there 24 7.Its easier and for piece of mind to move on with the one dog and if you get another get a female from a pup.Just my 2 cents.

Thanks for that. In regards to hitting the Neo, I realize this was not a good idea. I was in a panic because my Labrador was in serious trouble. I have read since to pull them by their back legs or tail (though this risks being bit as well).

I won't be putting them back together unless there has been extensive work done with both dogs, but yeah it may not be possible.

I think some people might want to settle down a bit - the OP is learning the way we all learn - by experience. He's also aready contacting a good behaviouralist/trainer, as per advice here on DOL. Also, most of us wind up on DOL because we have problems/issues with our dogs - and then stay to pass on what we have learnt.

I do look forward to updates from the OP - because I always learn a little bit more, and because I do like it when things can be worked out.

Keep in mind, he hasn't dumped either of his dogs, he's been looking for help - otherwise the dogs would not now be desexed, and he's committed to finding a way, and happy to look at whatever will help him in that. That's good dog ownership, in my mind.

Really, I find so much inconsistency in his tale. He says he watched a video of how to break up dog fights in Sept last year...............

cybergenesis

Forum Member

Posts: 47 Joined: 04-January 11 Posted 13 September 2011 - 03:15 PM

wuffles, on 13 September 2011 - 02:08 PM, said:

cybergenesis, on 13 September 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

So it sounds like this mans injuries were not severe. He got a significant bite to his arm and a scratch to his face...

Anybody knows when dogs are fighting that you don't just put your arm into the middle of them... Der...

That's all well and good, but when it's YOUR OWN dog getting attacked, the reality is that most of us would do the same thing. Doesn't absolve the attacking dog and their owner of responsibility.

Not me. I would grab the back legs of the attacking dog and wheelbarrow him off. I watched a video on how to break up dog fights.

I am not blaming the victim here, just saying, as a dog owner, he should have had a little bit more common sense, but the onus of responsibility lies on the other dog owner.

..........And yet punches the crap out of his dog, and has a screaming, punching fit that sets the dog to attack him!

What's responsible about that?

I guess at least he is trying to get help and will probably be feeling pretty bad about what happened.

Edited February 4, 2012 by LizT