❤LovesPoodles❤ Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 to Liz T spot on and K9 angel too I just hope the lab finds a loving home where he can feel safe. You adopt him, then put his life in danger several times and his the one to go : When I'm sure the breeder of the neo would easily take it back and is experienced with the breed which you clearly are not tho it is the "ideal" dog for you! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Ok I think some peoples responses here are a little emotive, but I have also received some pretty good advice here too. Initially the fights were occasionally, once I realized it was totally out of control- the dogs were separated. Each time they thought they received medical attention. Obviously I had hoped to be able to stop the fighting, but this did not work out. In regards to getting rid of the Labrador, this has nothing to do with my love for either dog. I love the Labrador more, as I have owned him more, but I have also formed a bond with Neapolitan, and love him too. Besides the bad stuff you have heard about the Neo, he is otherwise a FANTASTIC, placid dog. He has NEVER been out of control EXCEPT immediately around the time of fighting with the other dog. My decision to get rid of the Labrador is not final, indeed I am now leaning towards keeping both dogs, but enhancing my property so that I can be absolutely certain no "accidents" will occur (the dogs getting at each other). The reason I chose the Labrador was based on dispassionate logic. The Labrador is mostly a family type dog (besides its tendency to food guard). I think it is easier to place a Labrador with a loving family than find the right sort of assertive owner for a Neapolitan, as because people may have the wrong motive for getting such a dog. Also the Labrador is TOTALLY non-aggressive to humans, except when food guarding and he doesn't like people touching his injuries. I would never give away the Labrador unless I was CERTAIN he was going to a great home, in such circumstances I don't have a major problem giving up the dog, though of course I would miss him. But as I said, I'm not leaning that way at the moment. I'll talk to Mark before deciding. One last thing for the Lab lovers, the Lab is treated BETTER than the Neo. I allow the Lab inside and he is inside most of the time, whereas the Neo stays outside the majority of the time. I treat my dogs very well, how many of you feed your dogs a diet based mostly on human grade meat? Edit: I also wanted to add why Neo's are my favorite type of dog. Believe it or not my 2nd favorite type of dogs are Labradors. Neo's are large. I am a very large man myself (125kg), I just like large dogs- I think they suit me. Neo's are generally quite lazy and placid and require minimal exercise. Indeed they like nothing more than sitting around near their owner lazing and have low energy levels. I am quite lazy myself (except when it comes to caring for my dogs), and these attributes are very appealing to me. I am a slow paced sort of person. Neo's don't bark very much: Dogs that bark excessively really get on my nerves. Indeed my Labrador barks a lot more than my Neo. I know the look is not for everyone, but I absolutely love the look of the Neo's- to me they are the most beautiful of all dogs, yes I know many other people prefer other dogs, but this is my preference. I love the unique way they walk. I love their long, wrinkled skin. I love the grunting and other funny noises that they make. I even love the fact my Neo snores loudly. I like the strong, assertive temperaments of the Neo. Also as a secondary consideration to getting a companion, I personally want a dog that is able to protect me if it is absolutely necessary. I absolutely believe if somebody attacked me aggressively my Neo would intervene, yet he is very placid around people in normal circumstances, as I make an effort to extensively socialize him with people. Many people pat him on my walks with him, and he is totally friendly. Indeed almost every walk somebody pats him. The other part of him protecting me is that he is a great deterrence, I doubt almost anybody would think of hurting me when that dog is around, he looks very powerful. You might say this is a stupid reason, but I have been a victim of a violent crime, and I live in probably the highest crime neighborhoods in my state, as well as one of the most socioeconomically disadvantaged. My Neo makes me feel very secure, but I certainly NEVER encourage aggression in my Neo, he has natural guarding instincts that do not need fueling. Edited February 1, 2012 by cybergenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirst_goldens Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 interesting that the lab has issues guarding food - if he shows aggressions towards humans over food u may have a rough time rehoming him... another thing to mention to the behaviourist as im sure he would have loads of ideas to help u there - do let us know how u get on and get on the phone to him ASAP this is not something to do in a week or 2 as im sure u would appriciate - its tough seperating ur dogs... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 interesting that the lab has issues guarding food - if he shows aggressions towards humans over food u may have a rough time rehoming him... another thing to mention to the behaviourist as im sure he would have loads of ideas to help u there - do let us know how u get on and get on the phone to him ASAP this is not something to do in a week or 2 as im sure u would appriciate - its tough seperating ur dogs... Your probably right about the food guarding issue. I just deal with it by putting it outside, away from others. He used to be owned by rough teenagers who used to tease him and take away his food (as well as rough him up a great deal), so that's where he got the issue from. He used to be quite wild, but he has calmed down incredibly except with the food guarding and injury protection. Besides that he is very used to people, but I wouldn't recommend him to a home with *young* children. Older, educated children should be fine. I will mention all this to the behaviorist. I will be pretty busy over the next few days but I will get back here eventually and update this thread in the hopes the information the expert provides may be useful to others in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I resisted replying earlier cause I wanted to hear replies from the OP. A few further variables that need to be considered in the equation - 13 mo is quite young to start showing male-male aggression. With larger breeds it's not uncommon to go through a temperament change between 1 and 3 years. Guarding responses generally get stronger in my experience, as do dog aggression problems. - The Neo is a breed with lots of health problems. Breed longevity data is absurdly bad . . . but the two data-based estimates I can find for life expectancy of a Neo are 2.2 years and 4 yr 11 mo. Labs, on the other hand, tend to be good for at least 10 yr, even in the sources that give short lifespans. Before deciding to rehome your Lab and keep your Neo, you might do well to make sure the Neo is in very good health. You can Google the breed health problems and find out what to look out for. You're going to feel horrible if you rehome your Lab and then face major, painful, and expensive health problems with the Neo. X-rays, at a minimum, to rule out OCD/HD. A breeder's website to look at http://runestone.neapolitan.us/Health.html p.s. some puppies are laid back because that's their temperament. Others don't like to move because they hurt. Edited February 1, 2012 by sandgrubber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 good luck i hope it all works out and you and your dogs can all enjoy your lives together :) do let us know how you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have 2 dogs that will fight to the death on occasion - alpha females, both desexed. Their last fight was almost 2 years ago now... because they are always separated. One is a Labrador, and the other is a Rottie/Pittie - and the Labrador is actually the one that goes for the kill during a fight. If you work out a routine that keeps them both separated, and each gets some one-on-one time with you each day, then it's not that hard to manage to keep them both - I know, because that's how I have to manage mine, and I'm not a 125kg man... *grin* If I owned your 2 dogs, I'd be concerned about rehoming either of them after they have both shown tendencies to bite both humans and other dogs - I know the Neo was reacting to your hissy fit, but he's still only a young dog, and may still mature into a more dominant boy. I know from experience what it's like to own 2 dogs that don't get on, but it CAN be managed to the benefit of all. Personally, I wouldn't try to reintroduce them to each other, but you need to talk to a fully qualified and experienced behaviourist/trainer about that, and forever be on your guard for what may trigger the 2 to fight. No behaviourist/trainer is going to be able to wave a magic wand over a few sessions and "cure" your dogs of their dislike for each other - it will be a lifetime of you working with them to ensure that a fight never happens again. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You allowed the lab in while leaving the neo out, elevating him up, neo smacked him back down. You need to mention all this when you have the consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The reason I chose the Labrador was based on dispassionate logic. The Labrador is mostly a family type dog (besides its tendency to food guard). I think it is easier to place a Labrador with a loving family than find the right sort of assertive owner for a Neapolitan, as because people may have the wrong motive for getting such a dog. Also the Labrador is TOTALLY non-aggressive to humans, except when food guarding and he doesn't like people touching his injuries. That doesn't sound totally non aggressive to me??? I really don't think either of your dogs are rehomable at this stage with the description you have provided. Please get them assessed by a professional before considering rehoming either of them. It would be unfair to rehome a food aggressive, possibly dog aggressive (at the least a dog that will likely have issues with large entire males) dog to a new home, regardless of whether they have kids or not. The fact that you think food aggression is a minor issue and have difficulty seeing that your labrador probably has pyschological damage from the continued attacks, which may manifest in behavioural problems at some stage, and yet you still think this dog is rehomable is worrying. Please get both dogs assessed ASAP. Good luck with it, I really hope it works out for the poor lab... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I hope your time with the behaviourist helps you sort out all the variables in this ..and provides some sort of solution which will allow both dogs security and a home. The lab certainly is not totally un-agressive, unfortunately , and a good assessment will be invaluable when considering his future. ;) BTW, you will find that a high proportion of dog owners on here only feed human grade food to their dogs . good luck with it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 A few further variables that need to be considered in the equation- 13 mo is quite young to start showing male-male aggression. With larger breeds it's not uncommon to go through a temperament change between 1 and 3 years. Guarding responses generally get stronger in my experience, as do dog aggression problems. - The Neo is a breed with lots of health problems. Breed longevity data is absurdly bad . . . but the two data-based estimates I can find for life expectancy of a Neo are 2.2 years and 4 yr 11 mo. Labs, on the other hand, tend to be good for at least 10 yr, even in the sources that give short lifespans. 13 months old is not too young for some dogs. We don't know why the dogs had their arguments it could be something manageable because from the sounds of it the owner is not actually top dog there at his place. Otherwise the Neo wouldnt have dropped him like a sack of potatoes when he had his angry momemt (and those judging him for it ... please ... a dog fight is extremely stressful and I probably would have done the same thing) As for the life span where did you get that info O_o I know plenty of people with Neos that have lived a lot longer then that easily. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I agree with Erny, the guy is calling Mark so everyone belting on about it is just getting old. See what the OP can do about it Marks a sensible person with experience in large and guarding breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Keep an eye on that bite if it was stitched up. The only bite that I had stitched got badly infected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 As for the life span where did you get that info O_o I know plenty of people with Neos that have lived a lot longer then that easily. Don't believe everything you read on the internet. The lifespan data came from the UK Kennel Club 2004 health survey and the Finnish Kennel Club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 I've read 7-9 and longer . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:55 PM Cosmolo, on 30 August 2011 - 02:53 PM, said: How can you plan on owning one when its illegal to breed or import them? Dude pitbull types breeds are widely available and certain other restricted breeds are also available (especially Dogo Argentino) if you know where to go... The dog I would really like though is Fila Brasileiro This post has been edited by cybergenesis: 30 August 2011 - 02:57 PM Probably a good thing you went and got a docile dog like a Neo. I imagine you would not have had the opportunity to talk about your serious dog bite. You would have made front page news though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mish13 Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Post deleted Edited February 2, 2012 by mish13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Stupid question but WHY do you feel the need to have a dog for protection? Protection dogs are trained...not undisciplined dogs that have a short fuse. Dogs are not naturally able to differentiate between friend and foe...nor is it responsible to think that such a dog is going to be controllable without training. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Stupid question but WHY do you feel the need to have a dog for protection? Protection dogs are trained...not undisciplined dogs that have a short fuse. Dogs are not naturally able to differentiate between friend and foe...nor is it responsible to think that such a dog is going to be controllable without training. This is why redangel ,though you may not understand, bein a "poodle" owner and all. ;) cybergenesis Forum Member Posts: 47 Joined: 04-January 11 State:SA Posted 30 August 2011 - 04:16 PM poodlefan, on 30 August 2011 - 03:19 PM, said: megan_, on 30 August 2011 - 03:13 PM, said: PF - this is the same person who says they want to own a human aggressive dog. For protecting his/her yard. Got a few applauses too? No doubt. There is a place in this world IMO for dogs prepared to do harm to humans who simply trespass. IMO Australia is not one of those places and a dog with the temperament of the Fila needs to be carefully placed in the right homes anywhere. A correctly temperamented Fila will do more than just guard.. so when little Timmy comes uninvited over the fence looking for his tennis ball, he won't be leaving in one piece. I'd say he wont' be leaving anyway but in a coffin. Anyone who could casually say that they wish to own such a dog in an urban setting in this country needs their head read. Place that argument in a place like Johannesburg and its a whole new ball game. What ever "poodle fan". I live in one of the roughest neighborhoods in Australia, we had over 5 murders in this suburb last year and many, many other bashings, sexual assaults and attacks. Just cause you live in posh poodle ville doesn't give you a right to judge. I've only been here a year and I have already had my place broken into and my possession stolen, including my former dog (which was a labradore). You can really go stuff your opinions. Little Timmy isn't going to be coming over my 3 metre high fence, I don't have any kids as neighbors and all the neighbors are long term. Its none of your bloody business why I want a specific dog or not, and I have every right to have a guard dog that is capable of taking down an intruder for my protection (well I should have that right, if Australia wasn't such a gutless cotton wool nanny state). I have a right to protect myself whatever you may think. You may like dogs that are "like little poodles" but I like real dogs with assertive temperaments that are capable of protecting me. BTW You would make a great leader for this nanny state, seeing as you like to judge other peoples business. I am a responsible owner, entirely capable of managing my dog and restricting my dog to my property. You are a clown who likes to think people are too irresponsible to handle things and everything should be banned. Oh and "poodlefan", there are many non-banned breeds which are quite capable of mauling to death little Timmy, I have met great danes and other dogs that would maul little Timmy if he jumped the back fence, its not the breed, its how the dog is trained and socialized, its hypocritical and deluded reasoning that thinks some breeds are "bad". There is no such thing as an evil or bad breed of dog. Screw the government banning everything (especially dogs), because of the extremely small minority of dog attacks by irresponsible dog owners (you know instead of actually holding those owners heavily responsible). Ban cars, ban back yard pools, ban swimming, ban sports, lets all wrap the whole of society in cotton wool and take away all of our liberties, otherwise poodlefan might have nightmares about the bad things that could happen. OH WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN! This post has been edited by cybergenesis: 30 August 2011 - 04:37 PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 wow charming character, wonder how he got his lab back or is it another one that is being maauled by his neo. Certainly can't seem to manage his dogs too well at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) wow charming character, wonder how he got his lab back or is it another one that is being maauled by his neo. Certainly can't seem to manage his dogs too well at all. Yes, you didn't need a Fortune Teller to see this was in the cards. cybergenesis Forum Member Posts: 47 Joined: 04-January 11 State:SA Posted 30 August 2011 - 02:41 PM I wouldn't have a problem registering my dog, but the problem is I don't want my dog desexed. I prefer having my dog natural. I like the temperament of dogs that are not desexed, they are more energetic, playful and alert. My dog is not around any female dogs. It is ENTIRELY secured in my backyard with 3 metre high fences, and two sets of locked gates between the backyard and the road. WHY THE HELL SHOULD I HAVE TO HAVE MY DOGS NUTS CUT OFF? Fair enough if you don't want your dogs desexed, but guess what...they've both had the snip now and it probably won't make one iota of difference. Edited February 2, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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