cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hi. I have owned an adopted entire male Labrador for about 2 years now, and I love dogs so much I decided to get another one. The dog that interested me the most was the Neapolitan Mastiff (These are my *IDEAL* dogs). I didn't want a puppy at this stage, believe it or not I actually don't like puppies much, I prefer mature dogs. Well I bought an entire male Neapolitan Mastiff named Ziggy from interstate. He was 13 months old when I got him, and I have him for about 4 months now. Now before you say anything, yes I was aware of potential problems between two entire male dogs. However my Labrador is used to other dogs, and I was told the Neo was raised with several other dogs, so I thought hopefully they will get along. Well for the first 1-2 weeks they did. Then they started having vicious fights, which the Labrador always severely lost (but not in spirit- he would never back down). Various things triggered this, and I did everything in my power to stop it. Every time they got injured I would have to call the vet to get antibiotics, stitches etc. Well it got worst and worst until the last fight, in which the Neo had the labrador on the ground with a death-hold on the Labradore throat. Now note this happened as I w as running late to leave the house to go to court, I was having a VERY, VERY bad day when the fight started/ I feared the Labrador would be killed, so not knowing any way to seperate them, I attempt to use sheer force to force off the neo. I struck him several times around the head and body with maximum force in an attempt to "shock" him to let go (I am large, strong male, I weigh 125kg, so I can deliver a forceful blow). Incredibly the neo IGNORED the punches and kicks and seemed unfazed. Indeed I threw buckets of water over them, but even that wouldn't break it up. Well eventually he did let go, and since this I have kept the dogs totally separate (thankfully both my front and back yards are separate and secure areas to put the dogs separately). Now. Just after this fight, I was having A MENTAL FIT, not at the dogs, as I had put the Labrador inside. I started kicking and screaming and hitting the water tank in the backyard to let off some steam (I mean I knew this was going to cost me another couple of hundred dollars I couldn't really afford, and that i had missed court etc). Well as I was doing this, paying absolutely no attention to the mastiff, Ziggy came up from behind me and bit me on the side of my back, but I did not notice this at the time. I was so angry I did not feel the pain, but I did notice the dog was going for me, and realized he must still have adrenalin running through his system from the fight. When I went inside I realized the bite was quite bad- not extremely bad- but pretty nasty, several DEEP punctures. I had to get antibiotics, a tetanus shot and stitches. Believe it or not, my neo is a wonderful dog. And so is my Labrador. Besides the fighting and the one time I got bit, I have never had any other problems with either dog. They are outstanding. On the advice of the vet, I have now neutered both dogs. But I am just not sure about ever re-inducing them. They want to IMMEDIATELY go for each other at ANY chance, I am always worried about the small risk I will accidentally leave a gate or door open and they will get each other, but it hasn't happened yet! Has anybody got any advice? I would prefer to keep both dogs, but if I do get rid of one, it will be the Labrador, only because he would be much easier to rehome than a Neapolitan Mastiff, which is not a dog for everyone. I don't blame the Neo for biting me, but it has been a reminder experience that Neo's are serious dogs, with serious instincts and serious power. One thing I can tell everyone is to make sure your Neo knows you are the boss, I always keep my height above that of the neo and insist he obeys me before getting what he wamts. But both dogs are quite submissive to me, and definately consider me the leader. But both dogs are perhaps Alpha males, and both dogs have always considered themselves the pack leader with other dogs (I have never seen any other dog succeed in dominating either of my dogs). Well that is about all the information I can think of. Any advice from anyone would be appreciated, I am doing my best to manage this situation, but I cannot have another serious dog fight occur, it is a serious danger to both dogs, but especially the Labrador. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pheebs Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I'll leave the behavioural advice to the experts, but wanted to wish you all the best. Is it possible that you scared the living cr*p out of Ziggy during said "fit" hence the bite? Edited February 1, 2012 by Pheebs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leema Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation. Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) I think you need to get a behavioural consult from someone who can see both dogs and make an assessment. Aggression is not something to be resolved by internet consultation. Have you contacted Ziggy's breeder? Perhaps they'd be happy to take him back. Nah I don't want to get rid of Ziggy, besides the bite, he is my ideal type of dog. If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for. I am thinking of doing further upgrades to the property so there is even more protection from them getting at each other if a gate is left open etc (Could have two sets of gates etc). I have sent a few emails to some animal behavioral experts and said I am willing to pay the fee etc, I am just waiting for a response which should come within a few days. I am not just after advice, hehe sort of wanted a slight bit of sympathy :) My back is still healing weeks later, but he just got flesh, no organs or anything :) Oh also very interested in other person dog bite stories. I want to learn as much as I can about such behavior. Edited February 1, 2012 by cybergenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I completely agree with getting a professional behaviourist to assess both dogs, preferably in your home environment as this is where the problem lies. An email reply alone is not enough, and some "professionals" are a lot better than others!!! Where abouts are you located? Someone here may be able to recommend a behaviourist for you. Perhaps it may have helped to introduce them for the first time on neutral ground (a park for example) although this can't be undone now. I hope you are able to sort this out. I do feel for the Lab I'm glad you seem to understand that the Neo is a type of breed that needs a very dedicated and firm owner. Unfortunately, if my dog had seriously bitten me I'd be rethinking if we were suitably matched. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Ahh I see you are in SA. May I recommend you contact Mark Singer: www.caninetraining.com.au If anyone in our state can help you, he can. Edited February 1, 2012 by cassie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogz4eva Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hi,sorry for your dramas but I have to say I think you have caused it.Dog fights are stressful moments for sure but its how you act that can affect the dogs.Punching and kicking a fully grown adult entire male Neo is not a smart thing to do considering you didnt raise it.You are lucky he didnt go you then and thereBreaking sticks work no matter what dog and is easir to break the hold and tow them away.He bit you becuase of your strange behaviour afterwards and he was still amped.I personally steer away from adult dogs but alos depends on the situation.Even though you have altered both dogs I wouldnt trust that to be the cure as the damage is already done and becuase of so many altercations it will happen again.I think it is best to rehome the labrador if you are not that attached to it.Neo's can be headstrong dogs and dominant/Behaviourists can give you good advice but at the end of the day they wont be there 24 7.Its easier and for piece of mind to move on with the one dog and if you get another get a female from a pup.Just my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldogz4eva Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Ahh I see you are in SA. May I recommend you contact Mark Singer: www.caninetraining.com.au If anyone in our state can help you, he can. Id second that.Mark is a good guy and has experence with a variety of dogs. Edited February 1, 2012 by bulldogz4eva Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Am I the only one stunned that someone sold the OP an entire male Neo when he had another entire male large breed dog? Some breeds can live with other entire males but not many and definitely not serious guard breeds. Unfortunately your poor Lab has gone from a friendly dog to a fighter and that will probably never be undone. I would not have desexed both as it puts them on an equal footing again. If you are determined to keep the Neo despite him biting you badly I think I would try to rehome the Lab for his own safety and give him a chance at a somewhat normal life but he will probably never be good with other dogs again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MsKatie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I third the suggestion for Mark and I would add to contact him ASAP - he has online booking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ahh I see you are in SA. May I recommend you contact Mark Singer: www.caninetraining.com.au If anyone in our state can help you, he can. Id second that.Mark is a good guy and has experence with a variety of dogs. Thanks for this advice you two. I'll contact Mark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergenesis Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Hi,sorry for your dramas but I have to say I think you have caused it.Dog fights are stressful moments for sure but its how you act that can affect the dogs.Punching and kicking a fully grown adult entire male Neo is not a smart thing to do considering you didnt raise it.You are lucky he didnt go you then and thereBreaking sticks work no matter what dog and is easir to break the hold and tow them away.He bit you becuase of your strange behaviour afterwards and he was still amped.I personally steer away from adult dogs but alos depends on the situation.Even though you have altered both dogs I wouldnt trust that to be the cure as the damage is already done and becuase of so many altercations it will happen again.I think it is best to rehome the labrador if you are not that attached to it.Neo's can be headstrong dogs and dominant/Behaviourists can give you good advice but at the end of the day they wont be there 24 7.Its easier and for piece of mind to move on with the one dog and if you get another get a female from a pup.Just my 2 cents. Thanks for that. In regards to hitting the Neo, I realize this was not a good idea. I was in a panic because my Labrador was in serious trouble. I have read since to pull them by their back legs or tail (though this risks being bit as well). I won't be putting them back together unless there has been extensive work done with both dogs, but yeah it may not be possible. Edited February 1, 2012 by cybergenesis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juice Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So you have had the lab 2 years and he is the first to go? be careful you are not being 'breed blind". you do need help, should have done it after the first fight. what was the neo breeder thinking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am astounded you would keep the mastiff over the lab. Poor lab, lived a peaceful life and now faces being rehomed over a dog that attacked you, adrenalin or not if that was a stranger it attacked your dog would be PTS. I agree with the professional, but sorry, I feel complelely sorry for you lab right about now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan Windebank Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Sorry I don't mean to sound inflammatory but how can you consider rehoming a dog you've had for two years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 one of the dogs should most likely be rehomed or it sounds like the lab could be killed being so much smaller. If the lab has not been damaged temperament wise by the attacks on it, it would be the easier dog to find a new home. Me, I'd get rid of the newcomer, but I would have done so after the first fight. Straight back to the breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florise Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 If I get rid of one, it will have to be the Labrador, as I said above, due to being easier to find a home for. A tough decision for you and one only YOU can make. I'd be pretty upset by people on an internet forum who do not know me or my dogs, telling me I am making the wrong decision in regard to something so personal and important. Best wishes with whatever way you go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Actually I can understand rehoming the Lab over the Neo for the reasons the OP has stated. It will be easier to find the Lab a new home provided he is not dog aggressive now. It would be VERY irresponsible for the OP to try to rehome the Neo in my opinion, unless the breeder was willing to take him back. So if the OP doesn't keep him then what, he gets PTS? If both dogs can be worked on and reconditioned then isn't it nicer to keep both alive at least? My two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Personally I'd be looking to rehome the Neo or even worst case pts as he has bit a human. I think it is horribly unfair to your friendly lab to have been put in that situation at all. I would 100% not let them back together if u prefer to keep the Neo by all means rehome the lab I agree he needs a normal fight free life Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Rebane same I would get rid of the newcomer and I would have done it a long time ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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