Oscar (AmBull) Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Not sure where I should put this so I figured general was the safe bet. So Oscar loves to mark, this is a learned behaviour from my dad’s undesexed male lab, Oscar is desexed but nevertheless loves to mark. I do limit it on walks, however he still does it anywhere he can get away with it, ie a tent, car tyre etc. So my main question/concern is has anyone had a dog that loves to mark, and if so what happens when you get a puppy? We do want to get another puppy eventually but I am concerned he will mark where the puppy has a mistake. Has this happened to anyone? I really do not want to have to train a puppy, as well as retrain him. Any experiences or hypothetical’s welcomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pretty Miss Emma Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I'm wondering if it is a learned behaviour from another dog or is it that he hasn't been trained that this isn't an appropriate behaviour or is it instinctive???? I don't have a male dog (and haven't had one) so don't really know. My female dog will mark over others scents, but she knows that this is appropriate on grass and not other places (as in she has been trained for this) and even then I still try to minimise the behaviour. I also don't really know a lot about marking, so it's an interesting question for me to ponder also! I would think that you should be able to train your current dog to do this behaviour appropriately (which will no doubt require you to be vigilant and prevent him doing it where it is unwanted). And I would also think that you could train a pup not to do this - which may be easier if you start from scratch as he hasn't learnt that he can do something different. But like I said I don't really know I'm just sort of trying to logically think it through! I would think that it would be similar to training other behaviours. I'm also interested to see what others have to say about this as I'm thinking my next dog will be male and definitely do not want him marking inappropriately!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redangel Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My friend has a small desexed boy who marks everytime he visits. I usually let him out back to "empty the tank" as it were. I have often thought of training him out of this using a belly band...not sure if this is not fair to him though. Interested to see responses to this one...great question OP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
**Super_Dogs** Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My boy is the same - he will mark everything. As long as your boy knows where he cannot mark you will be fine with a puppy. We have had 2 puppies with my boy and he has never done this. My boy stands next to the girls when they are going to the toilet in the yard waiting for them to mark where they have been. I have noticed he does not have much interest in this while the pup is young. Don't know if this is normally the case or just him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 I don't know if it is a learned behaviour or as stated an instinctual one, but it is very hard to change, I only let him pee once on a walk, and he does it in bushes. But it is extremely hard to catch him doing it, and when I do catch him, I make it clear that the behaviour is not wanted, but how do I stop him from marking? The worse things that come to mind with his marking are tents when camping, car tyres and the bin? He has never marked inside since being a puppy, and has been to others' houses, where dogs have been, and has not marked inside, but it is still a major concern when looking to get a new puppy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You might want to start working with your current dog now so that he has a good idea of where it is appropriate to mark and where isn't, as it is pretty common for dogs that like to mark to do so where other dogs have toileted. They can also mark the other dog's toys/bed/bowl, mark in places where they haven't previously (including inappropriate places like inside) in order to both reassure themselves in a time of change and to really make sure that the newcomer knows who's boss of the house, and maybe even mark the puppy! You may find that you will need to be vigilant with both dogs for some time. Also arm yourself with some Bio-Zet washing detergent, as it breaks down urine so he won't smell any puppy accidents and mark over them after you've cleaned. Incidentally, your boy's marking behaviour is probably more just his personality than anything he's learned from another dog. There was a thread recently about non-stereotypical weeing which had every variation from entire males who squatted to girls who cocked their leg or even did handstands to mark as high as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My eldest bitch is a BIG marker!! There is not one inch of park that does not belong to her Haven't had a problem with subsequent dogs, even my entire males mark less than her!! Abby is a girl that is quite happy to cock her leg to make sure she hits a pole. My current pup actually is being trained to be happy to go to the loo off the property and she has been out with Abby from very early on. I wouldn't be too worried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 How would you suggest I stop him from doing it? I find this the hardest thing I rarely catch him, and when I do I give him the usual ah ah, which he knows as no? Around the back yard he does not mark anything unusual or pee a lot, it is out the front, or in my dads/mums yards, parks, on walks etc. I am vigilant when we are out the front and I do not allow him to mark on walks. How else can I get the message through? I will not be getting another dog until I am confident in where he is at, however how long should one wait, he is coming up 3 in March and was aiming in another 2 years for another puppy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 My eldest bitch is a BIG marker!! There is not one inch of park that does not belong to her Haven't had a problem with subsequent dogs, even my entire males mark less than her!! Abby is a girl that is quite happy to cock her leg to make sure she hits a pole. My current pup actually is being trained to be happy to go to the loo off the property and she has been out with Abby from very early on. I wouldn't be too worried. Does she ever mark things that you would not like her to? Ie car tyres, bins? I don't know if I am just worrying to much or if it should be a real concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 My eldest bitch is a BIG marker!! There is not one inch of park that does not belong to her Haven't had a problem with subsequent dogs, even my entire males mark less than her!! Abby is a girl that is quite happy to cock her leg to make sure she hits a pole. My current pup actually is being trained to be happy to go to the loo off the property and she has been out with Abby from very early on. I wouldn't be too worried. Does she ever mark things that you would not like her to? Ie car tyres, bins? I don't know if I am just worrying to much or if it should be a real concern. I don't let her near car tyres. And I have a strict "only on grass rule" for all my dogs- so anything that they can't get to with one foot on a tuft of grass is safe!! My boys (although there have been a few accidents) will only toilet if they are standing on grass as well. The acidents have been an occasional marking of another dogs food bowl- stopped by removing the bowl straight after feeding and me standing there waiting for him to do it, and once or twice on a friends lounge that had been marked by a boy previously. I manage visiting peoples houses by getting the boys to wee on cue in their back yard before they are allowed to go off lead. One boy this is only one wee, the other boy I know has to wee three times before he is empty. Abby marks ALOT on walks if we are on a casual stroll, and I don't try and stop it anymore- nothing I did really made a significant difference. She doesn't mark when we are working- at obedience, flyball or agility, but she also doesn't sniff around. I don't allow her to sniff the ground at vets because I know she will mark if she does. Does your dog give you warning such as sniffing? I personally wouldn't be too worried about brining a pup into the picture- so long as you set out the criteria for it very well from the beginning. i.e. only go to the toilet on grass, giving it a cue. When you go out giving the pup 'toilet time' and 'walking time'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oscar (AmBull) Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I mean I plan to toilet train the puppy as I did him, which is basically going outside every hour, and after, food, naps, play etc then enormous praise when they go. This worked well with Oscar. He doesn't give any real warning, he is quite quick when he does go. We do go to obedience and he never wees when we are working, I do let him after training though. I have just found it an uphill battle really, it is not a big issue now, other than I wish he didn't do it. I take him to my mums, dads and nannas (where other dogs live) he does wee in the yard a lot but has never done it inside. Does not mark inside the vets office etc. He seems to have an endless wee supply, how do I determine when he is empty? He just goes and goes when allowed? ETA- I don't know how to instill the only on grass rule? He never goes on our pavers, but will cock his leg on the bushes etc. Edited January 30, 2012 by NewAmstaffOwner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumabaar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I mean I plan to toilet train the puppy as I did him, which is basically going outside every hour, and after, food, naps, play etc then enormous praise when they go. This worked well with Oscar. He doesn't give any real warning, he is quite quick when he does go. We do go to obedience and he never wees when we are working, I do let him after training though. I have just found it an uphill battle really, it is not a big issue now, other than I wish he didn't do it. I take him to my mums, dads and nannas (where other dogs live) he does wee in the yard a lot but has never done it inside. Does not mark inside the vets office etc. He seems to have an endless wee supply, how do I determine when he is empty? He just goes and goes when allowed? ETA- I don't know how to instill the only on grass rule? He never goes on our pavers, but will cock his leg on the bushes etc. I guess I had part of the yard with pavers and I was a hawk eye whenever they went out. I lived with my grandmother who made it quite clear that if they marked her stuff then they were not welcome. I also set them up to fail a bit when it came to marking so they went to mark on something inappropriate, I caught them and popped them on the grass and gave them their toilet cue until they went and they had a big reward. They were eventually 'caught' everywhere but grass and I had really clear criteria that I was sticking too, which meant they knew the rules of the game. Does he toilet on cue? That is how I got mine to understand the difference between toilet time and not toilet time.... I continue to give the toilet cue until there is literally nothing more than a dribble being left behind. I also visit lots and lots of trees when I go somewhere new so I force them to empty out. As I said one boy just goes once. The other is a minimum of three marks, but I just continue to walk around until I can see he is cocking his leg with nothing much coming out- the record was 25trees (not all of them were good enough to be marked though). Its really time consuming sometimes but it means he gets to be part of everything and trusted. I also regularly still take that boy out on toilet breaks to make sure he understands that I don't want him to mark in a new environment. Dogs don't generalise so me saying 'don't go in my house' does not mean that they understand 'don't go in this brand new house'. So I treat them like puppies at every new location. That is how I trained my boys- the know the rules. It sounds like you have not set up boundaries that Oscar understands. He might learn differently to my boffa's. He might need to stay on lead or be crated in new environments and need to be toileted on lead? Edited January 30, 2012 by Jumabaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) my boy loves to mark also, he has a ball when we are out and he also will mark on anything. at home however he is fully housetrained and will not pee in the house at all, we got a new pup a year ago and he never peed in the house on her mistakes unlike your well behaved boy mine will pee in other pples houses and on innappropriate things its an on going battle atm Edited January 30, 2012 by dandybrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 you should be restricting his access if he is going around marking stuff while out camping, I hope it's not other camper's stuff he is weeing on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiesha09 Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 I was just thinking about starting a thread on this topic this morning. I'm sick of walking along with my boy happily beside me to be suddenly jerked backwards/sideways to a tree, bush, post, well anything really so my boy can mark it. It is so frustrating!!! This has been an uphill battle for me too. I have tried just walking and only letting him pee when I give a command but he will still jerk me towards this. How do you actually train them not to? He even 'phantom' marks inside.... he knows he isn't allowed to pee but he'll go up to everything and cock his leg and do his little back leg shuffle afterwards he just doesn't pee. I'm not even sure how to stop this as I can't watch him 24 hours a day. He's 6 years old and this has been going on for a while now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandybrush Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 kiesha i have to say my boy still jerks me, however when he does i cue his "to bad" and on goes his halti. that stops him pulling me. however i do watch him during the walk and if i see him about to stop i will say "no pee" and he doesnt pee there, but i have to say it at every tree until i let him pee :laugh:, once he's peed once or twice i can generally stop him easier and he can go for longer with a no pee easily...hope that made sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nekhbet Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 They can also mark the other dog's toys/bed/bowl, mark in places where they haven't previously (including inappropriate places like inside) in order to both reassure themselves in a time of change and to really make sure that the newcomer knows who's boss of the house, and maybe even mark the puppy! You may find that you will need to be vigilant with both dogs for some time. Also arm yourself with some Bio-Zet washing detergent, as it breaks down urine so he won't smell any puppy accidents and mark over them after you've cleaned. A dog shouldn't be that insecure it has to piss on everything the new dog has brought in. That is a lack of structure and understanding between original dog and owner if it happens to this degree. I think you're just worrying too much about it. Oscar loves to mark because it's within his nature to do it. When they 'learn' it from other dogs, it's not a simply copy behavior, they learn to compete hence the marking begins. Keep Oscar and the pup in crates while inside and you can't supervise. If you see Oscar sniffing about tell him to go outside. Despite the amount of transient/babysat dogs that have come through my place, my house isn't covered in wee. We had a slight dominance issue when the Rottweiler was PTS and the Dogue decided to put one up on OH and mark in the hallway but we solved that quick smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 They can also mark the other dog's toys/bed/bowl, mark in places where they haven't previously (including inappropriate places like inside) in order to both reassure themselves in a time of change and to really make sure that the newcomer knows who's boss of the house, and maybe even mark the puppy! You may find that you will need to be vigilant with both dogs for some time. Also arm yourself with some Bio-Zet washing detergent, as it breaks down urine so he won't smell any puppy accidents and mark over them after you've cleaned. A dog shouldn't be that insecure it has to piss on everything the new dog has brought in. That is a lack of structure and understanding between original dog and owner if it happens to this degree. Without going into details, the dog concerned in this particular circumstance had good reason to feel insecure through no fault of his owner. It was just stuff, and we got through it. Nevertheless it was a bit trying for a little while until everyone adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 I don't let my boy "mark" when we are out. He is allowed one pee and that's it. He knows we are out for a walk and not on a "marking mission" so he has a decent wee when we are out and sometimes not even that, so like all good 'kids' he probably went before we left home. :laugh: I had a Rescue here that was an 8 year old entire and a marking machine. We had to put a lead on him and rush him out the crate and down the hall to the door quick march, hup, two, three, four as he would lift his leg at any chance! His first shot was my daughters wardrobe door as he was crated in her room. Eventually after he had settled in and with the aid of a belly band, and a few gutteral "Nuhah's" he learnt what's what and is now 100% house trained and living with my mother. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diesel's Mate Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 my 1Y.O. boy only started marking about 2 months ago....in the morning we have a "piss-fest" our older male (desexed) just does his morning wee, the pup entire) sticks his nose in his bum before he is finished...the older male walks off...the pup sniffs the wee his teeth chatter and he drools heaps and then wees on top. then the older male tries to finish his wee ese-where and the entire cyle happens 4-6 times each morning! I have no idea if this is normal (that's why i came to DOL - and found this!) The teeth chatter and drool is what I am confused about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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