Antibiotics And Bitches In Whelp

[Steve]

Actually although its a bit off topic I thought of you when I saw this one .I think you live in an area were it would be advised to use this stuff.

It also makes you wonder if this stuff is put on the skin and it gets in and causes a problem with sperm how it might affect men who play with and touch and handle the dog while it is on there.

Im lucky Ive never even seen a flea and no such thing as ticks here so we don't need to use these products but its still food for thought at least and makes you hesitate to expose breeding dogs to anything until you check it and consider if its your best option.

Have to say it ticks me off that its not a warning before you use it.

http://bullmarketfro...health-in-dogs/

This raises a whole series of questions for my and my current situation. No ticks here, but I have been using Revolution on my girl for topical flea (and heartworm) treatment because it is supposedly safe for breeding bitches. I have never used it when my bitch was either in season or after she had been mated. I have, though, used it just before she came in season, cos on each of her last 2 seasons she has surprised me and come in season a month earlier than expected - so the treatment has been on her just a few weeks before she came into season.

hmmm......

Ill tell this story again.

Years ago my vet advised me on a product to use for my dogs to prevent heartworm. Id never used heartworm meds before but it was and is pushed pretty much so that's what I did . Every bitch I bred for 2 years aborted about 6 weeks into her pregnancy .As you can imagine I was pretty upset and the vet was looking into what might be causing it - no questions like you are asking because mine had all carried pups to full term before and it was happening in all 4 of my lines. Just when I was about ready to chuck it in I had a net conversation with someone who had purchased two of my cats in the states and by sheer co incidence she said she was having the same problems in her dogs as I was having in mine. Hers were worse as she was breeding more So we started to look at what we had been doing in common. Only thing was the heartworm med .We both went nuts and researched the studies and the chemical not the stuff the drug companies put out. We came to the concision it had to be the heartworm med. We both stopped using it and neither of us has ever had a problem again .The same bitches went on to have normal healthy litters and none of their daughters, grandaughters, great grand daughters or great great grand daughters have ever shown a sign of a breeding problem.

Its food for thought alright I was almost convinced it was caused by eating possum poo but my mate in the states didn't have any possums. I used to have some good links on this stuff and how it affects fertility but it will take me a minute to find them again.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Steve

[Steve]

By the way when I worked out what I thought it was it was so obvious to me and I became pretty bloody mad at my vet.If I could find out this stuff surely she should have known it wasnt good for breeding dogs but when I spoke with her I really dont believe she had any idea .fact is vets cant research every drug they base their advice on what the drug companies give them - testing on animal products isnt as well managed as human stuff and they uisually dont test them on breeding anials , you also wont see much on long term issues because they only test a short time. So with something that goes in - runs around their body every month they test the immediate side effects and give super large does to see what the safety level is not ones that may become a problem over an extended period of time or if the dog is pregnant.

[piper]

Interesting link Steve. Makes you wonder about the increase in problems we seem to hear about and intervention that is needed.

I had my first litter last year - 9 pups, free welled, healthy, good weights. Never an issue with them. I don't use any monthly spot ons at all. I treat for an issue when we have an issue ad try and use as little as possible and nt something designed to work for a whole lot of things. The stud dog owner is the same. I have no reason for any of this other than using all those chemicals seemed excessive and I felt it can't be good for them. So maybe there was more to my successful litter than just good luck....

What really concerned me with your link was the mention of changes to DNA.

[Steve]

Yep but its pretty hard to cover it all especially when its stuff you expecta vet to know and inform you about - knowing you have breeding dogs.

There is always the sideways smack too.

Couple of months ago I was sitting on my front porch in the middle of 30 acres when my visitor said - whats that smell. It was the idiot next door spraying chemicals in a strong breeze which happened to dump the stuff all over us.

My first reaction is I have a pregnant dog you just put that crap all over - my friend and I had headaches for about a week afterwards . Geez I was mad. Anyway the bitch whelped O.K. Point is you cant control everything - but you do expect to get a little help.

[jr_inoz]

my girl had had the heart worm vaccination in the 12 months before the first litter she lost. She hasn't had that vaccination since (coming up for two years now since her last vaccination) after I had read some anecdotal evidence about heart worm vaccination causes issues in bitches (with resorption and abortion) in the US.

She has had the revolution treatment since though. Would be interesting to see if it was the heartworm medication. She hadn't had a litter previously though.

Makes you think. (And spend hours chasing your tail trying to find answers that may not be there). Good thing I quite like the chase even if I don't get the answers I need.

[jr_inoz]

Yep but its pretty hard to cover it all especially when its stuff you expecta vet to know and inform you about - knowing you have breeding dogs.

There is always the sideways smack too.

Couple of months ago I was sitting on my front porch in the middle of 30 acres when my visitor said - whats that smell. It was the idiot next door spraying chemicals in a strong breeze which happened to dump the stuff all over us.

My first reaction is I have a pregnant dog you just put that crap all over - my friend and I had headaches for about a week afterwards . Geez I was mad. Anyway the bitch whelped O.K. Point is you cant control everything - but you do expect to get a little help.

Yep - i was exposed to termite spray in a building I was working in where it was supposed to be safe about 25 years ago. That spray is since banned in Australia. ANother girl in that office and I have had issues since. I now have an intolerance to anything that contains sulphur - including preservatives in food and many antibiotics.

Can't do much about it - like you said, some things are beyond our control.

[piper]

Yep but its pretty hard to cover it all especially when its stuff you expecta vet to know and inform you about - knowing you have breeding dogs.

There is always the sideways smack too.

Couple of months ago I was sitting on my front porch in the middle of 30 acres when my visitor said - whats that smell. It was the idiot next door spraying chemicals in a strong breeze which happened to dump the stuff all over us.

My first reaction is I have a pregnant dog you just put that crap all over - my friend and I had headaches for about a week afterwards . Geez I was mad. Anyway the bitch whelped O.K. Point is you cant control everything - but you do expect to get a little help.

I remember talking to a breeder who said she went through several years of reabsorbed litters, singletons, still births, defects and then it suddenly improved. Then they worked out in the time frame that all of that had happened they had someone nearby that had used aerial spraying for their crops. Prior to that they did not have problems and everything improved again afterwards, just at the time they did not connect the dots as to why 1 pregnancy after another with multiple bitches from different lines went wrong.