Kavik Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Here is a video of Susan Garrett's Running Contacts with her young dog Swagger http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9BwIUwfjmEU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 On the topic of contacts in general - Rachel Sanders has a new DVD on training 2o2o contacts on Clean Run http://www.cleanrun....Product_ID=3083, just got a Clean Run update email this morning. Anyone feel free to watch it and tell me if it is good :laugh: Oh no, don't tell me that!! I haven't started much agility training with young Pippa yet and am a bit scared to start any sort of contact work until I have decided how I want to go about it. Would prefer a 2o2o but I don't really know how to teach it properly. Millie stops "somewhere" near the end of the contact but I haven't been successful yet in a proper solid 2o2o (might help if I actually trained more ) So I'd like to be armed with a bit more info before I ruin train another dog!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Susan answers : Did I make a difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursus Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Looking at a Silvia Trkman running contacts video - so fast no way would I be able to respond quick enough if it was not correct! This is hilarious! Amazing; the girl runs and the dog runs... I am obviously laughing at my own ignorance - I have no idea what running contacts is. Hope it's worth 5k though. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) Looking at a Silvia Trkman running contacts video - so fast no way would I be able to respond quick enough if it was not correct! This is hilarious! Amazing; the girl runs and the dog runs... I am obviously laughing at my own ignorance - I have no idea what running contacts is. Hope it's worth 5k though. ;) You notice that red section on the bottom of the dogwalk? The dog has to touch that or it is a fault and not a clear run. Teaching the dog to touch that while running at speed is not easy, for the dog the most obvious thing to do to get to the bottom quickly is to jump over that last bit at the bottom. You also want them to do this regardless of handler position - if you are behind them, in front of them, moving laterally away from them, at lateral distance from them, you slowing down, without them stopping or slowing down. That is not easy, dogs like to know where you are to know where to go next, if you are not running right beside them, many dogs (mine included) do not perform obstacles at optimum speed. In order to be able to reward correct reponses where the dog strides over the contact area rather than jumping over it, you have to obviously be able to see whether the dog touches the right spot and be able to reward or not reward the dog depending on what it does. In case you didn't notice, the dog is moving very fast, and it would be difficult to be able to process the information quickly and react appropriately and reward at the right time and right spot so that you are reinforcing the desired response and movement direction. ETA: Add to that different approaches and being able to direct them after the obstacle so that you can turn them away from an obstacle in their path that they are not supposed to take, difficult if they are running along it full speed and they see a jump or tunnel straight in front of them. Edited February 6, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 http://amysanimalcare.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/5000-and-you-get-rdw-in-three-weeks.html?spref=fb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caffy Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Agree with what CFS said, even the best dogs in Aust haven't started to approach what the overseas guys do. So much more to focus on than running contacts. I could count at least 4 young dogs from WA that have amazing true running contacts...they are awesome!! Judges need their running shoes on that's for sure ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agility Dogs Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Agree with what CFS said, even the best dogs in Aust haven't started to approach what the overseas guys do. So much more to focus on than running contacts. I could count at least 4 young dogs from WA that have amazing true running contacts...they are awesome!! Judges need their running shoes on that's for sure ;) I know there are some good young dogs over in WA, but I'm not convinced that any of our Aussie dogs will ever approach what is happening over seas - for the simple fact that we don't have full time dog trainers here. The top guys OS are all full time people who make their living out of the sport and that drives massive competition. We can get a lot better, but I don't think we'll ever reach that level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 On top of Agility Dogs point (which is valid and may end up being true) the system in the UK where you have to place to go up levels also makes it very competitive time wise. Here, since you can gain titles through qualifying and you don't have to place, there is not so much emphasis on time unless you are one of the more serious competitors aiming to place. And it is the desire for faster times which really drives new methods such as reliable running contacts. However it must be extremely frustrating to be a newbie hobby trainer in agility having to compete with professionals kinda glad in a way that there is a more level playing field here. Here is another Silvia Trkman clip showing turns on her running dogwalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smisch Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) I know of one girl here in aus who has managed a decent running contact.. yet to see it run decently in a trial yet as the dog is still young and unsure in a ring but its not too bad tbh I know of several people over in the usa who I would pay to go to rather then SGs whilst her contacts were acurate but in my eye they werent fast enough to be a running contact.. JMHO 5k geeze thats alot I know a number of my friends in the usa have signed onto do the ST online classses and I know for a fact they are not the kind of people who would pay 5 grand and I do know of one who has had a private with ST herself so shes not out of the question unlilke this course.. once again JMHO.. the USA is leaps and bounds ahead sometimes I think that'd it be awesome to go over there and trial for a year and just see what its all about lol!! dreaming big :) Gabriella Blackburn.. LOVE all her dogs and their work.. Quiz was only young here and a touch insane shes just come back after a long term injury so lets see what happens now shes a little more mature Daisy Peel and solar.. couldnt find anything recent but his contacts are also awesome..and hes a much bigger dog 26" jumper. Edited February 10, 2012 by smisch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Having watched all these running contact videos a few times :laugh: , my conclusion is that SG is most interested in responsiveness to directional signals with her running contacts - thoughtfulness - hence the exercises off the equipment which obviously have to do with turning. Some other methods make speed a priority. Silvia's BC and Quiz certainly look to be going VERY fast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That Quiz is a very fast dog! The way it got caught in the weave poles a couple of times made my stomach turn though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smisch Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 That Quiz is a very fast dog! The way it got caught in the weave poles a couple of times made my stomach turn though! There are a few moments like that but i think alot of it was also age as she was ypung then young, fast and stupid.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Very impressive some of those dogs and handlers. Just as a side Kavik, the dogs we saw getting a reward was a click and throw toy, just praise and throw toy. Then the dog just returned toy and then did another run. Didn't see any tugs used so maybe with your dog, you could use methods like that. Maybe your dog would enjoy that more then trying to make him want to tug. Personally if I didn't get to play a game of tug with my dogs and got results like that.......... well tugging can be lower down the reward scale that other ways. Edited February 10, 2012 by dasha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 10, 2012 Share Posted February 10, 2012 Very impressive some of those dogs and handlers. Just as a side Kavik, the dogs we saw getting a reward was a click and throw toy, just praise and throw toy. Then the dog just returned toy and then did another run. Didn't see any tugs used so maybe with your dog, you could use methods like that. Maybe your dog would enjoy that more then trying to make him want to tug. Personally if I didn't get to play a game of tug with my dogs and got results like that.......... well tugging can be lower down the reward scale that other ways. Yes if I could get results like that (regardless of reward I was using) I would be very happy Up until around October last year I had given up on getting Kaos to tug, was quite happy to stay with thrown toy and food. It is mostly because I have had a few issues with Kaos running out of the ring and a couple of other focus issues and several people suggested getting him to tug would help with engagement and relationship building that I got serious about getting him to tug more reliably. It is actually going really well and I have actually gotten quite a lot further than I thought I would in this time frame - getting him to tug happily around his favourite toy, one game of combining food and tug, tugging outside the front gate. Most likely I will stay with his favourite thrown toy for an agility reward, unless we really exceed my expectations and I am able to get him tugging happily in other locations. As I really would like to be able to use tugging as a reward with future dogs, I may as well practice on the dog I have now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiechick Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Very impressive some of those dogs and handlers. Just as a side Kavik, the dogs we saw getting a reward was a click and throw toy, just praise and throw toy. Then the dog just returned toy and then did another run. Didn't see any tugs used so maybe with your dog, you could use methods like that. Maybe your dog would enjoy that more then trying to make him want to tug. Personally if I didn't get to play a game of tug with my dogs and got results like that.......... well tugging can be lower down the reward scale that other ways. In agility training the thrown toy is generally used to reward (and create) very specific behaviours, such as head lowered driving down reward line for 2X2's. You can bet your $5000 that every dog you watched has a solid tug that is used before dog trains to get them aroused and to reward most other exercises. No way those dogs got to be how they are with a thrown toy alone. I agree that for some of us who haven't got a dog with a passion for tug (me too with one of my dogs) you have to be creative and use other reinforcements while you work on tugging away from the context of agility, (and don't obsess over it) but if you asked any serious agility competitor to rank their 'holy grail/wishlist' of reinforcements they had at their disposal, I doubt you would find many (if any) who wouldn't list tugging at the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piper Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Tug has recently moved higher up my list that;s for sure. Jazz has suddenly clicked with tugging at agility and her performance is vastly different. She is still not a reliable tugger in that if I have just rewarded with food I can't get her to tug but I would say I am now up to 75% of the time that she will happily tug at training. In the last 2 weeks I have used tug almost exclusively and the difference in her has to be seen to be believed. I did not think it would make that much difference given it is not her first choice of reward but it really does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 OK so it sounds like the foundation for her running contacts is going to be included in the online contact course that she is starting soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Yes - around about the same time as the derret's foundation course :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyStar Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 OK so it sounds like the foundation for her running contacts is going to be included in the online contact course that she is starting soon Do you have a link to the details, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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