kelpiekaye Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Hi, The mother of my kelpie has had epilepsy since she was 3 years old. The breeder who I have a very good relationship with let me know that the dog she kept from the litter has also started to have fits. He is just about three years old now. How worried shoud I be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirty Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't know but I hope the bitch and the pup she kept will not be bred from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) No use worrying until and IF your dog displays symptoms. In some breeds there is a strong family history of epilepsy. As a result considered inherited. Ask her breeder, if the dam or sire of her bitch was affected? Obviously she and closely related siblings should not be bred. PS Unfortunately there is no DNA test currently available for canine epilepsy. Edited January 25, 2012 by Lablover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe001 Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 A friend use to breed kelpies and the stud dog started having fits and was eventually PTS. From memory I think they bred a couple of litters before the symptons showed. (This was over 20 years ago - so I guess medicine etc has advanced as well). Every pup that they either kept (2) or kept in touch with (most of other pups) eventually was PTS from the condition. Soemtimes under a year and sometimes after a couple of years. BUT another friend had a poodle that was diagonised with epilepsy under a year old and they chose to medicate him. He was given a tablet morning and night at a set time wiithout failure - this meant they never went on holidays or out to dinner etc as they would miss the correct time and they didn't want to impose on anyone else - their dog came first. Last I saw him he was nearing 13yo and hadn't had a bad day for over 10 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Epilespy is definitely known to occur and be hereditary in Kelpies but unfortunately the mode of inheritence is not known. It would be highly unlikely for all puppies from an epileptic parent to also have epilepsy so if your dog does not develop it within a year or so the odds are pretty good that he won't be affected. Worrying won't help so just take each day as it comes and hope you never have to face the problem. Good on the breeder for keeping you informed and being honest. About the only way to reduce the incidence is to not breed affected dogs and avoid breeding closely related dogs to others that are also related to an affected animal. This takes a lot of co-operation and honesty among breeders to achieve. Any sort of witch hunt just makes everyone bury the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetson Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I think it depends on the serverity of the epilepsy. My first poodle had epilepsy however it wasn't very severe and he only fitted a few times a year. He lived until he was 16. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Don't know but I hope the bitch and the pup she kept will not be bred from. They had both been desexed before the boy had his first fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Epilespy is definitely known to occur and be hereditary in Kelpies but unfortunately the mode of inheritence is not known. It would be highly unlikely for all puppies from an epileptic parent to also have epilepsy so if your dog does not develop it within a year or so the odds are pretty good that he won't be affected. Worrying won't help so just take each day as it comes and hope you never have to face the problem. Good on the breeder for keeping you informed and being honest. About the only way to reduce the incidence is to not breed affected dogs and avoid breeding closely related dogs to others that are also related to an affected animal. This takes a lot of co-operation and honesty among breeders to achieve. Any sort of witch hunt just makes everyone bury the problem.(/quote] My girl is a littermate to my breeders boy. Both of my breeders dogs have been desexed a while ago now so no further breeding from them. My girl is spayed. I also wondered if it could be more enviromental eg lead, chemicals etc as I would of thought my breeder would have to be very unlucky to have mother and now son. According to the breeder of her bitch there is no history of epilepsy in the line. Edited January 25, 2012 by kelpiekaye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Worrying is useless. You need to be prepared to deal with it if and when it comes. 'Epilepsy' is a bit like 'cancer' in that it encompasses a wide range of conditions, some of them severe, some of them not. YOu should be aware that if you bring a dog in with 'fits' or 'seizures' of any sort, some vets will run a large number of expensive tests, often finding nothing conclusive. Other vets will listen to your description of the event and, if the situation does not seem to be life threatening, suggest that you wait to see if it is recurrent, and if so, how frequent it is. It may help you to get a useful, not-too-expensive diagnosis to have a video camera of some sort on hand and be prepared to record the next episode if and when it should occur. One of my dogs had exactly one seizure in her life, quite a severe grand mal, and never had another. I'm grateful that I didn't spend thousands of dollars on diagnosis of what turned out to be a one-off event. The fall back treatment for epilepsy, phenobarbitol, is often effective, just means two pills a day, and is very cheap. You could buy a lifetime of tablets for the cost of one MRI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 25, 2012 Author Share Posted January 25, 2012 Thanks for replies, I will not worry too much. Ruby is with me most of the time as her and I have a 1,000+ bovines to worry about. I also found a good site online with a lot of good imformation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dancinbcs Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My girl is a littermate to my breeders boy. Both of my breeders dogs have been desexed a while ago now so no further breeding from them. My girl is spayed. I also wondered if it could be more enviromental eg lead, chemicals etc as I would of thought my breeder would have to be very unlucky to have mother and now son. According to the breeder of her bitch there is no history of epilepsy in the line. Epilepsy can be caused by lots of things but there is often a hereditary component especially if you get it in subsequent generations. Unfortunately many breeders hush up problems and future generations of breeders don't know there was ever a problem. I remember a concerned Kelpie breeder telling me about a prominent stud dog around 1990 that had epilepsy and was producing it in his offspring but the owners hushed it up and continued to use him. Now 20+ years on a lot of breeders would not have a clue there was a problem there behind their lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog_Horse_Girl Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 My little rescue, Mini Foxy x, has seizures. She is on pheno twice daily and as long as she gets her medication, she appears seizure-free. I say appears to be because I'm not with her 24/7. She's well within herself and as long as the seizures are controlled, she's at low risk of further complications. She also has a heart murmur which has progressed in a year from a Grade 1 to a Grade 2 and she will need medication for this eventually. As long as I monitor her and keep her activity levels moderate, and remind her vet that she has the murmur, it's manageable into the foreseeable future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Sandgrubber - I disagree with the tests being expensive and or unnecessary. The only way to actually diagnose epilepsy is to rule out all other causes of the seizures. Any Vet with even the most minimal of knowledge would not start ordering expensive tests such as MRIs after only one or 2 seizures. However, they would be bordering on negligence if they did not at least conduct some more basic tests that would rule out some ther common causes of seizures. Not all seizure activity is due to epilepsy and so medicating a dog with pheno when it is suffering from some kind of disease, injury or toxin reaction would be stupid. The tests conducted would rule out some of these conditions first. Epilepsy is a condition that can be managed with medication with varying degrees of success. My boy Monte is still having seizures and always has despite being medicated. He will turn 10 in April and was diagnosed at 18mths. He is on several drugs. He is not very well at the moment and I fear he may be nearing his time. Until now though he has lived a happy and fulfilled life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rysup Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Idiopathic Epilepsy can only be diagnosed by autopsy. All a vet can do is rule out every other possible cause of seizures. To me this sounds like a clear case of idiopathic epilepsy and testing is probably irrelevant, and not likely to reveal anything at all wrong. All you can do it hope that the gene has missed your girl, and if not, hope that medication works. Idiopathic Epilespy occurs in Keeshonds, but it is very late onset (generally old age) so that dogs are passed their breeding age before displaying symptoms. We are hoping to be able to get a DNA test soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy's mum Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 http://www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com/ Great website. Some dog's live unmedicated for many years with epilepsy. Some need medication. No need to worry just yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornell Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 For anyone who has a dog who suffers from seizures I suggest that you join this list. http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/epil-k9.html They are a wonderful group of inspirational people who bend over backwards to love and support their dogs and each other. I have learned so much from them in a very short time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiekaye Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 For anyone who has a dog who suffers from seizures I suggest that you join this list. http://apple.ease.lsoft.com/archives/epil-k9.html They are a wonderful group of inspirational people who bend over backwards to love and support their dogs and each other. I have learned so much from them in a very short time. Thats the site I found and have let my breeder know. Hopefuly my girl wont get it. She has just amazed me again with her intuition and brains while moving some cows without any commands from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cornell Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Ah so you are already on the right track :) It is great that you are aware and I agree that you should not worry unless you see signs - easy for me to say:P If you are still concerned there are some healthy choices that you can make eg restricting the chemicals you have in your home, look out for mould, do not feed pork or treats with chemicals in them and switch to a low grain diet. What a clever and pretty girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandgrubber Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Sandgrubber - I disagree with the tests being expensive and or unnecessary. The only way to actually diagnose epilepsy is to rule out all other causes of the seizures. Any Vet with even the most minimal of knowledge would not start ordering expensive tests such as MRIs after only one or 2 seizures. However, they would be bordering on negligence if they did not at least conduct some more basic tests that would rule out some ther common causes of seizures. Not all seizure activity is due to epilepsy and so medicating a dog with pheno when it is suffering from some kind of disease, injury or toxin reaction would be stupid. The tests conducted would rule out some of these conditions first. Epilepsy is a condition that can be managed with medication with varying degrees of success. My boy Monte is still having seizures and always has despite being medicated. He will turn 10 in April and was diagnosed at 18mths. He is on several drugs. He is not very well at the moment and I fear he may be nearing his time. Until now though he has lived a happy and fulfilled life. I didn't express myself well. What I should have said is if you're worried about possible hereditary epilepsy, find an experienced vet and set up a plan of action. It's likely to help the vet if you have a video of the seizure, or at least, time the event. If the mum had epilepsy and the pup has seizures similar to the mum's . . . and there is no reason to think poisoning, nutritional problem, or brain tumor . . . it's very likely an experienced vet will say, 'watch it for awhile. Before we get into testing, let's find out if the seizures will repeat, and if so, how severe they are and how frequently they occur'. I grew up in a medical family, hearing scuttlebutt about how certain doctors manage to increase their income by ordering unnecessary tests. We used to get a drug-company financed journal called 'Medical Economics' which Dad threw out and us kids were free to read. It was big on pushing more tests and more pills. Dad often complained about doctors who 'heard hoof-beats and thought zebra." Years on DOL convinces me that such practices are not unknown in the veterinary world. Ideopathic epilepsy is diagnosed by ruling out all possible causes. That's an open invitation to do unnecessary tests. An experienced vet can tell a lot about fits/seizures by seeing the event and getting a good background history. Eg, I almost lost my old girl to seizures that followed application of a spot on flea/tick treatment. Murphy's Law . . . it happened about a half an hour before the clinic's closing hour on Friday and they aren't open weekends. The vet (on phone consult) said it didn't sound like epilepsy due to the nature of the seizure and started asking me about any possible source of poisoning. We went over the flea treatment label. He said 'run a hose over her and soap her down, then rinse well'. She had been seizing for 45 minutes and stopped immediately after a thorough wash. She might well have died without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
~Anne~ Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks for clarifying. Your post above is spot on in all respects imo. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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