Sale Contracts

[Jetshroom]

There's been some discussion about this on another thread and it's something I've noticed a bit in my research.

A lot of breeders of purebreads have some sort of contract of sale where you can only show the dog under the breeder's name, you can't breed the dog unless through them, they get the rights to the litter etc.

Now I've noticed this in breeds where there's very few breeders, they all seem to have dogs that are related. For example, among 8 breeders, 7 use the same stud dog from the 8th breeder.

But if all of these conditions of sale exist, how does one start up as a breeder?

It seems to me that these conditions are fairly limiting in terms of growing the breed.

I'm not a breeder, just curious.

[Esky the husky]

Well if you had a rare breed wouldn't you want to protect it from any person who just wanted to breed.

I think it's fair enough, especially with all the money and time that goes into importing new lines, etc.

I'd want to have a good relationship with my brood bitches breeder anyway. doG knows I'm going to be needing their help :)

[rusty&biscuit]

Agree with EtH...schipperkes aren't yet a well established breed in Australia, but when I start breeding, I'd be pretty strict to where my brood bitches go...I would die if I saw a heap of badly bred little schips being bred willy nilly with no great knowledge Plus when buying, the contracts give me more confidence in that these people will be by my side in further helping and mentoring me on the breed for years to come...I have been blessed with 2 fabulous breeders who I couldn't have gone without!

[SwaY]

But if all of these conditions of sale exist, how does one start up as a breeder?

It seems to me that these conditions are fairly limiting in terms of growing the breed.

I'm not a breeder, just curious.

Many will start with a co-owned dog and learn tricks of the trade and then after putting in the hard yards will get a dog outright to breed from.

[Shaar]

Many will start with a co-owned dog and learn tricks of the trade and then after putting in the hard yards will get a dog outright to breed from.

This is exactly what I have done, my boy is co-owned with his breeder and I have no problems with it at all. A lot of people would want to get their hands on his breeding and to start with his breeder didn't know me from a bar of soap, I was just a girl who called asking about a puppy. If he were sold outright I could have studded him out to every dog in the country... I wouldn't of course, but his breeder didn't know that.

Now that we have built up more of a trust things are more lenient.

[Leema]

For people wanting a border terrier from me, I have a lot of conditions - until the dog is titled. Once the dog gains its championship title, it becomes fully their dog. To me, if they were committed enough to get those 100 points, they 'deserve' the dog to be fully theirs. Of course, this hasn't happened yet - but I have sent the contract to interested parties before.

I'd be very willing to help anyone new start up, but getting a puppy I sold them to championship status is a way for them to prove themselves to me.

Other people have different processes, and that's fine too.

[espinay2]

It is a bit like buying a property in an estate that has covenants. The breed is the estate and the covenants are the rules the breeder needs to abide by to live there. Of course if you don't like the covenants you can always buy property elsewhere, but if that is where you want to live, you go in knowing the conditions that apply ;) .

In a breed with a small genetic pool in particular it can be important for breeders to be careful about what goes where and who breeds with what. Sure I do think sometimes things can be more open (and politics can unfortunately get in the way for some) but on the whole it can be important protection for a breed. I will give an example of two quite similar breeds - the Pyrenean Mountain Dog and the Maremma. Pyr breeders have over the years managed to keep a reasonably tight control on who breeds what, with a number of small exceptions. You rarely see a Pyr in rescue (though they do occur from time to time) and you don't often see a cross bred Pyr (and when you do they can usually be traced back to those small exceptions I mentioned. Breed numbers have remained static but the genepool has remained active with plenty of dogs being imported etc. Breeders don't actually necessarily want larger numbers, particularly as it can be a breed that is hard to place in the right homes. On the other hand the Maremma has on the whole been less controlled. There are a lot of backyard bred Maremma and quite a lot have over the years turned up in rescue. It has created a lot of work for a lot of people mopping up messes - rescue, responsible breeders, trainers, behaviourists, vets etc. The number of responsible registered breeders of Maremma who contribute to the future of the breed (and do a great job) is still not huge, but the number of Maremma bred in total by all breeders is a lot more. 'Growth' is not always progress.

The thing is though - if you go in willing to work with a breeder and recognise that maybe they have a lot to offer then these types of 'rules' can be liberating rather than restricting. They offer an opportunity to learn and to grow. The breeder is generally not only offering the product of their hard work, but a chance to be in on the ground level to continue with the creation and a chance to gain some of the knowledge they themselves have gained over the years - probably starting off in a similar way 'apprenticed' to another more experienced breeder. IMO these days people are very much in the 'mine mine mine' frame of mind and forget all about sharing. Being a breeder is about sharing what people in the past have done and building on that. Expecting to just take and give nothing back (except cold hard cash) IMO devalues all that work. And expecting without any prior experience to 'know best' also too can be seen as somewhat egotistical and not really in the interests of the breed.

JMHO and FWIW