megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Fergus has done agility for about 2 years now. He is a fit, active, intelligent little dog. He has always looooooved agility and loved working for me. He has decent drive from an early age, knew to drive ahead without me running next to him (eg I can set up jumps and he can go ahead without me having to run all of them). Something has changed though, and he seems to have lost his love of it and I'm puzzled as to what to do next. I have taken him to the vet for a full check up and everything is normal (altough I'm sure the vet thinks I'm nuts: he's eating well, stools are normal, he's playing normally). Firstly a bit of background on how I train: I use positive methods only, we play lots of tug and games. He loves the tug and has a great prey drive. I'm happy to squeal and celebrate with my dog (Erny can attest to this!). I have set up some equipment in the last 2 weeks and do 2 mins a day max with him (so I don't think I'm over training him). We have trained at 3 different places, but not at the same time. The pattern seems to be that, when we start at a new place, he works really hard for 6 months then he just seems over it? Before the Christmas break, at Action Dogs he would just go off for a sniff when doing a jump sequence (my handling isn't great but I know that we were doing stuff that he knows how to do, so I don't think it was "calming signal" sniffing). If he did something it was a bit like he was going through the motions. I can get out the tug, try to entice him, play a game, even offer up food and he just sniffs the ground (engagement avoidance). He doesn't have a big attention span so I try to keep things snappy and keep him engaged. He used to get really despondant and shut off if he got something wrong (sigh, some instructor told me to slump my sholders and act dissapointed in him if he did something wrong - unfortunately I thought she was the expert so I listened to her which made this 100x worse. I haven't done this for a good 18 months though and now I do a "woopsie, let's try again!" in a happy, "this is just a game" voice). So....what should I do next? I do agility because my dogs love it and I love doing thing with them. I don't want it to be a form of torture. I was thinking of giving him a break for a few months with no training at all (doing something else instead, maybe flyball but then it might be too much like agility with all the jumps). I also thought of Ruff Love, but there is no way on earth that I'm locking my dog in a crate for 13 hours a day when I'm at work. ETA: Feeling guilty about taking some a promising little boy and "ruining" him doesn't make me feel great either Edited January 31, 2012 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Megan I'm sure you haven't ruined him - don't think like that! If it was me I'd take a break for a few weeks at least - no agility at all - I think that daily training, even if it was for 2 minutes might be a bit much for one of my dogs. Did you have a break over Christmas? But I'm not really a good person to offer advice because I seem to be in an endless circle of taking breaks! New tactic coming soon! Hope you can get his Mojo back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 yes. The daily training has only been for the last week and a half. Before that there was never any agility training at home at all (I had no yard) and only training once to twice a week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canine fun sports Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 (edited) Fergus has done agility for about 2 years now. He is a fit, active, intelligent little dog. He has always looooooved agility and loved working for me. He has decent drive from an early age, knew to drive ahead without me running next to him (eg I can set up jumps and he can go ahead without me having to run all of them). Something has changed though, and he seems to have lost his love of it and I'm puzzled as to what to do next. I have taken him to the vet for a full check up and everything is normal (altough I'm sure the vet thinks I'm nuts: he's eating well, stools are normal, he's playing normally). Hi Megan, There could be 100 different reasons fo Fergus's loss of interest, and probably as many different suggestions. Before I give any advice, I would like to know a few more things. How old is Feargus? What breed(s) is Feargus? What age did you start training Feargus? What does he normally work for - a particular type of toy, food, delivered from the hand or thrown? What games does he play? Did you take him to a vet with experience with agility dogs? Sometimes there is a little bit of low grade pain that is difficult to diagnose without a lot of pulling, pushing and prodding. This might not be done for an examination for a standard pet dog. Was his thyroid function tested? I hope I will be able to give a few suggestions, but some of this information might make it easier to give advice. EDITED WITH AN EXTRA QUESTION: What level is he training at - has he started competing? Cheers, Edited January 23, 2012 by canine fun sports Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 One of the times I find I have problems is when I trial frequently with trials close together, and don't do much training. So this year I plan to do less trials, and when at training keep it really short and work on speed, enthusiasm and focus. Also when I find I start taking things too seriously. So I have backed off more serious stuff, do really short sessions, lots of relationship building exercises, have particularly liked the Recallers ones for this too. The only agility related things I am practicing at home at the moment are one jump exercises and contact position on a travel plank. Everything else is relationship building. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi Megan, There could be 100 different reasons fo Fergus's loss of interest, and probably as many different suggestions. Before I give any advice, I would like to know a few more things. How old is Feargus? 4 at the end of JanuaryWhat breed(s) is Feargus? mini poodle x mini schnauzerWhat age did you start training Feargus? 2.5 yearsWhat does he normally work for - a particular type of toy, food, delivered from the hand or thrown? tugs, balls, food - loves them all. I tend to use tugs to get him into drive, he loves food as a reward. I use food that he looooovesWhat games does he play? Did you take him to a vet with experience with agility dogs? Sometimes there is a little bit of low grade pain that is difficult to diagnose without a lot of pulling, pushing and prodding. This might not be done for an examination for a standard pet dog. Was his thyroid function tested? Good point. Does anyone recommend someone in SE suburbs of Melbourne? My gut instinct is that he is avoiding doing certain things by the sniffing etc, so I have worried about pain, hence the vet visit. He did have a bad case of tonsilitis a month ago, but wasn't been 100% for a good few months at least.I hope I will be able to give a few suggestions, but some of this information might make it easier to give advice. EDITED WITH AN EXTRA QUESTION: What level is he training at - has he started competing? Not competing yet. Novice but he has done intermediate runs in the past at training and loved it. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 One of the times I find I have problems is when I trial frequently with trials close together, and don't do much training. So this year I plan to do less trials, and when at training keep it really short and work on speed, enthusiasm and focus. Also when I find I start taking things too seriously. So I have backed off more serious stuff, do really short sessions, lots of relationship building exercises, have particularly liked the Recallers ones for this too. The only agility related things I am practicing at home at the moment are one jump exercises and contact position on a travel plank. Everything else is relationship building. Thanks. This is what I thought I was doing. When I say we have a 2 min training session, only about 30 seconds of that is actually doing agility stuff. We spend most of the time tugging, playing around on the ground etc.I have always focused on having fun, playing etc. However, sometimes he avoids playing all together, which is very unlike him (he has always been very focused on me). The more I think about it the more I'm convinced that he has some low grade pain and he is avoiding doing certain things (esp jumps). He isn't being naughty and I'm 90% sure he knows what he's meant to do he's just avoiding it. Yesterday after some tugging I did a little lead out and said "go" he just sat there. I said it again, and he just looked away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pie Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 If he's avoiding playing with you and he was fine doing that in the past then yep I would get him checked for pain. Hope you can find some answers Megan I know it's frustrating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would definitely consider taking him to a good massage therapist and/ or chiro before anything else. Your last post sounds very unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would definitely consider taking him to a good massage therapist and/ or chiro before anything else. Your last post sounds very unusual. Can you recommend anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would definitely consider taking him to a good massage therapist and/ or chiro before anything else. Your last post sounds very unusual. Can you recommend anyone? Megan - talk to Deb (Bowen). She only treats clients' dogs and has been fabulous with Ziggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canine fun sports Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi Megan, There could be 100 different reasons fo Fergus's loss of interest, and probably as many different suggestions. Before I give any advice, I would like to know a few more things. How old is Feargus? 4 at the end of JanuaryWhat breed(s) is Feargus? mini poodle x mini schnauzerWhat age did you start training Feargus? 2.5 yearsWhat does he normally work for - a particular type of toy, food, delivered from the hand or thrown? tugs, balls, food - loves them all. I tend to use tugs to get him into drive, he loves food as a reward. I use food that he looooovesWhat games does he play? Did you take him to a vet with experience with agility dogs? Sometimes there is a little bit of low grade pain that is difficult to diagnose without a lot of pulling, pushing and prodding. This might not be done for an examination for a standard pet dog. Was his thyroid function tested? Good point. Does anyone recommend someone in SE suburbs of Melbourne? My gut instinct is that he is avoiding doing certain things by the sniffing etc, so I have worried about pain, hence the vet visit. He did have a bad case of tonsilitis a month ago, but wasn't been 100% for a good few months at least.I hope I will be able to give a few suggestions, but some of this information might make it easier to give advice. EDITED WITH AN EXTRA QUESTION: What level is he training at - has he started competing? Not competing yet. Novice but he has done intermediate runs in the past at training and loved it. Cheers, Thanks for the extra information. First I will pu on my vet's hat and advice a full checkout by a vet who has some experience with performance dogs. This might be a vet that does agility, has several agility patients, or even a greyhound vet with a good reputation. I would recommend a good vet first to be sure about what the problem is, then if appropriate, a good massage therapist or similar as part of the treatment. BUT PROPER DIAGNOSIS FIRST! Assuming that we have eliminated the possibility of pain as the reason for Feargus's slow down, I would consider the following things in my training: 1. Work on speed games away from the agility field. Games of chasings where I have something the dog wants and he has to chase me to get it. This helps keep you fit too. Even when you are rewarding your dog you can move your hand or spin away from the dog to increase his drive to chase. 2. I do my versions of the two food throw game which is basically the multi food throw game. I get a hand touch and throw the food as a reward. They have to chase the food. Before they finish that food I am encouraging antoher hand touch which I reward by throwing out the food again. Sometimes I will reward the nose touch at the hand. Sometimes I run away from the dog as he tries to catch up to touch my hand. 3. I introduce obstacles to the multi food throw game where sometimes I throw the food out over a jump, or recall the dog over a jump to get the hand touch. When the dog is doing this well, I throw in the occasional nose touch, send to obstacle (intead of throwing food) then throw food after the obstacle is complete. Let me know if this does not make sense to you. I will try to explain it more precisely. When I have the dog enjoying this game, including all the obstaces, I will do some "speed circuits" which are just basically a circuit of easy obstacles (no contacts or weaves)where there is no chance of handling errors or dog errors. Big rewards, and lots of chasing toys or treats as a reward. I also set up some racing games, but this would probably need a club to co-operate. Set up two identical simple up and back courses (usually with a tunnel at the end to turn them around. parallel to each other and have some racing games. Dogs like to race each other. My last suggestion is to borrow some-one else's dog to train for a while at the start of the session. See if a little jealousy does not create a little more enthusiasm. BUT MAKE SURE HE IS NOT IN ANY PAIN FIRST Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 What TSD said- Deb does Dexter too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 I would definitely consider taking him to a good massage therapist and/ or chiro before anything else. Your last post sounds very unusual. Can you recommend anyone? Megan - talk to Deb (Bowen). She only treats clients' dogs and has been fabulous with Ziggy. Doh! I should have thought of that. I'm seeing her again on Thursday so I'll ask if I can bring Fergs too. I'll still pursue the vet angle in case it is the tummy or something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmolo Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Didn't know you saw her too Megan! I have been seeing her regularly for 6 years :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks everyone - cfs - your post all makes sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 Didn't know you saw her too Megan! I have been seeing her regularly for 6 years :) The dog world is very small :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Didn't know you saw her too Megan! I have been seeing her regularly for 6 years :) I suggested she did :D As you did to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Thanks CFS That is useful information for all of us who have dogs who sometimes lose focus and enthusiasm. Speed circuits are fun! I now also have a whole bunch of new chase games to work on too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted January 23, 2012 Author Share Posted January 23, 2012 A little update: I've got some recommendations for a vet and I'm seeing Deb on Thursday. I took him to the local park last night once it had cooled down (9pm) and I used the chuckit to fling his ball. He ran like a demon. We played a bit and I occasionally threw in an obedience command (eg sit stay, drop stay heel) and then threw the ball/gave him a treat/played a game as a reward and he was on FIRE. He was so engaged and responsive, which leads me to think it is definitely related to agility, and jumps in particular (loves the contacts with a passion. Occasionally throws in an extra dog walk for good measure). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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