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I can't see how colour could affect temperament? It doesn't seem logical..... Does anyone have evidence or research to show there is something to this?

german shep fan, I think you're talking about Cocker Rage, a so called "syndrome" that affects golden Cockers. As far as I know there is no basis of truth to this, happy to be corrected though byu someone who knows more!

Yeah that's prob it, i have a friend with a cocker and she said she researched abt it before she got one.

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For some other breeds colour does seem to influence temperament (eg bloack pugs, black mini schnauzers)?

I was told dark red (sorry dont know what the offical colour is called) cockers can have a snappy temperament too? idk how true that is, just something i was told by reputable trainer. Everyone has their own opinions i guess.

There was line line of red (not all) some years back that threw dogs of very questionable temperament, that became dangerous and were PTS and so the colour got some real bad press for a while.

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DID ANYONE SEE THE TO ME!!! Mentioned in that sentence I never said it was true but from discussions round the ring and with a few other people and meeting other over a number of years that was my own personsl conclusion, my aunt had bred and been involved wirg labs for a number of years and i had never seen the behaviours associated with the yellows but as I said it was TO ME.. And before anyone asks yes she was a registered breeder only ever had 2 litters as she didn't end up getting a bitch from either to continue her line by which time she decided there were enough people to breed labs so she stopped..

Like I said jmho about what I think.

eek1.gif smisch, it's ok I wasn't having a go laugh.gif I would have said the exact same thing to anyone who said that in person, then had a giggle after it with them ;)

To me there is a genetic marker with this colour they tend to be more so crazy then your average lab.. As discussed there is a reason why guide dogs don't have them in the mix.. I loved the boy I was showing but never again would I go chocolate..

Sorry smisch, but that's bollocks!!!!!!!

I've had yellow and now chocolate; no behaviour difference. The chocs at obedience are no different to the yellows or blacks. In fact in regards to excellent behaviour there's a chocolate female at obedience that is a stand-out.

I've heard this rumour before and i've never found any factual evidence to support the claim; there are chocolates used in a number of guide dogs associations across the world.

I had to put an obedience class through their graduation exam and no it wasn't bias, but I put through in first place a young chocolate Lab bitch. She wasn't crazy at all, quite calm actually, and did well for her owner.

There is also a chocolate guide dog I regularly see at my train station stop :)

Edited by RubyStar
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For some other breeds colour does seem to influence temperament (eg bloack pugs, black mini schnauzers)?

I was told dark red (sorry dont know what the offical colour is called) cockers can have a snappy temperament too? idk how true that is, just something i was told by reputable trainer. Everyone has their own opinions i guess.

There was line line of red (not all) some years back that threw dogs of very questionable temperament, that became dangerous and were PTS and so the colour got some real bad press for a while.

Yeah the one i heard abt got pts :( It tried multiple times to attack the baby and i think ended up biting the mother :( Could well of been one of these dogs.

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I know both hazel and brown are accepted eye colours, but in terms of frequency, are chocolates prone to having lighter coloured eyes? I don't know if it's lighting, coat contrast, coincidence or what, but many of the chocolates I've seen in photos (I've only met a couple in person) appear to have hazel (and sometime even fairer shades than that) eyes.

Most chocolate have hazel eyes. Like coat colour this varies from light hazel to dark (almost light brown). Like coat colour, darker is mroe desirable in the show ring.

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To me there is a genetic marker with this colour they tend to be more so crazy then your average lab.. As discussed there is a reason why guide dogs don't have them in the mix.. I loved the boy I was showing but never again would I go chocolate..

Sorry smisch, but that's bollocks!!!!!!!

DID ANYONE SEE THE TO ME!!! Mentioned in that sentence I never said it was true but from discussions round the ring and with a few other people and meeting other over a number of years that was my own personsl conclusion, my aunt had bred and been involved wirg labs for a number of years and i had never seen the behaviours associated with the yellows but as I said it was TO ME.. And before anyone asks yes she was a registered breeder only ever had 2 litters as she didn't end up getting a bitch from either to continue her line by which time she decided there were enough people to breed labs so she stopped..

Like I said jmho about what I think.

With all due respect, the claim "to me there is a genetic marker with this colour they tend to be more crazy than your average lab" is your opinion; as you have suggested.

However, you used "as discussed there is a reason why guide dogs don't have them in the mix" as supporting evidence to your "to me" claim. The supporting evidence was not presented as 'in your experience' or 'i think that's why guide dogs don't have them...'; the evidence was presented as factual using the guide dogs as the key supporting fact.

Additionally, the supporting evidence presented as factual isn't factual.

I'm not being a smart ass; merely attempting to give you some understanding of why myself and others refuted your claim. :) Perhaps what you originally communicated was not what you actually meant to convey?

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I can't see how colour could affect temperament? It doesn't seem logical..... Does anyone have evidence or research to show there is something to this?

I have not been able to find any evidence of this and i have not seen this for myself.

Probably years ago when they where not very popular there where a few badly bred silly labs and then people have generalised this to all chocolates.

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Also not an expert but 2 chocs can produce lovely chocs if they dont carry the yellow gene. If they carry the black gene thats fine. It all depends on what colour the parents carry, my yellow boy has a chocolate mum and yellow dad, dad only carries yellow, mum carries yellow, choc and black but because dad only carries yellow none of the pups were choc, they had 2 yellows and 5 black babies, all beautiful :)

You can get some lovely choc labs but i have only ever seen 1 who i think is outstanding, in real life of course, seen many beauties on the net but i prefer the yellow and black labs myself, probably wouldnt get another yellow due to the shedding, they def shed more!!

Sorry MG, but you post totally confused me

Your yellow boy has a choc mum, and yellow dad...from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene, they're homozygous for yellow, mum is chocolate, but can carry yellow yes, but with black being dominant it can't be a carried trait, if a dominant trait is there then it must expressed...from what I can see, mum is heterozygous for chocolate/yellow...so where does the black come from?

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm probably using the wrong alleles here but I don't care)

y-yellow

c-chocolate

B-black

Dad=yy

Mum=Cy

So the possibilities for puppies are

Cy, Cy, yC, yy, or in other words, 25% chance of a yellow pup, and 75% chance of heterozygous chocolate pups (carries a yellow gene)

From a heterozygous chocolate mum, the only way to get black puppies is for dad to be heterozygous black (By) so he carries a yellow gene, this gives a 25% chance of either yellow or heterozygous chocolate, and 50% chance of heterozygous black (BC, Cy, By, yy)

Edited by GoldenGirl85
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Also not an expert but 2 chocs can produce lovely chocs if they dont carry the yellow gene. If they carry the black gene thats fine. It all depends on what colour the parents carry, my yellow boy has a chocolate mum and yellow dad, dad only carries yellow, mum carries yellow, choc and black but because dad only carries yellow none of the pups were choc, they had 2 yellows and 5 black babies, all beautiful :)

You can get some lovely choc labs but i have only ever seen 1 who i think is outstanding, in real life of course, seen many beauties on the net but i prefer the yellow and black labs myself, probably wouldnt get another yellow due to the shedding, they def shed more!!

Sorry MG, but you post totally confused me

Your yellow boy has a choc mum, and yellow dad...from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene, they're homozygous for yellow, mum is chocolate, but can carry yellow yes, but with black being dominant it can't be a carried trait, if a dominant trait is there then it must expressed...from what I can see, mum is heterozygous for chocolate/yellow...so where does the black come from?

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm probably using the wrong alleles here but I don't care)

y-yellow

c-chocolate

B-black

Dad=yy

Mum=Cy

So the possibilities for puppies are

Cy, Cy, yC, yy, or in other words, 25% chance of a yellow pup, and 75% chance of heterozygous chocolate pups (carries a yellow gene)

From a heterozygous chocolate mum, the only way to get black puppies is for dad to be heterozygous black (By) so he carries a yellow gene, this gives a 25% chance of either yellow or heterozygous chocolate, and 50% chance of heterozygous black (BC, Cy, By, yy)

Bring on the biology class Kylie lol :p you now have effectively confused the crap outa me.. This is why whenever I look at colours I just look in the lines and go well he was black and he had orange and purple parents lol so possibility of duh... That's my theory and I'm sticking to it lol :p don't tell me otherwise

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From my understanding, chocs can't carry black. They can only carry yellow. MG's pup was most likely from a Eebb to eeBB mating (choc carrying yellow, and a yellow).

Or something like that laugh.gif

Yes, that is what MG said, but there was black puppies, I'm wondering where the black gene came from, because as someone said in this thread, its dominant, so it can't be carried by any colour other than black

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Also not an expert but 2 chocs can produce lovely chocs if they dont carry the yellow gene. If they carry the black gene thats fine. It all depends on what colour the parents carry, my yellow boy has a chocolate mum and yellow dad, dad only carries yellow, mum carries yellow, choc and black but because dad only carries yellow none of the pups were choc, they had 2 yellows and 5 black babies, all beautiful :)

You can get some lovely choc labs but i have only ever seen 1 who i think is outstanding, in real life of course, seen many beauties on the net but i prefer the yellow and black labs myself, probably wouldnt get another yellow due to the shedding, they def shed more!!

Sorry MG, but you post totally confused me

Your yellow boy has a choc mum, and yellow dad...from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene, they're homozygous for yellow, mum is chocolate, but can carry yellow yes, but with black being dominant it can't be a carried trait, if a dominant trait is there then it must expressed...from what I can see, mum is heterozygous for chocolate/yellow...so where does the black come from?

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm probably using the wrong alleles here but I don't care)

y-yellow

c-chocolate

B-black

Dad=yy

Mum=Cy

So the possibilities for puppies are

Cy, Cy, yC, yy, or in other words, 25% chance of a yellow pup, and 75% chance of heterozygous chocolate pups (carries a yellow gene)

From a heterozygous chocolate mum, the only way to get black puppies is for dad to be heterozygous black (By) so he carries a yellow gene, this gives a 25% chance of either yellow or heterozygous chocolate, and 50% chance of heterozygous black (BC, Cy, By, yy)

Bring on the biology class Kylie lol :p you now have effectively confused the crap outa me.. This is why whenever I look at colours I just look in the lines and go well he was black and he had orange and purple parents lol so possibility of duh... That's my theory and I'm sticking to it lol :p don't tell me otherwise

*raises right hand*

Hi, I'm Kylie and I'm a genetics geek

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from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene,

They can carry the choc gene. But if you mate 2 yellows together, regardless of what they carry, you will always only get yellow pups.

I don't see how that is possible, if mating two yellows is guaranteed yellow, then it must be recessive...if they can carry chocolate, and mating two yellows that both carry chocolate, then there would still be a chance of chocolate pups

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from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene,

They can carry the choc gene. But if you mate 2 yellows together, regardless of what they carry, you will always only get yellow pups.

I don't see how that is possible, if mating two yellows is guaranteed yellow, then it must be recessive...if they can carry chocolate, and mating two yellows that both carry chocolate, then there would still be a chance of chocolate pups

I can't comment on the why's as even though I find genetics really interesting, I haven't studied it past a unit in year 11 human biology :laugh:

But, Yellow who carries Choc. to a Yellow who carries Choc = 25% Yy, 50% Yc, and 25% NBP

They will all be yellow, but statistically half of them will carry the choc gene, 25% will not, and 25% of them will not have any black pigment (which is an undesirable trait in Labs).

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from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene,

They can carry the choc gene. But if you mate 2 yellows together, regardless of what they carry, you will always only get yellow pups.

I don't see how that is possible, if mating two yellows is guaranteed yellow, then it must be recessive...if they can carry chocolate, and mating two yellows that both carry chocolate, then there would still be a chance of chocolate pups

You would think - but not. Check this out link

Breeding 2 yellows, will always breed yellows. The only thing that varies is the recessive, which is dependent on the partents.

I think it is all very interesting. :D

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from my understanding yellow is recessive, so they can't 'carry' another gene,

They can carry the choc gene. But if you mate 2 yellows together, regardless of what they carry, you will always only get yellow pups.

I don't see how that is possible, if mating two yellows is guaranteed yellow, then it must be recessive...if they can carry chocolate, and mating two yellows that both carry chocolate, then there would still be a chance of chocolate pups

You would think - but not. Check this out link

Breeding 2 yellows, will always breed yellows. The only thing that varies is the recessive, which is dependent on the partents.

I think it is all very interesting. :D

Very interesting...however it doesn't give an explanation for the example MG gave of her pup...choc mum and yellow dad, yet most of the litter was black

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Also not an expert but 2 chocs can produce lovely chocs if they dont carry the yellow gene. If they carry the black gene thats fine. It all depends on what colour the parents carry, my yellow boy has a chocolate mum and yellow dad, dad only carries yellow, mum carries yellow, choc and black but because dad only carries yellow none of the pups were choc, they had 2 yellows and 5 black babies, all beautiful :)

You can get some lovely choc labs but i have only ever seen 1 who i think is outstanding, in real life of course, seen many beauties on the net but i prefer the yellow and black labs myself, probably wouldnt get another yellow due to the shedding, they def shed more!!

Chocolates are a bit different to yellow and blacks, who can carry any colour gene. A chocolate can only carry yellow - not black.

This yellow recessive gene only impacts if both parent have the gene. However, even from this mating you can still get lovely dark puppies. See this boy is from parent with yellow recessive and had some yellow litter mates.

Sorry but that is wrong otherwise their would have not been any black pups in my pups litter as the dad only carries yellow lines mum was choc.

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MG check out the link buddy1 posted (I am often there reading it as I find it fascinating). Chocs cannot "carry" black. I also still don't see how blacks come about, but it is true :) This is more than likely the combination that produced your boy's litter: http://www.blueknigh...color/cy-y.html

This combination is facinating!!! Who would have thought this was possible.

To me there is no logic with labrador colour genetic, this is why I always go to this website. There are other sites like this if you do a google search.

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