Podengo Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Could it be a teething thing at that age? We didn't tug much until Ziva got her full adult teeth. That's what I wonder... I've never tugged with a puppy this young, wonder if it's something she will just get over once she is done teething? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lablover Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Kavik and others, Working lab trainers and breeders for sniffer programs enjoy dogs who carry items? Do your dogs carry items,A LOT??? Do your dogs play tug together? My lab does all of this. LOVES carrying around items in her mouth, loves playing tug with other dogs and myself. She actually really loves to be chased carrying a toy. She will bring me a toy/sock/stick (whatever naughtiness she can find lol) and try to initiate a game of tug by shoving the item in my lap, near my hand etc. But I would say she prefers food over tugging. She is food obsessed. Can you train that out of labs :laugh: Hey PM the pedigree, from the photos, she does not look show/bench bred. BTW, I always say, a labrador needs to be dead at least a month, before they realise they cannot eat. That is, except my American field bred labrador. He is Mr Fussy and a slow eater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 @ Aussielover - just saw an article in thw January Clean Run mag which might be of interest to you - on equalising the value of food and tugging - had some interesting exercises. I always say, a labrador needs to be dead at least a month, before they realise they cannot eat - :laugh: Lablover - that's awful - but very, very funny. It's a bitlike the old Viszla joke - when will my Viszla calm down - answee: about 4 hours before he dies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussielover Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Where do you get the magazine from Tassie? I don't have Mindy's pedigree (I've had a bit of trouble getting hold of it and kind of given up) but she is guide dog bred, not show bred. However, she is not a "field bred" lab as such (although I would love to have a true field lab one day!!!) She is not as bad with food as some of the labs I know (although that may be due to lack of training) and she doesn't eat rabbits or birds she catches- I'm not sure if she actually realises she can eat them though :laugh: She usually just parades around with them which is a little disturbing and embarrassing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I get the Clean Run mag on subscription from www.cleanrun.com - you can get print or digital. But ask around people at your club who do agility - someone will have it. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Kavik, I went to Mia Skosgar's (sp) seminar last weekend and she actively encourages her dogs to do a victory lap and be proud that they won (she doesn't allow chewing though as it doesn't promote a good grip). She does tug on lead though and then goes up to them and starts tugging again. I didn't get to ask her what she would do for a dog that had already learnt to do a victory lap and then give you the finger. It seems that they value the tug over tugging with you. Greg Derrett said he trained brining the tug back buy sitting with his feet touching a wall, dog between his legs and tugged. When the dog won it would automatically bounce back to him. I would imagine that this would only work with a high drive dog with strong nerves so that the impact of the wall wouldn't put them off tugging. I asked him what he would do about the victory laps and chewing issue and he said he'd always make sure that the tug was attached to something that he could reel in. He also said that if there is something that they do bring back (eg ball), attach it to a rope and tug with that. My boy had been tugging with an injury (unbeknownst to me) and he has gone froma tug demon to "meh" about the tug so once he has fully recovered we're going to have to rediscover the fun of tug, as I think he might have a negative association with it at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Hi megan I've been through the tugging with unknown injury Luckily we got back tugging again after! Was Greg talking about puppies or adult dogs with bad habits? I think that would be more difficult with a dog with keep away habits already. But not a bad idea to limit their space. I don't think Kaos would be happy about tugging in such a confined area though. He won't tug on his favourite squeaky toy. I did manage to get him tugging around his favourite squeaky this morning! So progress is happening. Retrieve . . . working on it. At least he isn't actively putting on the brakes like he did at the start, he is trotting up but still not sure about coming right up close to me to give it to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Does the Michael Ellis tugging DVD cover the retrieve? I really need it for agility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 Yes the Michael Ellis tug DVD covers the retrieve as part of the tugging game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) perfect - it is an area we need to work on and it is soo handy in agility, but no one can tell me how to train it. I've ordered the DVD, and some more tugs.... ETA: To answer your question, Greg said that was for puppies, but it could be used on adult dogs. I think the dog would need to be pretty small and very focused on the tug though. Edited February 2, 2012 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Got him tugging around his food bowl with his treat bag in it (did have an initial DWDH but worked through it quite quickly), and by using the Recallers game PB&J got him tugging outside the front gate, kept him engaged and another PB&J to come back into the yard Edited February 2, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Lia, are also tugging with him just for fun? Or is every session planned & measurable in terms of distractions? I was playing with Fly yesterday & it made me aware of something that I wanted to share: Despite my resolve not to have another ball obsessed dog, Fly is possibly MORE ball obsessed than either Trim or Shine already Yesterday I was having a game of tug with her & decided that I better check she would still choose to play with me with distraction of a ball. She passed the test each time, but I did notice that my demeanor changed while I was testing her. It's hard to explain, but I became focussed in play, rather than reckless in play like I usually am. I noticed the same thing when I was mucking around with tugging technique last year. I am sure that the reason all my dogs tug so well is that I truly enjoy it and can lose myself in the game without effort. Once I am focussed on technique or testing, I seem to put more control & effort in, so I am careful to balance these sessions out with the free for all that both I & my dogs enjoy the most. Hope this wasn't too rambly & makes sense. Edited February 2, 2012 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) I understand what you are saying vickie :) yes we do some sessions which are just fun - I always intersperse something in it - like some chase me games, which we both like. I always try to keep it light, and start every session with just some fun stuff. I do decide before I start the session what we will cover in it - whether it will have distractions and which ones, which games we will play. I tend to put distractions in the session I know he will be the most keen for so most likely to have success (morning). I only use the tug for simple stuff at the moment - working on tug itself, some of the Recallers chasing games (PB&J, Game of Deke), little bit of circle work which he likes as it is chase based. ETA: You like your ball obsessed doggies :laugh: Do you use the ball just for fun stuff or do you use it in training? Edited February 2, 2012 by Kavik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vickie Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) ETA: You like your ball obsessed doggies :laugh: Do you use the ball just for fun stuff or do you use it in training? Not much in training. Mostly I use the ball as its a good way to exercise all my dogs at once. The obsession is an added bonus Edited February 2, 2012 by Vickie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 New development... humping the tug toy! If she can get some of it between her front paws she tugs and humps haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasha Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 Kavik, I agree with what Vickie is saying. Just be spontaneous with him. I really cringe at your answer of things are not always structured and measured but you still refer each tug game as part of a session.!! Do you ever just for no reason, engage in a game even though it wasn't a planned session. I know sometimes for me if I am hanging my clothes on the line and one of my dogs are there watching, in a short time, I may be playing tug with a sock while "pretending" i didn't want to . So I dangle it in front then when they look, flick it away, then drop it and pretend you didn't want to etc. Or I may be just tidying up and see something that could be played with, so I may end up on floor rolling round with a dog or 2 trying to stop them getting it. The more you make them think its not for them, they want it more. I may pick up a rock and carry it gently like a baby animal in my hands and pretend to introduce it to them. I talk really carefully to them like its very precious and then when they try to poke their nose in, I move it away and pretend to talk to it. (Yes I am crazy BTW) but it makes them SO keen and interested as soon as I pick something up. Vary it each time so its interesting. Mine will play with anything you have. If I found a shoelace, that can be played with. Or a bottle top....... Anything has possibilities...... its how you use it. You don't really need to increase his drive as such, you need to channel it towards something you have so that nothing else matters cause it will be fun. If anyone has a playful interactive dog that likes to tug but the dog gives up, I would say the game isn't fun enough for what the dogs want. If he can make it more fun by running of with it, he will. If you can build his desire to want whatever you have, then you shouldn't need to focus on distraction training as he shouldn't even notice things other than you and what you might have. He shouldn't even notice you going from the back yard to the front yard past his food bowl/bag etc. If he will not get that desire to pass up the food then you know what is more value to him and thats food. Use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ness Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 dasha you sound like me and I have had my youngster out indefinitely on no training sessions and its been just as hard on me because of all the inadvertent interactions I have that normally would end up in a game of something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 3, 2012 Author Share Posted February 3, 2012 Kavik, I agree with what Vickie is saying. Just be spontaneous with him. I really cringe at your answer of things are not always structured and measured but you still refer each tug game as part of a session.!! Do you ever just for no reason, engage in a game even though it wasn't a planned session. I know sometimes for me if I am hanging my clothes on the line and one of my dogs are there watching, in a short time, I may be playing tug with a sock while "pretending" i didn't want to . So I dangle it in front then when they look, flick it away, then drop it and pretend you didn't want to etc. Or I may be just tidying up and see something that could be played with, so I may end up on floor rolling round with a dog or 2 trying to stop them getting it. The more you make them think its not for them, they want it more. I may pick up a rock and carry it gently like a baby animal in my hands and pretend to introduce it to them. I talk really carefully to them like its very precious and then when they try to poke their nose in, I move it away and pretend to talk to it. (Yes I am crazy BTW) but it makes them SO keen and interested as soon as I pick something up. Vary it each time so its interesting. Mine will play with anything you have. If I found a shoelace, that can be played with. Or a bottle top....... Anything has possibilities...... its how you use it. You don't really need to increase his drive as such, you need to channel it towards something you have so that nothing else matters cause it will be fun. If anyone has a playful interactive dog that likes to tug but the dog gives up, I would say the game isn't fun enough for what the dogs want. If he can make it more fun by running of with it, he will. If you can build his desire to want whatever you have, then you shouldn't need to focus on distraction training as he shouldn't even notice things other than you and what you might have. He shouldn't even notice you going from the back yard to the front yard past his food bowl/bag etc. If he will not get that desire to pass up the food then you know what is more value to him and thats food. Use it. Sure, if he is keen and I am doing the washing and he is being cheeky and silly I will do some tug with him, but since he does have a history of playing keep away with the toy I have him on a leash when tugging so it can't be completely spontaneous with anything at hand. And I don't like to do tug with all the dogs around at once in case it causes a problem by arousing the other dogs too much and I can't concentrate on the dog I am working with. And yes I do like to plan my training sessions, don't think there is anything wrong with that Being spontaneous is sometimes difficult with little kids :laugh: and I do better when I have a plan and a purpose. And I reckon if even great trainers like SG have DWDH moments with their dogs with tugging, and have to work through distractions, tugging around food and other toys etc (and we have seen video clips showing this does happen with her dogs and her top instructors dogs), then it is not surprising that I will have some moments too. Better even, as it means it is possible to work through it and it doesn't mean my dog is 'broken', lacks drive, or that I am a hopeless trainer, or not fun enough with my tugging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zug Zug Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 This has been an interesting thread. I've only read bits of it but am just starting to teach my new puppy to tug. He enjoys it. At 13 weeks his tugging is not overly strong, but he is enthusiastic which is a start. Food is top of his motivational wish-list though - and he is very happy at this stage to give his toy up for even the most unexciting of tidbits (dry dog food in this case). He's growing very fast at the moment, and seems to place food above all things. Which is fine, because I'm happy to train with food as well. I just need to keep the nicer, juicier food out of the way when I want him to tug. He also likes to 'help' me get clothes off the line, but I am discouraging this. I had a dog once who ate hundreds and hundreds of dollars of clothes off the line. Hoping not to repeat that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Was looking on Clean Run and on their section on coming soon it has all 3 of Michael Ellis's Building Drive and Focus series! I don't think I've ever seen anything from Leerburg on there before! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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