espinay2 Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I am not 'having a go' with this comment as it is true, but i was looking at a rescue site the other day and there was a dog in the pound on death row and they even stated what his kennel name was on his papers that they had! This 'ethical' registed breeder obviously just didn't give a s^&t that one of her pups was going to die in a pound Being a country person i am sick of ppl just assuming what they percieve as byb as the only ppl who allow this to happen. I know many ppl who bred their working dogs purely for that sake and made sure they knew where their pups were going and how they were going to be treated. Just because they are not registered or show dogs doesn't make these ppl automatically bad. This is a MASSIVE assumption. The person who surrendered the dog may have handed over the papers. This breeder could have died, had a serious health issue, moved away, changed contact details and not been contacted and advised that the dog was in a pound etc etc. Fair enough, but that was not the only dog who was there with their papers ect, they can't ALL have died, had health issues ect, and even if this was the case, if it was one of the pups i bred i would still leave details to forward to another responsible person so none of my pups ended up with this fate. I just personally think many breeders want to offlay all the blame on so called byb when they can just as easily contribute to the overpopulation of dogs further down the line (as i also stated in a previous post). The mentality in this post quite honestly is shocking. There is a way of getting a message across... After this response the OP may be more likely to go to a byb for dogs and advice given the response by registered breeders here While there are many good rescue organisations/pounds etc that will work with breeders and breed rescue etc, unfortunately some rescues ect also refuse to let the breeder have the dog back, even if they beg and the only person a council pound will often contact is the council licenced (legal) owner (and if the owner is the one doing the surrendering, they are under no legal obligation to contact anyone and often wont). Yes, not all registered breeders are created equal, but you are jumping to some pretty big conclusions it seems without having all the facts. Edited January 20, 2012 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everythings Shiny Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 To the OP I would personally walk away. My last dog was a failed foster. Maybe look into fostering, you can help staffy's and maybe you'll find the 'right' one for you. Thats what happened with Serenity-Jayne and I. She's my gorgeous little trouble maker. There are so many nice staffy's in the shelters and pounds at any one time. Or you could look into adopting from a rescue that has staffy's. There are options out there :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 Okay mate you are quite a righteous man and i did ask her when she said no I was fine with it and understood this is my first time owning a purebred, and i very much so confused when hit with these propositions as i dont want to show or breed at all i love my pets. Simple as that so when she offered this and i would only own 90% of my new companion i did no like it okay so. Thanks for your input I better understand, the basics ... fine by me i only ever wanted him in our family none of theses things had crossed my mind Yes it did. You then obviously told her about you wanting to breed him after she put conditions on the dog. You are paying for a pedigree dog which is someones pride and joy, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears attached to the kennel name. Most STAFFORDSHIRE BULL TERRIER breeders will not want their dogs pimped to within an inch of their lives by unregistered breeders - it's all too common just look at the local paper. It makes them and their dogs look very bad. Then the breeder comes at me with ill take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash......when i said im not comfortable she said she would give me my money back.... is it because im a single mum (who is very awesome with dogs) or am i being manipulated the whole scene is doing my head in please tell me what yall think bout this.....Thanks Maybe the breeder is trying to help you at least do things responsibly since you want to breed the dog and show you what should be done when breeding dogs. If you want it bred then show it, make sure it is a good enough example of the breed and that breeders will want to use it for a good reason. I would have refunded your money too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LizT Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) I asked the seller if she would do it have all the pups except one when me boy turned 5/6 yrs when she said no it was over...but i am new to this kind of thing another breeder did not want to sell me a pup but an already over bred dog with similar conditions now that i know this is not unusual i am fine with it so yeah thanks. 1. She said she would sell you a dog with Limited Registration...... Normal 2. Pup was turning out better than she expected.......offered you a discount for co- ownership...nothing too sinister. What would you 'carry on his line with' in regards to a female dog? So ChattyKathy, what is it that you are actually looking for? A family pet, or are you interested in becoming a breeder and showing dogs? Or was the "maybe keeping him entire to breed at 5/6 years of age" just a whim, that you have since thought through better? If this is your very first time owning a Purebred I can understand you thinking, wait a minute I've got a purebred that I've paid for why can't I breed him down the track, but seriously, you would be better off desexing a male if you have had little experience with the breed and leave keeping an entire to the experts. Get some experience with the breed as a pet and enjoy him as that. :) Edited January 20, 2012 by LizT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I am not 'having a go' with this comment as it is true, but i was looking at a rescue site the other day and there was a dog in the pound on death row and they even stated what his kennel name was on his papers that they had! This 'ethical' registed breeder obviously just didn't give a s^&t that one of her pups was going to die in a pound Being a country person i am sick of ppl just assuming what they percieve as byb as the only ppl who allow this to happen. I know many ppl who bred their working dogs purely for that sake and made sure they knew where their pups were going and how they were going to be treated. Just because they are not registered or show dogs doesn't make these ppl automatically bad. This is a MASSIVE assumption. The person who surrendered the dog may have handed over the papers. This breeder could have died, had a serious health issue, moved away, changed contact details and not been contacted and advised that the dog was in a pound etc etc. Fair enough, but that was not the only dog who was there with their papers ect, they can't ALL have died, had health issues ect, and even if this was the case, if it was one of the pups i bred i would still leave details to forward to another responsible person so none of my pups ended up with this fate. I just personally think many breeders want to offlay all the blame on so called byb when they can just as easily contribute to the overpopulation of dogs further down the line (as i also stated in a previous post). The mentality in this post quite honestly is shocking. There is a way of getting a message across... After this response the OP may be more likely to go to a byb for dogs and advice given the response by registered breeders here While there are many good rescue organisations/pounds etc that will work with breeders and breed rescue etc, unfortunately some rescues ect also refuse to let the breeder have the dog back, even if they beg and the only person a council pound will often contact is the council licenced (legal) owner (and if the owner is the one doing the surrendering, they are under no legal obligation to contact anyone and often wont). Yes, not all registered breeders are created equal, but you are jumping to some pretty big conclusions it seems without having all the facts. Well there was more then one on there that stated they had their papers, site was Pet Rescue, if they don't allow breeders to have have their dogs back then yes thats awful, i would much rather rehome one of my own dogs then any resuce simply because it was one of my dogs, but if they do allow breeders to collect, then i still have my own personal opinion on the matter :) The point i was making is that most ppl here just want to blame byb for the overpopulation and blantantly refuse to accept that there are still quite a few 'registered breeders' who contribute to the problem also. And no i am not a byb lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 No I do not wish to show or breed at all this is why I was confused with the offer......and felt like I was being manipulated I better understand now how the whole scene goes, I simply asked if at all possible when he was around 5/6 years if i could get a pup from him to keep in our family..... I think it is you that is trying to manipulate the situation. You want a pet, you agree to get a pet. Then you change your mind and want to show and breed....if I was the breeder I would have walked away from you then and there. But she agreed with conditions, and still you are not happy... Make sure you stick to what you want before buying another puppy....saves the breeder pulling out and possibly warning other breeders not to deal with you. It has nothing to do with you being single....its your chopping and changing your mind, and not knowing what you want that stopped the sale of the puppy. Lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I do not wish to breed this is why I asked the breeder if she would when he was 5/6 years i simply wanted a pup as he got older and got confused when she offered me this propsition as I told her I did not want to show or breed. Okay and I did not realise this is normal practice. Thank you for your reply. First of all , not "English" staffys. The reason poeple here may come over as harsh is because the majority of dogs in the pound, who die are staffys, bred by people who "want a pup for the kids to see", 'think my dog is awesome so should have a litter". etc etc. If you don't know the right name for the breed do you know what is a good speciman of the breed ? Can you pick a perfect match to breed with? Are you going to be responsible for all the pups you breed , then they go onto breed? Or are you fine with churning out pups who one day might die scared in a cage at the pound, go visit one and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tralee Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) 1. She said she would sell you a dog with Limited Registration...... Normal 2. Pup was turning out better than she expected.......offered you a discount for co- ownership...nothing too sinister. I asked the seller if she would do it have all the pups except one when me boy turned 5/6 yrs when she said no it was over...but i am new to this kind of thing another breeder did not want to sell me a pup but an already over bred dog with similar conditions now that i know this is not unusual i am fine with it so yeah thanks. What would you 'carry on his line with' in regards to a female dog? If my Babel fish is working correctly, you wanted to keep one of the puppies from a litter when the dog was 5 or 6. The breeder said no. Well, that's usually between you and the owner of the Dam. Another breeder wanted to sell you an older dog, an expeienced stud dog, but wasn't going to allow you to keep a pup from your own litter either. So now you think that all this is normal practice. It isn't It seems to me that you want a puppy and can wait 5 or 6 years but you also want to breed it yourself. Lastly, on this forum, you need to couch your comments in a much less "breeder bashing" fashion. This is a 'help' forum so if you still want a puppy, then get one without conditions attached. However, wanting a dog so that you can have one puppy in a few years time as an added extra is the wrong reason to be putting to responsible dog owners and ethical breeders. Good Luck Px Edited January 21, 2012 by Tralee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 All I wanted from the process which i wanted the breeder to be fully in control of was a puppy as he got older, I did not realise it would be such a drama. And I most definitely am not a fibber....hence being confused when offered this proposition as I did not want to breed or show. Thank you. I think people need to realise that saying 'I dont want to breed' and 'oh we'll only have one litter from him/her' do not mean the same thing. I dont want to breed means chip chop, no chance ever. One litter is still breeding. You just come across as a fibber really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 I wanted the breeder to be in full control of it. Im sorry, but did you just say you wanted a pup out of him?? you come on a forum that supports the practice of ethical breeding and does not support the practice of BYB and you just pretty much admitted that you want to breed a dog without being a breeder yourself or have any experience in ethical breeding. Second of all you are contradicting the "not showing him or breeding him fine by me i only ever wanted him in our family none of these things had crossed my mind"... If you want to carry the line let the breeder do it, but after this statement I will be surprised if the breeder even sells you a pup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teebs Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 maybe ask her if she is keeping any of his brothers or sisters to use later one? that way you get your puppy, get him desexed and love him and when you are ready for a new pet you can find something related? :) I have a SBT and she is the best dog, never once thought about breeding her, i have helped raise litters from friends (reg breeds, dont stress everyone!) and it is HARD work. i would never want to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
german_shep_fan Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 If my Babel fish is working correctly, you wanted to keep one of the puppies from a litter when the dog was 5 or 6. The breeder said no. Well, that's usually between you and the owner of the Dam. Another breeder wanted to sell you an older dog, an expeienced stud dog, but wasn't going to allow you to keep a pup. So now you think that all this is normal practice. It isn't It seems to me that you want a puppy and can wait 5 or 6 years but you also want to breed it yourself. Lastly, on this forum, you need to couch your comments in a much less "breeder bashing" fashion. This is a 'help' forum so if you still want a puppy, then get one without conditions attached. However, wanting a dog so that you can have one puppy in a few years time as an added extra is the wrong reason to be putting to responsible dog owners. Good Luck Px Yes because heaps of posters that replied to the newbie were so friendly and understanding towards someone who is new to the world of breeding and showing and how it works ;) She stated she was confused and didn't understand the offer being put to her, i hardly think that is breeder bashing :) If i were the OP i would be walking away with a very bitter taste in my mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Chatty Kathy ... Staffies left entire are unfortunately can be attractive to puppyfarmers and those doing illegal dogfights..and when you get your boy, desexing would be a wise move , I M O . I hope you find a lovely dog - :) If you ask on here there are reliable rescue people who may be able to help match you to a boy needing a home . That way , you get your dog, who will have all his vet work done , and have support . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 and this all i really wanted to know is it normal so thank you so further on i thought hang on what am i paying for papers for if i can not atleast get a pup from him when he is 5 /6 years old Papers confirm you are getting a purebreed. You are not paying for papers in case you want to breed. Most puppies are sold as pets and sold on limited register (no showing or breeding). What the breeder offered seems pretty normal to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I thought about a rescue dog, but i have a young family and would not be comfortable with a dog i did not know or own myself...so it did cross my mind. Chatty Kathy ... Staffies left entire are unfortunately can be attractive to puppyfarmers and those doing illegal dogfights..and when you get your boy, desexing would be a wise move , I M O . I hope you find a lovely dog - :) If you ask on here there are reliable rescue people who may be able to help match you to a boy needing a home . That way , you get your dog, who will have all his vet work done , and have support . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlemum Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 1. She said she would sell you a dog with Limited Registration...... Normal 2. Pup was turning out better than she expected.......offered you a discount for co- ownership...nothing too sinister. I asked the seller if she would do it have all the pups except one when me boy turned 5/6 yrs when she said no it was over...but i am new to this kind of thing another breeder did not want to sell me a pup but an already over bred dog with similar conditions now that i know this is not unusual i am fine with it so yeah thanks. What would you 'carry on his line with' in regards to a female dog? If my Babel fish is working correctly, you wanted to keep one of the puppies from a litter when the dog was 5 or 6. The breeder said no. Well, that's usually between you and the owner of the Dam. Another breeder wanted to sell you an older dog, an expeienced stud dog, but wasn't going to allow you to keep a pup from your own litter either. So now you think that all this is normal practice. It isn't It seems to me that you want a puppy and can wait 5 or 6 years but you also want to breed it yourself. Lastly, on this forum, you need to couch your comments in a much less "breeder bashing" fashion. This is a 'help' forum so if you still want a puppy, then get one without conditions attached. However, wanting a dog so that you can have one puppy in a few years time as an added extra is the wrong reason to be putting to responsible dog owners and ethical breeders. Good Luck Px Love it! Find your signature interesting - I've always pronounced the name Mah REM ah & now I know the correct pronunciation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Umm yes i did know all these things hence asking the breeder to be in full control of the situation......so and read the topic properly I do not wish to breed I have done enough breeding of my own, without extras okay. Thank you. you do know there are several health tests you need to do before breeding from your boy, you do know if you refuse to do such health tests and he sires a pup that is affected then you are liable and can be sued. You must know these things because you are awesome. :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Okay, you are getting a puppy from a breeder. Later, when the dog is older, and if the dog is bred from by the breeder, you'd like one of those puppies. Is that the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 There is more to take into consideration than just your heart when owning a pet....or I would have owned a dog in my gypsy years...but did not because i was up and travelling alot hence the term executive decision. Yes I am kinda getting the whole viral thing I thought this was a forum u could get healthy advise and i thought i had mentioned i was new to this so......... Thanks for your reply. Hi Folks, I need to vent and know if the following is not a one off, my favourite breed of dog is the english staffy....so I made an executive decision to pay the usual 1400 or so for my dream dog purebred etc......when i came across a litter and the registered breeder agreed to sell a pup to me but only on the conditions of not showing him or breeding him fine by me i only ever wanted him in our family none of theses things had crossed my mind ....so further on i thought hang on what am i paying for papers for if i can not atleast get a pup from him when he is 5 /6 years old so as to continue his line in our family, i regretted not doing this with our last dog, i was told no....ok fine whatever just have to enjoy our new member. Then the breeder comes at me with ill take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash......when i said im not comfortable she said she would give me my money back.... is it because im a single mum (who is very awesome with dogs) or am i being manipulated the whole scene is doing my head in please tell me what yall think bout this.....Thanks How is getting a puppy an executive decision? A decision like that comes from the heart and the authority remains with the breeder. A pedigree dog on the Limited register can be moved to the Main register at a later time. So, you might have jumped the gun here. It is not uncommon for new pedigree dog owners to consider showing and ultimately breeding. And, if you can rise to the challenge and fulfil the requirements then you have every right to do so. I would have shut down the transaction with the breeder at I'll take 300 off the price if i can show him under her name, and he can sire, everytime he sires she will give me 100 cash but it is easy to judge in hindsight. I don't think it has anything to do with you being a single mum, either do I think you are being manipulated. Just a sloppy breeder in this case and I am sorry that, in your very first post, you didn't get the help you asked for before now. I also think it is important to remember the purpose of the forum and to consider too the consequences of meeting those who come here asking for help with less than what is expected (every post has the potential to go viral). Px Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I thought about a rescue dog, but i have a young family and would not be comfortable with a dog i did not know or own myself...so it did cross my mind. :) The reputable rescue folks know their dogs well ..and if you have little kids , then, personally an adult who is used to kids , and who doesn't need the constant supervision, the housetraining etc while trying to look out for human kids .... would be my personal choice. here is the rescue forum , if you want more info .. LINK HERE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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